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Gornall wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:I'll try and make a hoard list that I think could take on the mekanised, my major advantage is that I wouldn't have to spend point to get into combet, I'd have you come to me.

I think he wins that one, simply because he more than likely gets the charge off, so he gets the +1 S and +1 I to compensate for your greater numbers. But that's just me shooting from the hip.

I'm glad you mentioned this, beacuse this is why I have special feelings over hoard armies. Any who on to the tactic. You run a big squad (or too in a big game) of grots in front of your battle line. You wait in your deployment zone beacuse you know they have to come to you. Basicaly you force them to charge your cheap units, denying them the oppertunity to to real damage. If your crap units break, great, beacuse on your turn you can shoot, then charge. By making some units in their army obselite you maximise your own point expendature. A smart opponent will ram throught your crap unit. but that is fine, beacuse the CC fight will be long and very grinding, although they get the charge (thought they might not) once they are in CC my supirior numbers will start to tell. Were he spent points on trukks and KFF meks, BW and other "get there fast" gear, I spent it on what is inevitable. The army I talk about uses a tactiv that relies on you comming to me, in this case it works, but even if you don't I can come to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hq=245
Warboss; cyborg body, eavy armour, mega armour, attack squig=125
Warboss; cyborg body, mega armour, attack squig=120


Troops=1014
30 Orks boys; sluggas, choppas, nob, PK, bosspole=220
30 Orks boys; sluggas, choppas, nob, PK, bosspole=220
30 Orks boys; sluggas, choppas, nob, PK, bosspole=220
30 Orks boys; sluggas, choppas, nob, PK, bosspole=220
19 grots, 1 rutherd; grot blastas, slugga, choppa, grabba stick, squig hound=67
19 grots, 1 rutherd; grot blastas, slugga, choppa, grabba stick, squig hound=67

Fast attack=100
Warbuggie; Twin linked big shoota=30
Warbuggie; Twin linked big shoota=30
Warbuggie; Scorcha=40

Heavy support=390
3 Killa kans; skorchas=120
3 killa kans; grot zookas=135
3 killa kans; grot zookas=135

Total=1749 points

Dashofpepper wrote:I realize that I didn't make this clear on my army list, but I thought that the unit configurations might do so - Ghazghkull is in a battlewagon with 18 boyz, and the KFF is in a battlewagon with the Burnas.

I'm not sure I agree with all the...."assurance" about long ranged firepower nuking my army. I've done my share of math-hammering out lascannons hurting my battlewagons; and we're talking about less than 3% chance of a lascannon shot ever doing anything to a battlewagon. In simplest turns, you're going to hit with half your shots. You're going to miss with half your shots. More than half of the hits won't get through armor, and out of the ones that do, I'll ignore half of them, and this is before even talking about what gets rolled on the vehicle damage chart.

I've fought my share of long ranged firepower and mechanized lists; seems like everyone runs mechanized lists now. =p Boarding planks really *do* make fantastic anti-tank. I'm a big fan of running a couple trukks up to a vehicle to get multiple boarding planks going, and I use the grabbin' klaws on my battlewagons to try immobilizing land raiders for auto-hits, and other fast-moving threatening things. I'm not going to make any kind of sweeping statements about my ability to tackle them because every game against an army like that is a concern, involves serious thought every turn...yeah.

Anyway, I'm looking for more "Here's my army and here's why it will beat you" than "You're going to have trouble with..."

Thanks!

I'm not talking about taking out your battle wagons. I am talking about taking out your truks. If I can take out your truks, I'm ok with the battlewagons vs my rhinos, grey hunters and the rest of my army.

You don't seriously think that even with cover saves, that 12 autocannons, 5 lascannons, d6 str 8 shots hitting on 2's and 10 missile launchers cannot deal with your truks?

Alright, now this looks like fun. I'll admit, your list has me concerned, but I think I know how to beat it.

