Undercover cop pulls his gun for being hit with a snowball

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**Fateweaver**

I think the problem is that some posters don't consider throwing a snowball at a cop (or any individual) as assault. Maliciously throwing a snowball at a cop is assault. SOMEONE threw a snowball at the cop because they wanted to insult the cop further or were taking out their anger on him for halting their little political "tantrum" for a few minutes.

Gotta love how an undercover cop was exposed. He'll probably never be an UC again with his face plastered all over youtube.

GJ tree huggers.

**Orkeosaurus**

I don't know that he has the material to be a cop of any sort.

**Cane**

DELETED Whoops sorry, I'll respond once I read up on that post.

**Kanluwen**

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8425683.stm

The BBC wrote:
Witnesses describe the scene at the snowball fight - footage from Reason.TV

A senior police official in Washington DC has said an off-duty officer who drew a gun at a snowball fight behaved in a "totally inappropriate" way.

Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy Lanier said video footage left "no doubt" the officer drew his gun after his vehicle, a Hummer, was pelted with snowballs.

The footage showed an angry crowd gathering, chanting: "You don't bring a gun to a snowball fight".

Ms Lanier said the officer had been placed on desk duty.

She said he had not denied the allegations.

Is a statement, Ms Lanier said she had reviewed all the video footage of the incident taken by the public and it was "very obvious" the officer had drawn his police-issue gun "in response to the snowballs hitting his vehicle".

"I have no doubt about this, nor has the officer denied the accusations," she said.

"Let me be very clear in stating that I believe the actions of the officer were totally inappropriate!

"In no way, should he have handled the situation in this manner."

Assistant Police Chief Peter Newsham told reporters the detective, who has not been officially named, had more than 25 years of experience.

"He has a very good reputation," he told the Associated Press.

'Disturbing'

The incident took place on Saturday, as a large crowd of people were taking part in a mass snowball fight in the US capital during a blizzard.
Snow in Washington DC, US (19 December 2009)
Washington DC has been hit by the worst snow storms in years

Snowballs were thrown at the man's car and as he got out he exposed his gun briefly, always pointing towards the snow on the ground.

Panicked residents can be heard shouting, "He's got a gun," but others continue to throw snowballs his way.

At one point on the video - shown on YouTube - the man identifies himself as a "detective", but refuses to give his full name.

Then he proceeds to admit to pulling his gun.

"Yes I did because I got hit by snowballs," he tells angry residents who demand to know his badge number.

He challenges them to "throw another snowball".

The confrontation ended only when other policemen were despatched to the scene, and managed to calm everyone down.

Ms Lanier said the officer's actions "in no way, reflects the training and the standards" of the Washington DC Police Department.

She said it was disturbing that the "negative actions of one officer" had eclipsed the work of the police force during the blizzard.

**Cane**

Fateweaver wrote:I think the problem is that some posters don't consider throwing a snowball at a cop (or any individual) as assault. Maliciously throwing a snowball at a cop is assault. SOMEONE threw a snowball at the cop because they wanted to insult the cop further or were taking out their anger on him for halting their little political "tantrum" for a few minutes.

Gotta love how an undercover cop was exposed. He'll probably never be an UC again with his face plastered all over youtube.

GJ tree huggers.

Was he really UC like how Hollywood thinks of it like in The Departed?

Or was he undercover like basically all detectives are undercover that don't wear the blue uniform? I don't see in the article where it says he was undercover but won't be the first time I misread something.

**Fateweaver**

Obviously he does or he wouldn't be. He made a dumb choice and thankfully nobody got hurt, the cop included. Yeah it could have gotten really ugly real quick but on the other hand the situation (snowball fight) should not have been allowed to happen in the first place.

It stopped being an innocent snowball fight when the fighters started throwing snowballs at innocents in cars. Yeah the article said the fighters "claimed" some passers by dared them to throw snowballs at them but it also says they were throwing snowballs at "gas guzzlers" due to political leanings.

Appears to me they say they were dared because they want to cover up the fact they willfully targeted people not initially involved.

**Kilkrazy**

At any rate, police were on the scene, they did not have to call the Riot Squad or SWAT Team, and they hustled away the gun pulling cop.

On the basis of that evidence we must suppose that either the police were accepting of the snowball situation or that the crowd was so heavily armed that there was not point in offering any resistance.

**Kanluwen**

Actually Fate, he DOES "dare them to keep throwing snowballs" after he's reholstered his gun and they're talking smack at him while he's on the radio.

Kinda funny how that one works.

**Orkeosaurus**

Fateweaver wrote:Obviously he does or he wouldn't be. He made a dumb choice and thankfully nobody got hurt, the cop included. Yeah it could have gotten really ugly real quick but on the other hand the situation (snowball fight) should not have been allowed to happen in the first place.

Overreacting in that manner puts innocents at risk and causes far more significant problems down the road for future dealings between the police and the city's citizens.

If he's served 25 years he's probably not some sort of unbalanced lunatic. What he did was still unacceptable, though. He's hurt the integrity of his department. I think the ~~NYPD~~ DC police department should consider this carefully when deciding what to do about his actions.

