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Nurgleboy77 wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I remember the "don't buy gas on Tuesday boycott". Yeah, that had a huge impact on gas prices. I mean when that happened gas suddenly fell to 10 cents per gallon....errr wait. It didn't. It just ended up in people buying gas that day because they realized to wait another day would have meant sitting alongside the road somewhere.

Hmm.

I don't think I'll boycott GW. I'm too addicted to their miniatures and nobody in my group is interested in another system and I usually order through Neal so if I don't buy GW products than Neal loses my money, therefore Neal loses money.

Naw, I don't think I'll be in.

Right there with ya, FW.

This is pretty silly. Sounds to me liek GW is protecting itself by trying to stop other companies making models of their IP. As The Iak said, they're just asking them to stop infringing not "shutting them down".

I don't seek to persuade you either way. As a moderator I am not going to argue for or against a boycott.

However I would like to correct the misconception about what GW are doing which has made people angry.

GW have no legal right to stop Impact Miniatures making Special Player figures for Blood Bowl. GW do not own IP to protect in the Special Characters.
GW do not produce the figures for several of the Special Players already in the rules, and these are the ones that Impact are covering.
Rather than make figures themselves, GW has threatened to delete all Special Players from the 6th edition rules, which are ready to be released.

I am sure you will understand why this makes fans of the game angry.

I'm with you guys!

I've stopped spending on GW stuff atm, actually.

PP, and CB (infinity) are getting some of the love for a change. Even Old Crow got some.

I do need to buy a chimera shortly though (to become a template for some plasticard skullduggery). I can hope to find a badly assembled with superglue model secondhand (it worked for my only G drop pod).

Heh, I haven't bought a new GW model in a year or so, and there was a 6 year gap before that. Nice to see you lot are catching up

To carry on Mean Green Stompa's list..

You could try Ground Zero Games.
http://www.groundzerogames.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
Stargrunt is 25mm realistic Sci-fi at £1 a figure or a platoon of 24 for £19!
25mm too big for you? You can play the same system with 15mm too. and they don't cost the Earth either at £2.50 for 8 figures or £24 for 3 apc's and three squads.
Maybe you like epic? Try Dirtside, the 1/300 system.
Space battles? Full Thrust is for you.
The best bit from the stargrunt rulebook?
"Although our range of 25mm miniatures is designed for this system, you shouldn't feel you have to use them. The universe background should be considered a starting point, or you can ignore it all together." How refreshing

Pig iron make a nice range of tank and apc models.
http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/?zenid=ab55a96bc16b44f2588bc0b614341dd3
As do Old Crow
http://www.oldcrowmodels.co.uk/

Maybe Gripping Beast's massive range of Classical, Dark Age, low/mid Medieval, and WW2 (plus others!) figures will float your boat.
http://www.grippingbeast.com/webpage.php?PageID=1

I have to agree with Mean Green Stompa's list as the Perry Samurai are very nice sculpts.

I'm there, have cancelled my Fortress order...
Mick

Hmmmm, I'm not gonna boycott GW as a) the FLGS doesn't stock the other game I play [Reaper's Warlord], b) I like Tyranids, and c) GW protecing their IP doesn't really bother me. The whole BB star player fiasco was stupid, but it isn't a big enough deal for me to decide to hate the whole company.

I've already been boycotting them for a while. The last product I ever bought from GW was Space Hulk, and before that was the Planetstrike book, and as far as I know those are the only two purchases I've made for the entire year...and a broadside suit from Maelstrom, so three. I've been doing my damndest though to make sure I can still enjoy my hobby without giving GW my money, I've even been replacing my GW paint with Vallejo stuff.

I don't plan on buying anything from GW for Christmas anyway, so this should be easy enough.

GRRR! HOW DARE THEY PROTECT THEIR IP, THE ACT OF WHICH IS A LEGAL REQUISITE IF YOU WISH TO MAINTAIN OWNERSHIP OF SAID IP!

GRRR!!! GRRRRR!!!!! AND THRICE GRRRR!

Except it isn't their IP if they don't produce a miniature for that character.
Copying a Terminator, or a Tau (or whatever) and calling it something else is a breach of IP.
Recasting a figure with the intent to sell is a breach of IP.

Making new figures to fit in with an existing line, but which have not been produced by anyone else, is not a breach of IP.

Otherwise GW could sue any other fantasy figure manufacturer just for making a Minotaur, or Elf or what have you.

But I don't believe you can actively advertise your product as being compatible with another product? Could well be wrong.

But the shutting down of FUMBBL, regardless whether their website says you must have a hardcopy of the game is a totally different kettle of fish.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:GRRR! HOW DARE THEY PROTECT THEIR IP, THE ACT OF WHICH IS A LEGAL REQUISITE IF YOU WISH TO MAINTAIN OWNERSHIP OF SAID IP!