Sorcerer Lord Nikolii, MoN, Winds of Chaos, 150
Father's Envoy, the Great Unclean One (Greater Daemon), 100
7 Possessed Marines, Champ, Icon of Nurgle, Rhino, 277
7 Plague Marines, Personal Icon, 2 Meltaguns, Champ, Combi-Flamer, Rhino, 246
6 Noise Marines, Personal Icon, 5 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Champ, Rhino with Havoc Launcher, 255
7 Plague Bearers (Lesser Daemons), 91
7 Plague Bearers (Lesser Daemons), 91
4 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Slaanesh, 172
2 Obliterators, 150
Predator, Lascannon Turret and Sponsons, 165
Defiler, TL Heavy Flamer, CCW, 150
1847

All I have to do is keep your hammers away and I can weather the storm. Castle up to keep Snikrot at bay and blow Gazzy's wagon away. He won't be making it to combat until turn 4 with Slow and Purposeful. I'll keep the Burna Boyz away if I can, but that is less important. My Possessed, Plaguers and Defiler can ward off 4 Trukk Mobs, especially if I pull the Rhinos in a semi-circle. Of course, my strategy will change dramatically if I get Furious Charge on my Possessed and the Greater Daemon on turn two, but so long as I can keep Ghazzy and the Burna Boyz away I am golden.

despoiler52 wrote:

Eidolon wrote:12 boyz are rarely a serious threat to anything, even on the charge they will rarely dominate and 12 boyz cannot win the war of attrition, they die almost as fast as guardsmen.

But you forget one very vital piece of information. You can very easily drop two or more squads onto the same unit, it is not a question of taking them out one at a time, they gang up as the situation demands. I'll try and make a hoard list that I think could take on the mekanised, my major advantage is that I wouldn't have to spend point to get into combet, I'd have you come to me.

It's very hard for the truk boyz to coordinate their attacks if they are foot slogging it across the board.

That my friend is not always true, with a little foresight you can get 3/4 or more of your army into assault on turn 2. It's all about practice. If you do it enogh you can replicate it. If you are refering to you killing his transports so that he can no longer coordinate then again you may delay the inevitable one turn, mabye.

despoiler52 wrote:If you are refering to you killing his transports so that he can no longer coordinate then again you may delay the inevitable one turn, mabye.

That's probably all most armies would need to whittle 12 man squads of Boyz down to managable levels. Throw in some tank shocks and it gets even tougher to coordinate those assaults.

Gornall wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:If you are refering to you killing his transports so that he can no longer coordinate then again you may delay the inevitable one turn, mabye.

That's probably all most armies would need to whittle 12 man squads of Boyz down to managable levels. Throw in some tank shocks and it gets even tougher to coordinate those assaults.

Thus just throws back to are origonal argumen about how there are more then 12 orks, imagine each as a 13 wound model, there are still 4 of them. Quantity is a quality in it's own right. So ya you kill 12 boys, then the other 36 get some serious revenge. Manage that.

Not to get too much into theory hammer, but I think what people are saying is once they're immobile it becomes "easier" to use vehicles/terrain/tarpits/etc to seperate the boyz into smaller groups and finish them. For example, I tank shock with Rhinos, pushing 2-3 squads back and seperating them from the one I'm going to kill that turn, allowing me to kill it and avoid all if not most of the counter-charge. Yeah, you kill my Rhinos probably, but then anyone inside or on the other side of the wreckage walks up and starts dropping shots/templates into bunched up Boyz. That or just keep doing it (imagine Eldar moving at 12" each turn with holo fields to get the full picture). And, let's be honest, those squads will probably be less than fearless after taking some wounds from explosions/shooting, so each of those tank shocks is forcing leadership tests.

And if get the charge off with even a lowly Tactical Squad against a 12 man Boyz squad, there's a good chance those Boyz are getting run down, leaving me free to handle the next 12 or so. Yeah, if I let you hit me with all your Boyz in 1-2 turns, then I'm toast, but as you're working hard to do that, I'm working hard to prevent it. Whoever does it the best wins.

despoiler52 wrote:

Gornall wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:If you are refering to you killing his transports so that he can no longer coordinate then again you may delay the inevitable one turn, mabye.

That's probably all most armies would need to whittle 12 man squads of Boyz down to managable levels. Throw in some tank shocks and it gets even tougher to coordinate those assaults.

