The End of The 40k Universe!!!

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**garret**

The emporer will wake up and bitchslap everyone.

**Thelaugher**

I don't see any ork fans out there...personally i think they'd win.

**Beastmaster**

Probably nids, chaos, or humanity. But at this point in time, who can tell?

**Emperors Faithful**

@Tk421: A simple "Nids can't leave forever. (even off themselves" would ha ve suffuced, but yeah, it cleared things up. Ty.

**deadratman**

I am pretty positive now how the 40k univerese will end. IT WILL NEVER END!!!!! Khorne's Hate will always be felt so bye bye peace. Tzeench has some wierd plan at the moment so we say "see ya later stratedgy" on ending it.Nurgle will just set a disease on a planet and the race who owns that planet will blame the imperium that they virus-bombed the planet. And slaanesh will keep on giving pleasure to everyone and everlasting peace will be a form of pleasure so like the emperor will bann it.(Well actuall more correctly the high lords of terra will bann it.)

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Tk421 wrote:Real quick comment on theTyranid debate:

IF the Tyranids wiped out all life and were forced to cannibalism, they would only last but so long. Due to the nature of science, a perfectly efficient system that doesn't loose energy in any form is impossible to attain.

Please consider the following:

Due to the nature of Tyranid development, the Tyranid population is kept in check only by availability of resources. We can essentially compare the Tyranid to a simple slime mold. By nature, slime molds are motile colonial fungi, essentially meaning it's a bunch of little cells that can live independently but act as one entity. The colony will grow rapidly unless it encounters limiting factors, such as interspecies competition, disease, weather, and so on. In addition, slime molds are decomposers that use the matter and energy from dead/dieing matter, which is comparable to how Tyranids use biomatter to create new spawn.
If you put a slime mold in a petri-dish with x-amount of organic matter, the mold will eventually run out of resources even as the mold decomposes its old, dead parts. The system will suffer from entropy over time, as there is nothing to re-introduce energy into the system. The metabolic processes will always produce or require energy, in which a certain amount is always lost to heat. Over time, the amount of energy in the system will dwindle as the colony/hive eats up everything in sight, produces significant waste, and looses most energy through heat as time goes by.
The principle of entropy still applies in hibernation for the Tyranids, because it will still take energy and resources to maintain individuals in dormancy (because these individuals undoubtedly still have a metabolism of some sort). Essentially, the ravenous nature of the Tyranids could cause it to peter out after it hypothetically takes over galaxy/universe/whatever.

Hopefully that cleaned up a loose end or two from the Tyranid debate?

Yes so emperors faithful and myself are both right.
The tyranids would be able to get to another galaxy but at a tiny fraction of what it was due to starvation. That cleared up a few things.

**CajunMan550**

Tk421 wrote:Real quick comment on theTyranid debate:

IF the Tyranids wiped out all life and were forced to cannibalism, they would only last but so long. Due to the nature of science, a perfectly efficient system that doesn't loose energy in any form is impossible to attain.

Please consider the following:

Due to the nature of Tyranid development, the Tyranid population is kept in check only by availability of resources. We can essentially compare the Tyranid to a simple slime mold. By nature, slime molds are motile colonial fungi, essentially meaning it's a bunch of little cells that can live independently but act as one entity. The colony will grow rapidly unless it encounters limiting factors, such as interspecies competition, disease, weather, and so on. In addition, slime molds are decomposers that use the matter and energy from dead/dieing matter, which is comparable to how Tyranids use biomatter to create new spawn.
If you put a slime mold in a petri-dish with x-amount of organic matter, the mold will eventually run out of resources even as the mold decomposes its old, dead parts. The system will suffer from entropy over time, as there is nothing to re-introduce energy into the system. The metabolic processes will always produce or require energy, in which a certain amount is always lost to heat. Over time, the amount of energy in the system will dwindle as the colony/hive eats up everything in sight, produces significant waste, and looses most energy through heat as time goes by.
The principle of entropy still applies in hibernation for the Tyranids, because it will still take energy and resources to maintain individuals in dormancy (because these individuals undoubtedly still have a metabolism of some sort). Essentially, the ravenous nature of the Tyranids could cause it to peter out after it hypothetically takes over galaxy/universe/whatever.

Hopefully that cleaned up a loose end or two from the Tyranid debate?

Well tyranids arn't a mold what if they were a virus or bacteria just in highly advanced stages? There are many viruses and bacteria that can suspend themselves totally with no metabolism or anything an are eccientially are just shells floating around untill they hit matter they can feed on then BAM the come out of hibernation. The hive fleet don't have to support much because all there troops are pretty much spawned as needed the arn't a living army like IG or SMs.

