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If your playing apocalypse then you could use the fire prism apocalyptic tactic where if you have 6 or 5 fire prisms you get instant penetration against any armour and i think its
AP1

As everybody already stated, your best bets are Linked Prisms(in a pinch mind you, should be pie-plating things if possible), Dragons in Falcons, Kamiskimmers or Wraithguard...which....am I the only person who still uses these things? LoL I love binding up powerful squads of close combat warriors for 3 turns with them after nuking something like a Demon Prince or Land Raider. Remember, on a 6 result on the Land Raider destruction, you can assault what was left in it's rubble...and if they aren't a bunch of Hammer/Shield Marines, you mght just do well(I run mine with Enhancelock to go first and hit on 3s vs marines). Just have to stay away from 3+ attacks with powerweapons.

Jimi Nemesis wrote:Everyone seems to be forgetting something.

Before I sound like a condescending prick, does Ramming count as CC?

Wave Serpents have Energy Field, meaing that against front/Side Armour, anything abve STR 8 counts as STR 8.

Unless Ramming ignores this

Ramming is not CC or shooting, so the wave field does not help, as it specifies that it only works against shooting attacks.

Saltoric wrote:If your playing apocalypse then you could use the fire prism apocalyptic tactic where if you have 6 or 5 fire prisms you get instant penetration against any armour and i think its
AP1

There's no such thing as tactics in apocalypse.

The most important thing to consider is not how to be prepared take down AV14 spam, but how to do it without compromising your army's overall effectiveness. Taking down heavy armor at range is a challenge for a balanced Eldar army that can also deal with hordes.

I find including many "multi-pupose" units helps: units that can either focus on heavy targets or go back to their original purpose.

First up are BL Serpents. I play Mechdar, and detail at least 3 of my Serpents to carry BLs. Combined with all the other anti-armor that I carry they do pretty well, but also aren't a big loss against armor-light armies.

Next up are Prisms. They multi-pupose effortlessly.

Then there are Singing Spears on solo bikeseers or fusion guns on bikelocks. If you're really in trouble, these BS5 shots can give you an edge.

I do take a dedicated unit of Dragons, as their points-to-kill ratio is exceptional. Even if no armor shows up at all, they're a sure kill on MEQ, Tau suits, damaged nobz units or even IG command units that you really, really want dead.

Lastly, there's ramming, as extensively explored above. It's great for empty transports, especially the Dragons' ride.

None of these options are enough to destroy plentiful heavy armor alone- but if you use them all and really focus your fire, you can devastate most heavy mech lists. Even 3 Raiders or 4+ Russes will be troubled. My own failing in the past has been balancing this mission of tank-destruction with keeping the objectives well in mind...

The other issue is, like you mentioned above, dealing with hordes. My army has 2 prisms, 3 lances on my avenger serpents, and 2x5 dragons in serpents, and a 7 man council with yriel and eldrad. I can deal with raiders.

I cannot deal with someone plopping down 180 ork boyz. Especially since my avenger squads are minimum 5 man squads. The best i can hope for is to run away constantly, as orks generally have bad ranged anti tank.

What it comes down to is eldar can list tailor well. Where I play we have no horde players, almost everyone runs hybrid or mech armies, mostly MEQ. So taking lots of anti horde weapons is unimportant to me. And if you can meta well eldar are still competitive. But if you go to an event like adepticon or the ard boyz, you are less likely to be able to meta game. And with the fact that nearly everything in the eldar list is overpriced we cannot afford to run a true all comers army anymore.

Basically it comes down to rock paper scissors. If you are equipped to handle armor like I am you will win. But if you show up against something you cannot handle you will have to run away.

The best offense against an AV14 defense can be summed up in 2 words.
Seer Council.
or two more words.
Witch Blades.

Warlocks do the body good!

Hitting on 6s against a competent player and only penning on 6s means that witchblades are not a reliable answer. Also, killing transport vehicles in the CC phase is the absolute worst way to do it, because you want to have a chance to shoot them before they assault you.

willydstyle wrote:Hitting on 6s against a competent player and only penning on 6s means that witchblades are not a reliable answer. Also, killing transport vehicles in the CC phase is the absolute worst way to do it, because you want to have a chance to shoot them before they assault you.

That.

Councils can be used as part of an effective anti-AV14 strategy. The best use for them though is to wait for everything else to crunch the transports and then charge the cargo. This is even better if you can surround the vehicle, forcing an emergency disembarkation into the burning wreck (although your Council will have dangerous terrain tests to charge the enemy in turn). Of course, the occasional explosion makes this bite back regularly, but your saves are good enough to make it worthwhile versus the transported unit's losses.

If the rest of your army fails to pop the transport, have a go at the transport with the Seers, as you will be getting charged either way. At least you'll inflict some wreck and dangerous terrain hits too.

ahem, you disembark before the vehicle becomes a wreck.

you cannot disembark onto a "still active" unit/vehicle(it counts as impassible)

emergency disembarkation still follows unit placement rules.

Therefore if the emergency disembark fails the transported unit is lost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FYI

Thanks for the correction! I've been playing that wrong, as have most folks I've played against.

I missed the text "after this the vehicle becomes a wreck", as most folks I've been playing with must have as well. We've been playing as if emergency disembarkation allows models to be placed within the flaming wreck- which it would, were it not for the little line of text that states (as you point out) that the vehicle is not a wreck until after the passengers are out.

This makes 7-plus-elf jetbike units a lot more useful vs. mech armies.

On the downside, I never really liked the hatch-blocking means of destroying transported units. It seems a bit unrealistic, if the wreck didn't explode. Dangerous terrain plus the usual damage from vehicle destruction seems a bit more fair. I mean, power-armored Marines would likely survive the wreck of their Rhino...

and yet, anything that might have destroyed the rhino should also have significantly wounded the passengers.

so I think it evens out.