Thus just throws back to are origonal argumen about how there are more then 12 orks, imagine each as a 13 wound model, there are still 4 of them. Quantity is a quality in it's own right. So ya you kill 12 boys, then the other 36 get some serious revenge. Manage that.

I don't need to manage the '12 boyz'. I just managed to get more than half of his boyz out of the fight with the other half. That's huge.

I plan on the battle wagons getting to me. That's ok. It's 40k. It's not like it's an auto win.

But I definitely like my odds with 48 boyz arriving one turn later (and possibly shot up some) than all of them hitting me at once.

Exactly. If you split the attack into 2+ waves, it becomes managable. It's generally when they all hit in one massive turn that you see armies crumble.

So consensus is that self hating/angry eldar and space wolves would probably molest this army?

Eidolon wrote:So consensus is that self hating/angry eldar and space wolves would probably molest this army?

I agree that some of the lists and tactics posted in this thread would make him the underdog in a fight. Lots of things could throw that off like terrain and missions.

However, nothing but raider spam truly molests this army, but that's not an all around list. I think pepper would concede that a list could be built that would just eat him for lunch.

That's not the purpose. He wanted to see some all around army lists that could give him a fight, what they would do so he could figure out what he should do and possibly even tweak his list.

I would say, judging from the responses and his replies, he is getting a lot of the feedback that he is looking for. He is taking it in and asking questions and not bashing anything.

Smart guy.

Dash of Pepper,

Here is my standard 1750 list

Librarian with Null Zone/Avenger

10 Marines, Lascannon, Plasmagun, Powerfist, Razorback with Las/Twin-Plas

10 Marines, Lascannon, Plasmagun, Powerweapon, Razorback with Las/Twin-Plas

10 Marines, Missile Launcher, Plasmagun, Powerfist, Razorback with Las/Twin-Plas

10 Marines, Missile Launcher, Plasmagun, Powerweapon, Razorback with Las/Twin-Plas

Predator with Lascannon Sponsons

Predator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Thunderfire Cannon

3 AB with HBs

2 AB with MMs

Not sure what I would use the extra 100 points for. Probably a typhoon or two more MM bikes.

My 48" range firepower would focus on opening up your trucks turn one. Once the trucks are open, I can either use my HB platforms to kill additional trucks or deff koptas depending on their location & threat level. The MM bikes would position for cover and the ability to move into danger close range to pop a battlewagon turn two and act as a mobile screen. I'd be willing to sacrifice a tank or two to Snikrot and then use a tac squad with rapid fire to neuter his squad. The general game plan would be to disrupt the timing of your attack and make you hit my lines piecemeal. The Thunderfire will generally be last to fire just on the off chance that the AT firepower can expose Ghaz's mob or the burnas.

imweasel wrote:However, nothing but raider spam truly molests this army, but that's not an all around list.

If it's not (which I'm not sure I agree with) it is the most competitive option DE have and thus the most common DE build to see.

Thor665 wrote:

imweasel wrote:However, nothing but raider spam truly molests this army, but that's not an all around list.

If it's not (which I'm not sure I agree with) it is the most competitive option DE have and thus the most common DE build to see.

Oops. My bad. I meant land raider spam.

DE raider spam good and is an all around list!

Oh god a 3 crusader/redeemer army would eat this list for breakfast.

heres my 1850 marine list which I think would do pretty well. I built it largely with the goal of handling rhino spam, so it would do pretty good against speed freaks me thinks.


lysander-200

5 thunder hammer terminators-200

Land raider -275
Multi melta, extra armor

Tactical squad-220
10 marines, sergeant with power fist/ combi melta, melta gun, lascannon

Tactical squad-220
10 marines, sergeant with power fist/ combi melta, melta gun, lascannon

Razorback-twin linked lascannon

Tactical squad-220
10 marines, sergeant with power fist/combi melta, melta gun, lascannon

Razorback-75
Twin linked lascannons

Vindicator-130
Extra armor

Vindicator-130
Extra armor, dozer blade

Thunderfire canon-100

Well, I've never fought an Ork mech list but I've fought almost everything else. I'll list my common load outs at 1850:

HQ

Kharn

( bigger battles see the addition of a DP of Nurgle with wings and Nurgles Rot )

Troops

10 Berzerkers
- Champ PF
- Rhino

9 Berzerkers
- in LR with Kharn
- sometimes has a champ with PW

7 Plague Marines
- 2 x PG
- Rhino

7 Plague Marines
- 2 x MG
- Rhino

Fast Attack

6 Bikers
- MoN
- 2 x MG
- Sometimes 5 bikes with a champ and PF

Heavy Support

2 x Obliterators ( against friends the Obliterators are defilers to have less of a tourny feel yet often there more effective )

2 x Obliterators

Land Raider
- Possesed
- Dozer blade


So like I said I've never faced a list like yours but I've gone up against lists that just want to get me into close combat and I've never lost against those.

I seem to have an affinity for getting Kharn into the right situations, I've never lost him to a PF or IC getting the jump on him, I don't know how but he always gets the charge. I'd be keeping the Oblits close to the rest so I can twin link flame if the opportunity arises, deploying them up instead of behind. Of course I'd want the bikes to put a stop to Gaz and his wagon but there roll is totally going to depend on who goes first and the more I think about it there role is very diminished against your list unless I can at least get 2 MG shots on you before your assault. So with that in mind I'd use them as a wall to help Kharn get to pick his target.

I'm going to add more but I'm geting tired, but as a summary I think most of the battle would have to be a dance with me trying very hard to get the berzerkers where I need them. I win most of my battles by out manuevering people and making sure the dice work in my favour.

I'll try to post more tomorow.

DarkHound wrote:Alright, now this looks like fun. I'll admit, your list has me concerned, but I think I know how to beat it.

Sorcerer Lord Nikolii, MoN, Winds of Chaos, 150
Father's Envoy, the Great Unclean One (Greater Daemon), 100
7 Possessed Marines, Champ, Icon of Nurgle, Rhino, 277
7 Plague Marines, Personal Icon, 2 Meltaguns, Champ, Combi-Flamer, Rhino, 246
6 Noise Marines, Personal Icon, 5 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Champ, Rhino with Havoc Launcher, 255
7 Plague Bearers (Lesser Daemons), 91
7 Plague Bearers (Lesser Daemons), 91
4 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Slaanesh, 172
2 Obliterators, 150
Predator, Lascannon Turret and Sponsons, 165
Defiler, TL Heavy Flamer, CCW, 150
1847

All I have to do is keep your hammers away and I can weather the storm. Castle up to keep Snikrot at bay and blow Gazzy's wagon away. He won't be making it to combat until turn 4 with Slow and Purposeful. I'll keep the Burna Boyz away if I can, but that is less important. My Possessed, Plaguers and Defiler can ward off 4 Trukk Mobs, especially if I pull the Rhinos in a semi-circle. Of course, my strategy will change dramatically if I get Furious Charge on my Possessed and the Greater Daemon on turn two, but so long as I can keep Ghazzy and the Burna Boyz away I am golden.

Darkhound:

I ran into serious problems with the old IG Codex - A friend of mine who has won his share of GTs over the years played drop-troop catachans, and his entire army was deep-striking (except for a tank or three, hellhounds sometimes) and he would deep strike his entire army around my army and melta-flamer me at close range. One squad of (5?) would melta/kill a trukk and the next unit would flame the unit inside dead, and the units were small enough and cheap enough that if he deepstruck poorly he had others to make up for it.

Is this a take-all-comers list you have there, or built for me? Also, I haven't had the opportunity to fight demons very often - when I see them its usually a couple of soul-grinders, some demon princes, and some of those obscene invul save guys that congregate on objectives (and other things). Keep in mind that while Ghazghkull is slow and purposeful, he's also an IC, so he gets 3d6 instead of 2d6. And my vehicles *do* travel in a tight pack - if his battlewagon gets dropped, he just hops into the KFF+burna's battlewagon and keeps trukkin'.

I'm not very familiar with demons, weapon strengths etc...so could you answer this for me - where is the anti-tank in that list? What's the range on the various forms of it? Could you elaborate on your deep-striking anti-tank for me?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also a couple other notes:

Over time, I'm going to try getting some of these lists created by people around here and played against me.