**deadratman**

Though I agree with you what you said is sort of a stretch. The fact about the tyranids is that they are the embodiment of life itself. A living breathing view of evolution(though exxagerrated many times.).The constant need of change and the constant struggle to survive in a hostile world. That in my opinion is the morale of 40k.

**spartanghost**

You're all wrong.

Sly Marbo will win.

Seriously though I think the Tau just need time and will expand to become the dominant race. the Imperium is on the way out and the Tau aadvance at such a rate we coiuld expect them to surpass even the Necrons in a few short milennia. It wouldn't be easy by any stretch, but if they survive a few thousand years who knows? Also i believe the Tau were created by the eldar for the expressed purpose of being uncorruptable by Chaos and therefor a very effective weapon against them.

**CajunMan550**

The tau only advanced so far because of the warp storm humans advance just as fast as them. If the SM ever devoted a large assault at the Tau theyd wipe them out. If any race besides humans or Tyranids would win itd be Orks but thats because orks always win.

**Corpsesarefun**

The big crunch

**Emperors Faithful**

CajunMan550 wrote:The tau only advanced so far because of the warp storm humans advance just as fast as them. If the SM ever devoted a large assault at the Tau theyd wipe them out. If any race besides humans or Tyranids would win itd be Orks but thats because orks always win.

Orkses alwayz winz.
If we winz, we winz.
If we runz, we'll come back and winz sum uvver time.
If we diez, well that don't count coz we'z dead aren't we?

I can see a few flaws with this theory. Ussually dying is considered to be losing.

**spartanghost**

CajunMan550 wrote:The tau only advanced so far because of the warp storm humans advance just as fast as them. If the SM ever devoted a large assault at the Tau theyd wipe them out. If any race besides humans or Tyranids would win itd be Orks but thats because orks always win.

In 6000 years the Tau advanced from cavetau to surpassing the imperium in technology. I'm guessing it took humanity somewhere between 50,000 and 500,000 years. who's advancing faster?

**CajunMan550**

Well as far as we can tell though we don't do know how much the tau physically changed. 50k years ago were not humans. They were damn close but nothing to the people of this time. its only taken us 2000 years to go from Rome to Now. Then that's if you don't count that big clusterfeth in the middle called the dark ages haha. We humans don't do too badly.

**deadratman**

Yeah i think this cajun guys got it. Plus he is not counting the fact about the scientists today. They are making loads of projects come to life everyday!

**Tk421**

CajunMan550 wrote:
Well tyranids arn't a mold what if they were a virus or bacteria just in highly advanced stages?

That's exactly what mold is, mate. Slime mold is made of protists, which are essentially fancier cousins of bacteria.

Tyranids aren't a virus, since viruses need to inject genetic material into a host. The host eventually destroys itself, releasing more viruses. The 'nids probably have a virus arsenal of some sort, but they aren't "viruses" in of themselves.

Definitely agree with your points n the Tau.

**SonofTerra**

HMMMMM, maybe the nids are a galatic virus

injected into the host (galaxy)

Galaxy explodes into war releasing even more nids......

**Sgt. Salt**

Tau aren't even a factor. Have you seen their codex?

But seriously, the fact the Tau can't harness warp technology would make them unable to maintain a galactic empire. Without a way to communicate on such a huge scale they would have no overal leadership and they would fall apart into different warring factions. Think what happened to humanity before da empra came along.

Chaos as it is relies on the survival of humanity to maintain existance and if humanity was wiped out chaos would be to. BUT the destruction of humanity would give birth to a new God. Think the fall of the Eldar and the birth of Slannesh.

Orks are Orks. They'll just keep doin' Ork stuff till the are wiped out. They have no goals thus they cannot win.

The Tyranids and the Necrons are really the only two races to consider in the end.

**Emperors Faithful**

It is believed by Eldrad (that DICK) that when all eldar die, a new god-of-the-dead will arise and pawn slaneesh.

**Tk421**

SonofTerra wrote:HMMMMM, maybe the nids are a galatic virus

injected into the host (galaxy)

Galaxy explodes into war releasing even more nids......

Nice try. Host needs to be a living organism that has genetic material. Don't try to pull some sort of transcendental "the galaxy is living" thing. Galaxies don't have DNA codes.

**ramzca**

Personally, I would love the orksies to win but I highly doubt that they will be anything except a persistence annoyance and a bunch of scavengers/looters.

The Imperium has a 50/50 shot of winning or losing. They either deal with the Tyranid threat, beat them back and focus on the other smaller ones or die trying. Chaos, no matter what, won't go away as long as the Imperium exists.