No one really minds them attempting to protect their IP. It's the seemingly heavy-handed way they go about it that gets the wind up everyone.

If they'd produced some of their own Star Players and trademarked the names instead of attempting to blackmail the fanbase they might have fared a little better in the opinion poles.

Sure there will be "good" reasons why that wasn't an option for them. In which case they can't be surprised when fans of the game feel somewhat aggrieved.

As ever with GW it is the complete lack of transparency and any "rapport" with the fans of the game by those in positions of apparent power that is the problem. Not the actual attempted result. Again, GW maangement just show themselves to be incompetent loons, still stuck back in the stone age with their lack of any satisfactory PR strategy.

Here's a story running the rounds of the fan community, up in lights on all the main sources of GW miniatures news, yet GW are totally silent and keeping shtum. If they had any sense they'd be on the forums or MyFaceTwitterBook mingling and shmoozing. Instead they are locked in their ivory towers, manning the barricades and whinging about the nassssssty customerssss my precioussssss!

If you condemn this idea, you are effectively telling GW "Everything you do, be it price hikes, lack of FAQ's or the Bloodbowl fiasco, is fine by me...keep it up. You need not worry about satisfying your fanbase."

This is of course...ridiculous.

The reason this sort of thing will not work can only be attributed to the people that SAY it wont and refuse to jump onboard. Assuming the boycott is successful, GW may feel the pinch, they may not. However, if enough people are pessimistic about even TRYING to stand up and demand more for our dollars...we will NEVER know if something like this boycott would be successful in the first place.

Two things...

If you're not planning on jumping aboard, don't condemn the idea. This whole idea was put forward to make life better for US, the HOBBYISTS. You can only benefit. There is no benefit for repeatadly saying "it will not work". If you do/say nothing and it costs GW an extra 1000 dollars this Christmas season (not hard to imagine, 20 box sets can easily add up to 1000) perhaps that 1000 bucks would be the straw that broke the camels back and makes them sit up and take notice.

Basically, you stand to gain nothing by condemning this plan of action, but still have much to gain. Why would you specifically try to condemn this idea when you gain nothing by being pessimistic and by remaining silent you could come out a winner?

Also. If you dont buy GW product and werent planning on it anyway, then pick something up from a competitor. It doesnt bother GW so much if a non-customer continues to be a non-customer.

Come on MDG, get with the plan.

Nobody begrudges GW making money, however we do begrudge how they behave and this latest carry on is the last of many annoying things about them.

Sure Ill wait the 2 months to buy my wifes tyranid stuff. Now go and sign my petition!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:GRRR! HOW DARE THEY PROTECT THEIR IP, THE ACT OF WHICH IS A LEGAL REQUISITE IF YOU WISH TO MAINTAIN OWNERSHIP OF SAID IP!

GRRR!!! GRRRRR!!!!! AND THRICE GRRRR!

GW aren't protecting their IP in this case.

They are making a blatant attempt to coerce a third party via pressure on their own customers.

If GW would just make the Star Player figures, the whole issue would go away.

This is reminding me of the boycotts from price "adjustment"

Kilkrazy wrote:
They are making a blatant attempt to coerce a third party via pressure on their own customers.

Despicable.

ALSO, if someone does has the mailing address for JJ or anyone else to write too, would you PM it to me. Ill gladly mail the guy, possibly even numerous times lol. And maybe even a big ol box full of packaging peanuts with a link to my petition sitting on top

See, I don't see this doing anything. Why? Because too many little timmys will be buying stuff for christmas, and the effect you have is immeasurable.

If you wanted this to be successful, my advice would be to pick a time in the fortnight before christmas, and get everyone to phone in. A mass phone in. If for a fortnight before christmas, they have their phone lines clogged with people complaining, that will be noticeable. Doesn't even matter if the same people call once or twice, it'll be an effect that is felt as their sales staff have to listen to you guys listing your grievances. That'll get passed up the vine. And the longer it goes on for, the more it'll be noticed. Heck, make your boycott part of it. Tell them that you're all boycotting them over the christmas period AS WELL as complaining about anything and everything else. They're not going to hang up on you. And if they do, that's the point you call the media in, and see if you can get some bad headlines. It also gives you another complaint to air. Also spam their email inboxes during that two week period.

Hvaing done that, the next thing you do is take a handwritten letter to the local GW, and get them to forward it to GW HQ, or post it yourself if you don't have one nearby. When a wave of complaints letters hits them at the same time as their christmas lists, it'll be felt, because they have to sort through them as well.

In short, make their sales and commmunication staffs lives miserable for a fortnight in addition to a boycott. The trick is to make yourself felt! Simply abstaining will never be noticeable enough to cause any kind of change. You need cumulative effect.