It stopped being an innocent snowball fight when the fighters started throwing snowballs at innocents in cars. Yeah the article said the fighters "claimed" some passers by dared them to throw snowballs at them but it also says they were throwing snowballs at "gas guzzlers" due to political leanings.

Appears to me they say they were dared because they want to cover up the fact they willfully targeted people not initially involved.

It sounds like this was going on in part. I don't know to what extent this was going on, though.

While I would condone any realistic attempts to punish those who are actively trying to hit people not looking to be involved in the snowball fight, I don't know that its feasible given the bedlam of the whole thing, and the fact that a snowball hitting a car probably isn't going to do any actual damage.

**Fateweaver**

I don't see the relevance in wether or not he was a "Hollywood" UC or a non-Hollywood cop dressed as a civvie.

He was wrong, he admits it and as much as some posters want to think otherwise "I" admit he was wrong but the crowd was no more right and I wonder just why or how people were permitted to throw snowballs at cars that they felt were not green enough or who's passengers supposedly dared them to throw snow.

It seems as if the D.C law enforcement is only worried about saving their rep and not looking into the other matter at hand; a mini-political demonstration.

**Kanluwen**

Orkeosaurus wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:Obviously he does or he wouldn't be. He made a dumb choice and thankfully nobody got hurt, the cop included. Yeah it could have gotten really ugly real quick but on the other hand the situation (snowball fight) should not have been allowed to happen in the first place.
Overreacting in that manner puts innocents at risk and causes far more significant problems down the road for future dealings between the police and the city's citizens.

If he's served 25 years he's probably not some sort of unbalanced lunatic. What he did was still unacceptable, though. He's hurt the integrity of his department. I think the NYPD should consider this carefully when deciding what to do about his actions.

It stopped being an innocent snowball fight when the fighters started throwing snowballs at innocents in cars. Yeah the article said the fighters "claimed" some passers by dared them to throw snowballs at them but it also says they were throwing snowballs at "gas guzzlers" due to political leanings.

Appears to me they say they were dared because they want to cover up the fact they willfully targeted people not initially involved.
It sounds like this was going on in part. I don't know to what extent this was going on, though.

While I would condone any realistic attempts to punish those who are actively trying to hit people not looking to be involved in the snowball fight, I don't know that its feasible given the bedlam of the whole thing, and the fact that a snowball hitting a car probably isn't going to do any actual damage.

What the hell does the NYPD have to do with anything?

**Orkeosaurus**

You're right, what do they?

For some reason I was thinking this was NYC, instead of DC. (Fixed)

**Kilkrazy**

Is it actually illegal to take part in a political demonstration in the USA?

I thought you guys were pretty keen on freedom of speech and stuff.

**Fateweaver**

I suppose Kan the cop felt what they were doing was illegal and so he "dared" them to keep throwing snowballs at people not involved in the fight.

For the most part snowballs are harmless but what's to say that someone wasn't going to decide to pack a rock or some ice with snow and throw it.

It's also the act. From 50 feet away a paintball shot from a paintball gun at a car is not going to hurt the car (I know this for fact) but if you go firing paintballs at cars, even at a range that won't hurt the vehicle you will be jailed, fined or both.

So yeah, the fact that it was known to DC police and the DoT and nothing was done to stop it still baffles me as it COULD have gotten out of control and a mob of adults should not be allowed to gather for something like that, especially when it started becoming a political protest.

**Kanluwen**

You threw me for a hell of a loop there Ork

I thought there was ANOTHER gun/snowball incident in NYC.

We all know how that would end either way.

**Fateweaver**

You can protest legally if your actions do not directly affect those not involved or have the potential for harm.

Throwing snowballs at cars because you don't think they are "fuel efficient" is not a peacable demonstration and could result in injury or property damage.

Obviously DC didn't get any complaints (that we know of) but that doesn't make what started happening right.

**JohnHwangDD**

Empchild wrote:pulling out his weapon was excessive, and thank god he didn't fire it,

If he did, somebody would have been right to put him down - that's ADW and no badge in sight.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Actually Fate, he DOES "dare them to keep throwing snowballs"

Works for me.

**FITZZ**

Well,I'll certainly sleep better knowing the streets are safe from snowball hurling scallywags.
Seriously,the officer over reacted to the point of being ridiculous,he should be fired.

**Lord-Loss**

That cop is a complete idiot, they shouldnt allow people like that to become cops.

What a frigging killjoy.

**sebster**

Fateweaver wrote:Gotta love how an undercover cop was exposed. He'll probably never be an UC again with his face plastered all over youtube.

Tee hee.

A guy's car is hit by a snowball. He gets out of the car, identifies himself as a cop to the large number of people present and then draws a gun. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he probably wasn't on any kind of Donnie Brasco operation, and if he was he really, really shouldn't have been.

**Sidstyler**

A couple things...