Even if the Tyranids win, they will lose in the long run since they would've eaten all the planets/living organisms and eventually die out. Tau will probably be eliminated because, lets face it, they are phyisically capable to withstand much more fighting. Sure they're weapons will keep armies at bay for a bit, but eventually they will cease to exist either by 'Nids or the Imperium (maybe another race but I don't really know much about their confronts with them except maybe a run in or two with orks). Eldar/Dark Eldar will become less of a threat and more of a nuisance in the long wrong...

All in all, my opinion is that... you all saw this coming by my explianation of course. It's such an obvious answer if you paid attention to what I've been saying... The "winning" (for lack of a better word) race would be... *drum rolls* Necrons! They do not need a planet to stay alive (I don't think they need air...) and don't need to eat... Thus, since we still have no clue how many the Necrons have in numbers and that they are a really tough threat to deal with (at least fluff-wise) even with their (currently) low numbers... Thus, I believe in the end only the Necrons will still be around... Though, theoretically, the Tyranids or the Imperium may "win"; Necrons will still be around and have shown that they are a threat that can decimate entire planets...

**Kragura**

Well if the emprah comes back I would back the imperium but that anit happining.
orks have got a good chance of always surviving but not wiping out other empires.
Tyranids and crons have got the best chance Imo and it would probably come down to a war between these factions, of which I cant see nids winning as I think they would leave once they killed all the other races

Ultimate winnah

**Emperors Faithful**

ramzca wrote:Personally, I would love the orksies to win but I highly doubt that they will be anything except a persistence annoyance and a bunch of scavengers/looters.

See? SEE?!? This is what I've been trying to tell ALL those orky supporters! In YOR FACE Xav/ChaoticOrkz/Orkeosaurus etc!!!

**Blackclaw**

1) Necron Gods the Dragon and the uh... other guy (one is on Mars, one in a Dyson Sphere, forget where)... and Pariah program comes to fruition. Pretty well take over the galaxy, blot out all pyschic impressions and turn the Warp into pure liquid, destroying the one force that could stop them.
Off of this though, and scary prospect here, if Pariahs are the perfect symbiosis between machine and flesh.... can the Tyranids assimilate them?

2) Tyranids wipe out all bio-matter, no pyschic impressions left to maintain warp/chaos gods, no food for 'crons... game over, time to start floating the void for another galaxy to consume

3) The Emperor comes back, sets all things right yadda yadda, Humanity lives happily (if zealously) ever after

Really #3 isn't a 'Universe ending' but a way to end story.
The Chaos gods can't win because, from my understanding, they exist BECAUSE of mortal beings, niether side can 'win', because one creates the other.
The Tau just don't have the numbers to rule the galaxy (Japan in WWII, huge empire, too few people of their own)
The Eldar are smart, techy, but dieing off
The Orks are awesome, and if somehow one could unite them all... might overwhelm everyone else in sheer numbers and brutality, but would need some way to psychically link to every Ork out there (best idea, Gork and/or Mork manifest to 'Lead dah Greatest Waaaagh!')

Imperium is a stagnant, rotting from the heart outwards corpse, and without a new Emperor or some technology that radically alters their culture and/or communication/travel networks, they are at best going to persists, at worst be wiped out.

I fink anyhow

**Grimpost**

What I think would happen bassed on the way the races work with population, size, might, and will power.

Eldar get wiped out. It doesn't matter who kills them.
DE follow suit right after if not at the same time. In the same way.
Tau will get smashed by the Nids or orks.
Humanity will get snuffed out next. They will go out like they are caught between the unstoppable force and the unmovable object.
Chaos will follow humanity down the drain as the 3 remaining races have a low impact on 3 of the 4 chaos gods. There will just not be enought greed, lust, envy, or sickness in the universe to keep them going strong. Khorne will be the last one to circle the drain.
Necrons will get snuffed by the Nids or Orks. Both have the psychic power via hive mind oder Waaagh! to overwhelm them eventually. Also both are unending in number. Necron are resilient but only 3 gods left and not nearly enought warriors to snuff out the endless hordes of the other two races.

Then the final battle between the two unstoppable forces will commence. Both seemingly endless.

Nids will win in the end between those two in the long run. They will be able to consume the enemy and their own fallen while the Orks can only spawn new warriors on planets that have not been taken by the Nids. Nids just consume too much to be stopped. It is thought that the 3 hive fleets we have seen so far are just the leading edge of the fleets to come.

What GW will have happen?
The Emperor reincarnates and the Primarchs come back. Humans PWN. The end.

**Corpsesarefun**

Blackclaw wrote:1) Necron Gods the Dragon and the uh... other guy (one is on Mars, one in a Dyson Sphere, forget where)... and Pariah program comes to fruition. Pretty well take over the galaxy, blot out all pyschic impressions and turn the Warp into pure liquid, destroying the one force that could stop them.
Off of this though, and scary prospect here, if Pariahs are the perfect symbiosis between machine and flesh.... can the Tyranids assimilate them?

