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1. Support your customers. Show us some love. Warhammer isn't what the "cool kids" do and really people receive flak for doing it in some places. How about they show those people and all of the people some appreciation. When I started in the 6th grade I received crap for it and it's a pain in the @$$ and it's not fun having to explain something you like to do to your friend basis constantly.

2. Write real rules and support them.

3. Start a REAL tournament system that focuses on player skill and establish a national ranking basis. Do this. NOW. Also in this, write missions that are fair. Don't support one army type in one and one in the other.

4. EVERY and I mean EVERY edition write a Faq. for EVERY SINGLE ARMY!! updating them for the new edition. Then, you can print a new codex later with updated units etc.

5. Give us the models for every unit, or at least base sizes for every model. Not having TWC models (prime example) is a pain in the @$$ because we don't know how to standardize them! People could have Bloodcrusher sized one then the next guy could have them riding WHFB Golbin Wolfs! If you standardized what model gets what base (ex. the TWC entry has "XX mm base".

6. (No offense dakka, I love the site but...) Start a forum on YOUR WEBSITE. Have GW staffers post on it and make it an official forum were you can announce and explain your positions and get player feedback.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

kinghammer wrote:Nothing will ever make the people who "hate" GW, love it again. I will just find something else to bitch about. Those people are like sharks, if the they stop bitching they die, just like if a shark stops swiming he will die.

Cheers

You keep appearing with these trite little driveby flamebaiting soundbites. It's getting like some recurring cameo in a sitcom. Could you work on establishing a catchphrase though?

'Them crazy GW hatin kids is what's killin the economy I tells ya!'

or

'Don't talk gak about JJ! wakka wakka wakka!!'

Incidentally, if according to you, people who might criticise GW will 'die if they stop bitching', what does it take for you to shuffle off this mortal coil and more to the point, how do I facilitate that?

See that is where you are wrong. Most of the time "GW hatin kids" do bitch and don't do anything to fix it. I want to see these people do something about it. Stop talking and act. Put your money where your mouth is.

If you don't enjoy the game or have no ideas to "fix" the hobby, don't play it is that simple. If something gets you that worked up and it is not fun walk away, it is better for the both of us and the hobby in general.

Cheers

don't play it

*yawn*

So why did you put "hate" in "quotation marks", "anyway"? Are you trying to "insinuate" that I don't "actually" "hate" GW or what? I'm confused.

kinghammer wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

kinghammer wrote:Nothing will ever make the people who "hate" GW, love it again. I will just find something else to bitch about. Those people are like sharks, if the they stop bitching they die, just like if a shark stops swiming he will die.

Cheers

You keep appearing with these trite little driveby flamebaiting soundbites. It's getting like some recurring cameo in a sitcom. Could you work on establishing a catchphrase though?

'Them crazy GW hatin kids is what's killin the economy I tells ya!'

or

'Don't talk gak about JJ! wakka wakka wakka!!'

Incidentally, if according to you, people who might criticise GW will 'die if they stop bitching', what does it take for you to shuffle off this mortal coil and more to the point, how do I facilitate that?

See that is where you are wrong. Most of the time "GW hatin kids" do bitch and don't do anything to fix it. I want to see these people do something about it. Stop talking and act. Put your money where your mouth is.
If you don't enjoy the game or have no ideas to "fix" the hobby, don't play it is that simple. If something gets you that worked up and it is not fun walk away, it is better for the both of us and the hobby in general.
Cheers

Precisely why I am completing my ork army by ebay for second hand products and killa kans/dreds from AT-43 walkers. When the orks are done, I will be building a fantasy army, most likely empire, from ebay and direct purchasing from gamezone miniatures, who produce better quality figures than GW.

BUT YOU STILL PLAY TEHIR GAMES TAHT DOESN'T COUNT!!!1111

Sorry for the caps...

Sidstyler wrote:BUT YOU STILL PLAY TEHIR GAMES TAHT DOESN'T COUNT!!!1111

Sorry for the caps...

OH NOES I AM A DIRTY BOY!!1! But...But...I'm not buying their books any more, how will I manage...

mwahahahahahahahaha! Never fear, the Planetary Defense Force is here.

GW could realise the value of offering parts and bitz. I don't see how their master plan could be ruined by allowing me to purchase track side and track sprues separately.