Also, I think raider spam *is* a take-all-comers list. My wife and I are in the middle of painting raiders for my dark eldar army, which hasn't taken the table for a game yet, and my list is raider spam with mini-sniper squads to get more dark lances. =p

In terms of fast armies (Eldar in particular), I've had some interesting games against those army types that involve me chasing down a vehicle at a time, failing to ram it because they are skimmers and get a 2+ or a 3+ get out of the way roll, then trying to boarding plank them, or even dumping out and surrounding it to try getting more hits to kill it. Frustrating fights.

As for creating multiple waves in my army by dropping my transports...I won't claim that I always get my vehicles across the field unscathed; in a lot of games, by the end of it I only have 1-2 vehicles left (sometimes less). When my boyz get disembarked early, they start in cover (trukk wreckage is 4+), and I try to keep them in cover wherever they're going - I'm a big fan of stringing a squad of boyz out 2" apart to hold multiple objectives. It does suck losing squads of boyz early on because they're disembarked and can't get into the fight...but I have to reiterate that I don't fight army vs. army. It isn't my army smashing into your army for a general brawl, and however much makes it across the field dictates my chances for winning the brawl...I treat my army as a wrecking ball. Its going to smash into a piece of your army. Just a few units. Whatever is available when I get where I'm going determines how much I assault, and where. I typically drop Ghazghkull off by himself to tangle up the biggest meanest unit (lately that's been a Runepriest, Ajax, multiple terminators), and I'll let him spend his turn + the following enemy turn dealing with them while he has his 2+ invulnerable save, then the following turn when his invul save is gone, I'll smack some boyz into the mess and make my opponent decide whether he wants to try killing Ghazghkull who's 2+ invul save is gone, or deal with the boyz who are going to molest them.

I guess I'm saying that I understand what being disembarked means, and there's a running tally through the first couple of turns about where I'm going and what I'm trying to assault based on my available units and enemy deployment. I think the most difficult scenarios I'd face right now would be raider spam (obvious) and a castled up army. I *really* count on people spreading units around so that I can pick a piece of the fight and have at it. Castling up in a tight deployment would somewhat deny me the ability to surgically remove a piece of army, then turning to deal with the rest.

Is this a take-all-comers list you have there, or built for me? Also, I haven't had the opportunity to fight demons very often - when I see them its usually a couple of soul-grinders, some demon princes, and some of those obscene invul save guys that congregate on objectives (and other things). Keep in mind that while Ghazghkull is slow and purposeful, he's also an IC, so he gets 3d6 instead of 2d6. And my vehicles *do* travel in a tight pack - if his battlewagon gets dropped, he just hops into the KFF+burna's battlewagon and keeps trukkin'.

I'm not very familiar with demons, weapon strengths etc...so could you answer this for me - where is the anti-tank in that list? What's the range on the various forms of it? Could you elaborate on your deep-striking anti-tank for me?


I think this is directed at me, since I'm the only one that has posted a daemon list, I think. That is my all comers-list. You can see it in several different battle report's here on dakka.
So here is a break down of what each of the unit's do in my list.

HQ
Herald on Chariot, jetbike, 3 str 5 ap3 shots, 1 str 8 ap1 shot at bs 4, all at 24"
Herald on Chariot, jetbike, 3 str 5 ap3 shots, 1 str 8 ap1 shot at bs 4, all at 24"
Herald on Chariot, jetbike, 3 str 5 ap3 shots, 1 str 8 ap1 shot at bs 4, all at 24"
The Blue Scribes, have all of the weapons metioned in my list, plus a few other's.