Ketara wrote:
If you wanted this to be successful, my advice would be to pick a time in the fortnight before christmas, and get everyone to phone in. A mass phone in. If for a fortnight before christmas, they have their phone lines clogged with people complaining, that will be noticeable. Doesn't even matter if the same people call once or twice, it'll be an effect that is felt as their sales staff have to listen to you guys listing your grievances. That'll get passed up the vine. And the longer it goes on for, the more it'll be noticed. Heck, make your boycott part of it. Tell them that you're all boycotting them over the christmas period AS WELL as complaining about anything and everything else. They're not going to hang up on you. And if they do, that's the point you call the media in, and see if you can get some bad headlines. It also gives you another complaint to air. Also spam their email inboxes during that two week period.

Ketara , once again you amaze me . Way to think outside the box .
Guys if you really want to boycott, use Ketara's idea .

Boycott is not going to work. Financial estimates have GW making more money than every this year and even more next year. If dakka got a 1000 members not to buy anything the money made from other things such as fiction books sold in walmart and video games coming out will make that small amount look like normal market movement.

If you want to get things changed go for the stock holders or become one. They have more power with GW than the gamers. Everyone wants to rant and rave, put your money where your mouth is.

2 months is worthless. If you want to try a boycott, what till they are having a huge release like Apoc and Planetstrike. Boycott then since they need the profit because they will need to pay back the investors.

Ketara wrote:See, I don't see this doing anything. Why? Because too many little timmys will be buying stuff for christmas, and the effect you have is immeasurable.

Who knows if it will be successful? It certainly WON'T be successful if no one even tries though!

Boycotts *can* be effective, and they don't have to be universal by any means for the company concerned to be worried enough to take action.

Recent boycotts I have been aware of involved the chocolate industry and their use of slave labour in cocoa production in Africa. Both the Mars Corp and in the UK, Cadbury's rapidly altered their supply chain in response to boycotts in order to be able to claim they are now offering "slavery-free chocolate", and those boycotts barely hit the mainstream media, so for popular products like chocolate bars the actual affect on sales must have been miniscule! Yet still it had the desired impact and made the big brand names switch to ethical sources of cocoa. Anything that vaguely hints at tarnishing and devalueing a company's brand image should get the attention of the drectors. I say *should*. Of course that is assuming rationality on the part of the executives! Which is a pretty hefty assumption in the case of "fat and lazy" GW.

Damn that defeatism guys, just hold your nerdy "must buy my plastic crack" urges in check long enough to give it a go and see what happens! And there's nothing to say that you can't also send in letters as well. Object on as many fronts as you can and *something* may eventually get through to the goons in charge!

Don't forget even if you got 1000 people on board, if it gets into the media and a negative story is broadcast they will start to take note.

Pipboy101 wrote:If you want to get things changed go for the stock holders or become one. They have more power with GW than the gamers. Everyone wants to rant and rave, put your money where your mouth is.

Good idea! Use you November and December gaming budget to buy GW shares. That would be good! Two birds with one stone!

They don't have to be universal, but the fact is, if a minority wants to force through any kind of change, they MUST be as vocal as possible. That means clogging up every possible line of communication. Whilst you stay silent, they won't notice you. Why? Because you're in the minority, and you're not going out of your way to tell them about your boycott. And even if you present them with a bigass petition, they'll simply ignore it. petitions make everything too nice and neat for a company. If you want to force a change on them, cripple their communications networks over a crucial sales period. As a company, they cannot shut those down or ignore you, because there will be genuine customers mixed in with your guys stuff.

It's not defeatism, it's realism. Whilst this has been started off with the best of intentions, it's not nearly extreme enough to galvanise GW into taking any kind of action.

EDIT:- Deadshane, if you're truly serious about this, and think you can whip up enough of a following PM me and I'll give you a list of step by step instructions on how to make GW's life particularly unpleasant. I wouldn't dream of attempting this myself, as I'm only on this forum and couldn't get together enough support to make myself felt across the wargaming community. But if you think you can, or anyone else does, I can give you the tools for the job.

It's unlikely to get to the media though- on the broader scale of evil things corporations do, it's not even up there. It's still disgraceful. I think BB fans should all go and buy a copy of Grind this christmas.

Couple of items I wanted from GW for Christmas, have put them on hold for two months to join the boycott. I've got plenty of stuff needing painting

I wont be join boycott cause i need few things but ill spend more my money on warmachine!

A two month boycott will not do anything. Stop buying GW product - go play a different game or play 40K with figs from some other company. GW can keep their precious IP all to themselves.

21500+ registered users on dakka

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Cost to GW= 1,075,000

What if the Warseer community joins?
Librarium online?
40k online?
B&C?

If this plan went viral to fansites all over, the cost to GW could be significant. If we could cost them 2-3% of their yearly take because of this, do you honestly think that they "wouldnt notice or care". Yea, right.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ketara wrote: Deadshane, if you're truly serious about this, and think you can whip up enough of a following PM me and I'll give you a list of step by step instructions on how to make GW's life particularly unpleasant.......b.

This thread is actually designed to test that.