C'mon £7.95 for the body and turret gubbins of a Leman Russ for £7.95 so that makes tracks and sides what? £16.00!!

Kids mums and aunties will always buy the complete box why not let me buy my components? This spend is going elsewhere at the moment.

Oh, they need to erase the ambiguities from current rule sets and codexes. Has the campaign for real English ever tackled a40K rulebook? Write the books properly and you will do away with needless errata and FAQ. keeps the casual gamers happy and would surely make tourney play a lot smoother?

meh. it's pretty moot. we all know that GW won't do any of this.

1) return of the bitz service.

2) "Dear Tournament Player, go to Warmachine, Love Jervis"

3) "Dear CSM Players, We're sorry. Here's Chaos Legions."

4) Forgeworld US

5) Return of Squats, LATD, Genestealer Cult, Dark Eldar, Rogue Trader forces. Stuff that feels more like Rogue Trader and less like "I have to win to give my miserable life meaning."

What would make me love GW again? Powerful prescription drugs or a complete reversal of mindset at GWHQ.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Precisely why I am completing my ork army by ebay for second hand products and killa kans/dreds from AT-43 walkers. When the orks are done, I will be building a fantasy army, most likely empire, from ebay and direct purchasing from gamezone miniatures, who produce better quality figures than GW.

Batertown pretty much built my entire ork and beastmen army, both my latest projects. Didnt have to give GW a single penny. Like I siad, GW doesnt factor into my fun. Their quite irrelevant.

Duh...that's easy. Chocolate. Lots and lots of chocolate.

George Spiggott wrote:a complete reversal of mindset at GWHQ.

That's not going to happen as long as Tom Kirby is alive.

They really need to stop pushing Space Marines. It drove away two of my friends away from the hobby that where just getting into it, from the constant pushing by GW staffers in the stores to an every other army thats updated being space marines release schedule, its a huge turn off for a lot of people.

I can understand having a cash cow and trying to milk every cent out of it, but at some point people are going to get sick of it and move on to something else because its NOT space marines, and thats happening now.

You mean like how Nids are up next?

Hi all.
The ONE thing that annoyes me more than anything else about GW PLC is...
The studio staff bang on about 'enjoy playing the game...the game should be fun for both players..etc'.
Yet GW PLC put gameplay as bottom priority when actualy developing the rulesets for 40k and WH.

The game play is so limited , the players default to W/D/L as thier is so little gameplay to actuialy enjoy!

The asthetics sell the minatures, you dont have to FUBAR the rule set with poorly concieved 'special rules' purley to try to pimp the latest releases!

In short if GAMES WORKSHOP re-structured to sell minatures as efficiently as possible.Give up all pretence of caring about gameing and the hoobby,(And called themselves Citadel Minatures... )

OR actualy focus on game play to drive LONG term interest in long term hobbiests for long term growth!

TTFN
Lanrak.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:a complete reversal of mindset at GWHQ.

That's not going to happen as long as Tom Kirby is alive.

Industrial Ninjas Incorporated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnHwangDD wrote:You mean like how Nids are up next?

Hang on a sec...

According to Wikipedia it will be the first non-Imperial codex for two years. Only the second Xeno codex in over three years, and it's over four and a half years since Nids were updated to 4e.

Let alone Necrons and DE, blah blah blah.

There have been six SM codexes in the past five years.

In no particular order, things which will make ME happier with GW

Bitz service, specialist games back in action, rational prices for plastic and metal troops (say $2 for plastic, $4 for metal), cheaper special characters, deeper White Dwarf, more hobby articles.

Probably will never see those again either.

I don't exactly hate GW, but I think they could do a few things that would improve my view of them.

First, they should stop ignoring every army except Space Marines and Orks. Every other army is sort of treated sub-par to these.

Second, actually fething work work on the current fethed up 'dexes inseatd of realeasing SW and other gak. Necrons, WH, DE, DH, all need updates.

Third, lower the prices, not much more to say here.

Lastly, they should listen to people with threads and discussions like this. They don't really seem to listen to what the customers want, they just listen to the money. Money Talks.

If you are reading this and you work for/at GW, please don't take this as a negative statement, only suggestions from the customer's, yes the people who made you who you are today, point of view.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:
If you are reading this and you work for/at GW, please don't take this as a negative statement, only suggestions from the customer's, yes the people who made you who you are today, point of view.