Elites
3 Flamers, each has 3str 4 ap4 shots at 18", or a flamer template that always wounds on 4+, and auto-glances vehicles on a 4+
3 Flamers, each has 3str 4 ap4 shots at 18", or a flamer template that always wounds on 4+, and auto-glances vehicles on a 4+
3 Flamers, each has 3str 4 ap4 shots at 18", or a flamer template that always wounds on 4+, and auto-glances vehicles on a 4+

Troops
5 Horrors, each has 3 str 4 ap4 shots at 18", on has a 1str 8 ap1 shot at 24", bs3
5 Horrors, each has 3 str 4 ap4 shots at 18", on has a 1str 8 ap1 shot at 24", bs3
5 Horrors, each has 3 str 4 ap4 shots at 18", on has a 1str 8 ap1 shot at 24", bs3
5 Horrors, each has 3 str 4 ap4 shots at 18", on has a 1str 8 ap1 shot at 24", bs3

Fast Attack
4 Screamers, all jetbikes with melta bomb's
4 Screamers, all jetbikes with melta bomb's
4 Screamers, all jetbikes with melta bomb's

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince, 3 str 5 ap3 shots, 1 str 8 ap1 shot at bs 5, all at 24"
Daemon Prince, 3 str 5 ap3 shots, 1 str 8 ap1 shot at bs 5, all at 24"
Daemon Prince, 3 str 5 ap3 shots, 1 str 8 ap1 shot at bs 5, all at 24"

So an initial wave of 3 chariots, 3 daemon princes (I would probably make sure the horror's were more than 24 away from you). Dish's out 6 str 8 ap1 shots and 18 str 5 ap3 shots. Half of those hitting on 3's, half of them hitting on 2's. If I do decide to go gutsy with the horror's I can lump in a further 2 str 8 ap1 shots and 24 str 4 shots into your truks. The initial strategy will be to pop trucks and ignore your battle wagons unless you present me with side shots. All of the chariots can split fire, so they can feasibly shoot their str8 shot at the side of a wagon and the str 5 shots into truks.

But remember if you are tightly packed i'm going to try and put flamers in my first wave. The flamer template depending on how tightly packed you are will net me 3-4 hits per template. So a single squad of 3 landing on target or close by will get me 4-6 glancing hit's on 3-4 of your vehicles and since it's a flamer template it ignores cover so no kff. And I don't care about blowing it up, I'm looking for stunned, immobilized or wrecked. So since you are open topped that's a result of 3,5,6 which means that one flamer squad is stopping 2 of your vehicles. If 2 of them land close enough to do something that's 4. You are rapidly running out of mobile vehicles. Anything sitting around will be in serious danger of the melta bomb toting screamers the next turn. And your stuff that does get to move will be blocked after that first turn by the screamers, who will be interleaved forcing multiple tank shock attacks if at all possible.

Interesting....thanks for the reply.

demon princes are BS5.

Shame on you warmaster! haha

I fight a player locally all the time who fields Daemons - and that army does require some interesting footwork at times. Flamers certainly eat massed Raiders for breakfast - I had to learn to really spread out my line so his deepstrikes could only catch a Raider at a time.

The thing with daemons is they usually obligate you to play your list in a way that is different from how you play everyone else.

Shep wrote:demon princes are BS5.

Shame on you warmaster! haha

It was a cut and paste error, I got it right in the summary! I blame having to do some actual work.

I've said it before, daemons are nasty and rare enough that most folks have no idea how to face them. They present an interesting challenge for the mechanized and small model count armies, for sure. Most of their tricks seem to be nailing high tactical-value targets in a big wave, then mopping up the rest, so they have trouble with the horde armies that can counter punch. I saw someone with an ork loota/shoota army (3 loota units, 120 shoota boyz, plus the rest of the fun) ANNIHILATE the daemons even after losing half their army in the first deepstrike wave because half an ork shooty army can still throw 200+ dice of shooting at you in a single turn.

I've found a good tactic against daemons is keeping your army in reserve and utilizing your maneuver speed to hit them as they land on the table. If you give them a massed target, they can kill you (damn flamer templates), but if you get the charge, you can wipe them out like any other army. Of course, the uncertainty of reserves makes this risky, but so's sitting in formation waiting to be deep-striked.

I think theres a pair of reasons you dont see demons at many tournaments or winning a lot of events.
The first being that armies with mystics or null zone make the game very very tough for a demons army.
The second being that its easy to get screwed hard by deep striking.