Bad place for a snowball fight, especially seeing as how the whole thing was organized and pre-planned. Why not a park or something more sensible? The middle of downtown doesn't sound like a good idea.

Throwing snowballs at people who don't want to be involved, especially cars, is stupid. Sure, it's a snowball, they're just having fun, but I'd be pissed off too if I was going about my business and some freaking gak starts throwing gak at me, or my car. I've already been victim of a hit and run twice now, which did $550 worth of damage to my car that I've still yet to fix...I do not take that crap lightly. I don't want anyone doing anything to my car, I don't care if it is just snow, it's a huge sign of disrespect and you will pay if you so much as scratch the paint.

We'll never know for sure unless we were there, but personally I doubt the claims that the drivers were "taunting" them. More likely they rolled down their windows to tell them to get the hell out the way or to yell at them for hitting their car.

Once the snowball fight stopped being fun, it should have stopped. You don't start throwing them at cars and making a political statement out of "boredom", that's not a snowball fight anymore.

The cop shouldn't have drawn his gun, in fact he probably shouldn't have even gotten out of his car. But that really is over the top, and I personally find it disturbing that a cop is so eager to draw his weapon in a situation like that. Definitely excessive.

My opinion: the idiots brought it on themselves for acting irresponsibly and throwing gak at cars. The cop made a huge mistake and is now paying for it. Some people don't know when to keep their mouths shut.

EDIT: Jeez, that was more...colorful than I planned on it being. Well most of the language is filtered so hopefully I won't get in trouble for that. Again.

**Fateweaver**

Oh I'm sure parts of the recording were left off youtube. Since no crime has been deemed as being committed by the snowball throwers they won't ever be required to show the entire thing, only what the want people to see.

They play the part of the victims which is laughable because for a few moments the cop was a victim and anyone they threw snowballs at for driving "gas guzzlers" were victims too.

I was shocked when I read they were D.C college students and not UC Berkely students.

**Emperors Faithful**

Good to see that good old paranoia isn't dead yet.

**Ahtman**

Kilkrazy wrote:Is it actually illegal to take part in a political demonstration in the USA?

I thought you guys were pretty keen on freedom of speech and stuff.

You can but need a permit. We are also keen on bureaucracy.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Good to see that good old paranoia isn't dead yet.

WHO TOLD YOU?! Is it safe?

**Frazzled**

Fateweaver wrote:I still don't see anyone defending the cop. I sure as hell am not.

I'm just saying that the cop did have a right, after it was made clear he was a cop, to want to arrest that guy for throwing a snowball at him. It is assault. No ifs, ands or buts.

Try it. Throw a snowball at a cop and see where it gets you. It'll get you a fine, some jail time or both.

Arrest is one thing. He had no right under color of law to draw the weapon. I restate: he should be charged with assault with a deadly weapon and fired.

**JohnHwangDD**

Maybe he thought that the snowball was a WMD?

**bigfood**

Could it be possible that the officer drew his weapon not for defense or threatening the crowd in a ´bad´ way but to
´play along´ in a kind of way? He didn´t point the weapon at anybody I think,and later he just stood there, kicking snow and maybe even trying to form a snowball, too ( I think at the beg. of video)
I know you don´t `play` with guns, but I think it´s possible that he thought : Hah, they´re throwing snowballs at me. Then I will look if i am able to scare them. It´s like a game getting out of control.
Some people in the crowd are very agitated and you can see how fast it turns into a mob. I can undertand that you get aggressive if you feel threatened, but I felt sorry for the officer when he was
hit by the ball and shouted at. I think the game getting out of control is what happened here, with good intentions on both sides in the beginning and an aggressive mob that was dealt with in a hard way in the end.

**Fateweaver**

Oh I'm not denying he should be punished somewhat for pulling his gun. It was pointed at the ground the entire time so it's not as if he threatened anyone with it. Perhaps he felt by having it out that the crowd would disperse on it's own but even so I agree he should be punished.

The snowball that was thrown and hit him in the back as he turned to leave was thrown at him AFTER the fact. He had the wrong guy but someone threw a snowball at him after the situation was diffused. THAT is assault.

**JohnHwangDD**

bigfood wrote: Could it be possible that the officer drew his weapon not for defense or threatening the crowd in a ´bad´ way but to
´play along´ in a kind of way?

Only if that "weapon" were an squirt gun toy and instantly visible as such (candy-coloring / blaze orange tip).

The guy was brandishing a loaded weapon in public, claiming to be a police officer but refusing to identify himself or provide his badge number.

There is no "playing" there, but if you think so, try it as a civilian, and see where it gets you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fateweaver wrote:Oh I'm not denying he should be punished somewhat for pulling his gun.

It was pointed at the ground the entire time so it's not as if he threatened anyone with it.

He should be fired for cause.

The simple fact that he's unholstered a deadly weapon is threat in and of itself.

**ShumaGorath**

:edit: Having read more of the thread now it looks like it's just fateweaver. Shock. Post edited.

The guy probably had a considerable amount of stress beyond what happened that day if he reacted in such a way.