Do any of their employees, other than the legal department, know how to access the internet?

JohnHwangDD wrote:You mean like how Nids are up next?

Space marines, IG, SW, Nids, Rumored BA...

Its getting rather ridicules. And it really does not help that the only race you can play as in a campaign for most games are marines. (DOW, DOW2, Squad command, upcoming marine shooter, fire warrior was rare.)

I don't hate GW.

I don't love them, either, though. I don't love Ford, even though I buy their cars.

That said -- I respect GW for their customer service when it comes to their minis & most of their other products. If they make a mistake on an order -- they fix it. If they screw up, & a product is unsatisfactory, they fix it. They don't quibble -- they just apologise, and sort it out, very rapidly. Their customer service in those areas is exemplary.

If they wanted my love, they'd extend that customer service to their codexes & rulebooks. It already applies to their other products, but I want updated, balanced, playtested codexes, please. There is no reason not to do it, if they wanted to. I've personally written & playtested commercially successful, critically acclaimed, balanced roleplaying games in far less time than it takes the entire Studio to produce flawed, half-tested codexes...

I want to be able to phone up GW customer service & say, "My Dark Angels codex doesn't work any more, and never did, really -- can I have a replacement, please? No, a replacement 4th Edition one's no good -- it'll have the same problems as my one does. I need a 5th edition one. And can you sort out the same for Daemonhunters and Chaos Space Marines while you're there, please? You'll get them in the post tomorrow? Lovely, thanks."

Kilkrazy wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:You mean like how Nids are up next?

According to Wikipedia it will be the first non-Imperial codex for two years.

Only the second Xeno codex in over three years, and

it's over four and a half years since Nids were updated to 4e.

Let alone Necrons and DE, blah blah blah.

There have been six SM codexes in the past five years.

If Wiki is right, the relevant non-MEQ, non-SM releases are as follows:
- May 2009 = 5E Guard (non-ISM)
- May 2008 = 4E Daemons (Xenos)
- Jan 2008 = 4E Orks (Xenos)
- June 2005 = 4E Nids (Xenos)

Counting Daemons & Orks, I'd say:
- "first non-Imperial in a year and half" (May 2008 to Jan 2010)
- "third Xenos in 2 years" (Jan 2008 to Jan 2010)
- "first non-Marines in half a year" (May 2009 to Jan 2010)
IMO, it's not so bad at all.

Four and a half years to update any Codex is on the fast side. In context, Nids are being given a *very* fair shake. They're being treated as a major army, and getting an update within 5 years of their last update.

DE and Necrons are minor armies, so DE by 2013 and Necrons by 2012 will be about right for them.

A MEQ Codex every year is about right, given the sheer number of MEQ Codices out there. It's normal business for 40k, and I think people should accept that is how things are going to be. Kinda like how the wife simply has to accept that the guy will often leave the toilet seat up, and husbands have to accept that the wife always seems to leave the toilet seat down...


disclaimer: I don't believe that all armies should be treated equally, so I have no problem with major armies like Nids being updated before minor armies like DE or Necrons.

I still love GW.

But then, I only play Space Marines, I don't enjoy competative tournament play, and I think story -telling and hobby are more important than balanced rules sets.

I think they've been on a very steady track to improvement over the last year, but they still have a ways to go.

I'd like to see some of the older armies updated with nice looking new plastics (such as Sisters of battle and Grey Knights)

The fact that GW is nickle and dimeing themselves on the "Codex Creep" is the very thing that had them coming up with the 3d edition... then the 4th edition... and then 5th...

Seriously, years before product support? You are joking, right? Any other industry that does this doesn't stay relevent for very long. Ask Detroit how that kind of thinking goes for a business.

As for being the be all end all on gaming, they have opened themselves up for others to take thier place.

Games workshop, but we have no games... Doesn't work well for a workshop.

I dunno, Grot... 40k balance seems pretty flat - while newer Codices can do more, they're not hugely overpowering like in WFB.

Besides, Detroit's problems weren't product support - it was new product and product quality - lessons Chrysler still is having problems with.

But no, I don't think anybody is going to love GW. Just not to hate them.