2) Tyranids wipe out all bio-matter, no pyschic impressions left to maintain warp/chaos gods, no food for 'crons... game over, time to start floating the void for another galaxy to consume

allow me to completely feth up your theory

1. the c'tan (and as such necrons in general) want to seal the warp and not allow it to connect with the material universe rather than turn it into liquid.

2. Pariahs are psycic nulls and if the tyranids absorbed them it would cause the hive mind to cease to exist, massive psycic being becoming a psycic null is never good for it

3. The necrons dont need food, only the c'tan do and the tyranids are just as tasty as other lifeforms thus necrons purge and c'tan eat them. Nid fail.

**Grimpost**

Blackclaw wrote:1)
3) The Emperor comes back, sets all things right yadda yadda, Humanity lives happily (if zealously) ever after

IIRC
The emperor did not spread around that he was GOD. He was the one who came up with the Imperial Truth. That was to explain the universe to the masses while stripping away superstition and religion so people could see from a point of logic and reason. It was only during the Horus Heresy and after his incarceration in the golden throne that the Cult started spewing forth the God stuff to keep the population focused on the empire and suppress innovation as a means to maintain the status quo.

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corpsesarefun wrote:
Blackclaw wrote:1) Necron Gods the Dragon and the uh... other guy (one is on Mars, one in a Dyson Sphere, forget where)... and Pariah program comes to fruition. Pretty well take over the galaxy, blot out all pyschic impressions and turn the Warp into pure liquid, destroying the one force that could stop them.
Off of this though, and scary prospect here, if Pariahs are the perfect symbiosis between machine and flesh.... can the Tyranids assimilate them?

2) Tyranids wipe out all bio-matter, no pyschic impressions left to maintain warp/chaos gods, no food for 'crons... game over, time to start floating the void for another galaxy to consume

allow me to completely feth up your theory
1. the c'tan (and as such necrons in general) want to seal the warp and not allow it to connect with the material universe rather than turn it into liquid.

2. Pariahs are psycic nulls and if the tyranids absorbed them it would cause the hive mind to cease to exist, massive psycic being becoming a psycic null is never good for it

3. The necrons dont need food, only the c'tan do and the tyranids are just as tasty as other lifeforms thus necrons purge and c'tan eat them. Nid fail.

the nids do not have to absorb them they just have to kill them. Any synapse creature could do it as they all have the ability to think for themselves to some extent. Hive mind says kill them and it's on like donkey kong.

C'tan rely on the warriors for the souls and emotions of the fallen enemy to feed. No soul, no emotion. Weak C'tan. Not to mention that the C'tan can be destroyed by a mighty psychic power. That is why they built the few towers to try and stop the psychic forces from attacking them. Also to try and stop the enslavers.

**Emperors Faithful**

Grimpost wrote:
The Emperor reincarnates and the Primarchs come back. Humans PWN. The end.

Damn Straght!

**Sphe**

According to the Cabal(directly in Legion, one of the Heresy novels), humanity will be wiped out due to the taint of Chaos.
The book: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13707158/horus-heresy-7-legion

Search (ctrl+F) for the words "until the Primordial Annihilator at last achieves ascendancy." (Or it's on pg 394 of the book.)
Whether or not this 'ascendancy' means conquering the universe or dying or something else altogether, I have no idea. But Humanity won't have a spot in the end of the 40k Universe.

**tigonesskay**

Sphe wrote:According to the Cabal(directly in Legion, one of the Heresy novels), humanity will be wiped out due to the taint of Chaos.
The book: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13707158/horus-heresy-7-legion

Search (ctrl+F) for the words "until the Primordial Annihilator at last achieves ascendancy." (Or it's on pg 394 of the book.)
Whether or not this 'ascendancy' means conquering the universe or dying or something else altogether, I have no idea. But Humanity won't have a spot in the end of the 40k Universe.

chaos needs humanity to survive no humans chaos loses power. Now of course there are other species out there in the universe but does the power of chaos extend beyond the galaxy?

**Orkeosaurus**

Orks will never be wiped out. They're way too far spread, and they continue to spread more quickly than anyone else. That's not to say they would end up the victors of the conflict in the Milky Way.

The Tyranids and Necrons are both a huge unknown right now. Especially since they may still come into conflict with one another. Chaos goes deeper than humanity, but if it will ever come to rule the material universe is still unknown. (The Cabal wasn't omniscient, and we still don't know what Alpharius and company did with their prediction after the Heresy.)

The Tau would require a ton of luck to survive long enough to become a galactic power. Especially since they haven't had an Iron Men incident yet (the drones are rebelling!).