I agree with Eidolon - daemon armies suffer due to a handful of armies out there being able to almost totally nerf them even before they hit the board.

They are interesting to fight though, because as I said they do play by basically a different ruleset then all other armies.

I'd use this list:

Stelek wrote:
2000 Pts - Eldar Roster - MechDar Redux

1 Autarch @ 80 pts ((pp.29 & 60 Eldar); Fleet; Independent Character; Master Strategist; Forceshield; Shuriken Pistol; Fusion Gun; Haywire Grenades; Plasma Grenades)

5 Fire Dragons @ 225 pts ((pp.32 & 62 Eldar); Fleet; Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs)
1 Wave Serpent ((pp.45 & 63 Eldar); Energy Field; Shuriken Cannon; TL Bright Lances)

5 Fire Dragons @ 225 pts ((pp.32 & 62 Eldar); Fleet; Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs)
1 Wave Serpent ((pp.45 & 63 Eldar); Energy Field; Shuriken Cannon; TL Bright Lances)

5 Fire Dragons @ 225 pts ((pp.32 & 62 Eldar); Fleet; Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs)
1 Wave Serpent ((pp.45 & 63 Eldar); Energy Field; Shuriken Cannon; TL Bright Lances)

1 Vyper Squadron @ 180 pts ((pp.41 & 65 Eldar))
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)

1 Vyper Squadron @ 180 pts ((pp.41 & 65 Eldar))
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)

1 Vyper Squadron @ 180 pts ((pp.41 & 65 Eldar))
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)
1 Vyper (Shuriken Cannon; Shuriken Cannon)

1 Falcon @ 175 pts ((pp.42 & 67 Eldar); Holo-Field; Scatter Laser; Shuriken Cannon; Pulse Laser)
5 Dire Avengers @ 60 pts ((pp.30 & 64 Eldar); Fleet; Avenger S-Catapult)

1 Falcon @ 175 pts ((pp.42 & 67 Eldar); Holo-Field; Scatter Laser; Shuriken Cannon; Pulse Laser)
5 Dire Avengers @ 60 pts ((pp.30 & 64 Eldar); Fleet; Avenger S-Catapult)

1 Falcon @ 175 pts ((pp.42 & 67 Eldar); Holo-Field; Scatter Laser; Shuriken Cannon; Pulse Laser)
5 Dire Avengers @ 60 pts ((pp.30 & 64 Eldar); Fleet; Avenger S-Catapult)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Yes, that's 84 S6 shots a turn. Yes, I've been testing this army against the new Tyranids. There are also 9 S8 AP2 shots a turn. Granted, all of this is BS3, but that's ok isn't it?

You also have, if needed, 15 Fire Dragons (15 meltagun shots) and 15 Dire Avengers (30 Avenger shots).

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/12/eldar-analysis-different-way-of-doing.html

I don't think it would have much trouble with OP list.

kadun, thanks for copying an army list you didn't make, contributing nothing useful about its units or tactics (I don't know a whole lot about Eldar)...

And most obviously, not even meeting the requirements here. Feel free to take that list and configure it to the point settings here, and elaborate on how you'd use it instead of "my list pwns yours" which is completely useless feedback. Thanks!

Hey Dash, I'm not certain what was meant for me in that post. It seemed all of it was better suited as a response to Warmaster. Can you elaborate?

Dashofpepper wrote:kadun, thanks for copying an army list you didn't make, contributing nothing useful about its units or tactics (I don't know a whole lot about Eldar)...

And most obviously, not even meeting the requirements here. Feel free to take that list and configure it to the point settings here, and elaborate on how you'd use it instead of "my list pwns yours" which is completely useless feedback. Thanks!

Dash, feel free to click on the link provided. There is lots of additional information about how to use the list. There is also discussion on how to trim the list to 1850 (cut a viper from each squadron).

As far as beating your original list, what I would do is sac 2 Wave Serpents and 10 Fire Dragons to bring down your Battlewagons (if you're using them to screen your trukks and if I don't get lucky with Bright Lances against the front and/or Pulse Lasers against side armor). Your trukks then die pretty easily and your foot sloggers would be no match for the rest of the lists mobile firepower.