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I read this whole thread, the thread that EmpChild linked to that preceded this, and a few links from within this thread... and I still can't tell what the heck is going on

I guess a lot of things are assumed and since I wasn't involved in any of it... I have no idea!!!

Those videos of the cheating while measuring were pretty hair-raising, though!

If this guy really did cheat, his prize should be revoked. At the very least he should not be allowed to go to Vegas.

Agreed. I was amazed at how much pre-measuring he did of his opponents models. The 10" lunge that he did with his warwalker was pretty nice too. The fact that there is actually video of this happening means that at the least he shouldn't be allowed to go to Vegas and personally if I was a TO and saw his name I'd tell him he's not allowed to play.

Everything on my site should be accurate as I was at the event as a spectator and watched the entire finals match.

The conquest results on there site are broken down by winners of prizes (not wanting to give out prizes to the same person twice) and does not represent the actual scores; that is what I used to base my lists on.

Here is a good link for all my coverage of the event.

http://bloodofkittens.com/?s=Seattle+GT

So ... has anyone shown this videos to the TO? Or sent them to GWUS as a complaint? I watch those videos - wow!

DUDE.

Ok.

I know this Nathaniel guy. He doesnt only cheat in games.

He cheats in real life.

http://www.blacklibrarystudios.com/tier2.html


My friend made that commission website for him. My friend owns the dedicated server for Rogue-market.
So hes not a web n00b. He made the site for nathaniel- and got only a few quid for his time.




familiar?

I see Nathaniel at g3 in redmond at times. But he skimped out on paying my friend money after he took access of the site and files.


Wow.

Disgrace to the fine, upstanding name of Nathaniel. :sniff:

Should just call this guy out whenever see him at any store.

Interestiing on the cheating, and as a normal player I would say revoke the win, BUT as an organizer of several events though cheating is not blatant if his opponents "DID NOT" report it on the spot to the judges then nothing can come of it. If you video taped and then showed the organizers and they did nothing then report it to GW. Otherwise it sucks but is a mute point.

P.S I do think 10 points is harsh as a deduction, but honestly warranted because well they did not do the job them selves. I for one would not do 10 points I would give them 1 since well I would treat it like it was a one tone job. Though I do applaud their honesty.

I say let him keep his win!

The reason why?

Here is how the Conquest GT did their sportsmanship scoring:

Tournament Scoring – Sportsmanship (50 points):
Please rate your opponent on their sportsmanship. If the answer is yes, check the box.
2 Points: Was your opponent prepared? (On time with all game accessories (dice, rules, templates, etc) and a copy of their army list for you).
2 Points: Was your opponent fair? (Measured correctly, consistent in die rolls, settled rules disputes amicably).
3 Points: Was your opponent friendly? (Introduced themselves, treated you with respect).
3 Points: Was your opponent fun to play?

If he did what everyone claims, he should have scored 5 points max a game because he did not measure correctly, and he was not fun to play. But what happened is that he scored 47 out of 50 possible points. If he was as bad as everyone says, then it was up to his opponents to stop him from winning the tournament and they didn't.

very true. it is his opponents fault as most of us gamers are just there to have fun and don't want to cause drama.
here are the standings
I know personally I should have given Chase a 2 out 10 but i didn't. Mainly because I lost horrible due to playing a bad game and didn't really want to be "that guy". but the opponent was an ass in hindsight. that would have pushed him down to 6th. I am sorry I did the other players a diservice.

http://bloghammer.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Conquest-Standing.pdf

If he got 47 out of 50 I have to say I really highly doubt he was cheating. This is another internet lynch party in process. It's disgusting.

G

I find it interesting that this player who was filmed cheating got a better sportsmanship score than others who played in the tournament. Sportsmanship scoring as it currently exists does not actually encourage good sportsmanship.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green Blow Fly wrote:If he got 47 out of 50 I have to say I really highly doubt he was cheating. This is another internet lynch party in process. It's disgusting.

G

Did you watch the video?

Premeasuring?

Moving way too far?

Seriously?

Most of the time these "OMG the winner cheated" threads are simply a he-said-she-said "lynch party" as you phrased it.

This time, he was caught red handed.

The only problem is that the other players and judges did very little about it.

I didnt see anything out of the ordinary. That people would videotape someone playing a game of toy soldiers tell me they must have a pathetic life.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I didnt see anything out of the ordinary. That people would videotape someone playing a game of toy soldiers tell me they must have a pathetic life.

G

Either that or they were taping the final round of a major tournament for some internet journalism on a blog?

@GBF

Watch the second video and keep an eye on the fire dragons. He deploys them then inches them forward by increments at least twice. Barely getting him into range for the fusion guns. Same thing with those Warp Spiders on the same side.

I agree that it is also up to the person playing to dock a sportsmanship score if the opponent is cheating. I'm not saying he shouldn't keep the win but I do think they should rescind the ticket to Vegas.

Hulksmash wrote:@GBF

Watch the second video and keep an eye on the fire dragons. He deploys them then inches them forward by increments at least twice. Barely getting him into range for the fusion guns. Same thing with those Warp Spiders on the same side.

I agree that it is also up to the person playing to dock a sportsmanship score if the opponent is cheating. I'm not saying he shouldn't keep the win but I do think they should rescind the ticket to Vegas.

See this is where I would disagree I don't think the thought of resending should een occur. The factis he won plain and simple, maybe he cheated maybe he didn't and peoplewant to seethings idkI can't watch atm cause i'm at work. What it comes down to those is his opponents didn't call ajudge so no infraction their. The person filming didn't point out or call a judge by the sound of it so no infraction their. If I point a gun at you and shoot you but no one tells the cops then I still am not guilty in the eyes of the law. Why because if no one will stand up then a conviction can't occur you get me?
t

Actually, in some states, you are guilty even if no one tells the police...

skyth wrote:Actually, in some states, you are guilty even if no one tells the police...

Sigh no feth, you missed the point entirely on that one. It means if no one reports it yes it is still wrong, but has no real effect in the end.

This is so far the most pathetic thread of 2010.

G

I've always come to Dakka looking for the latest news and gossip but I never post. However, after listening to these entertaining posts I had to add my two cents. I was at conquest and this was my first GT (I didn’t do to hot, placed #70) and just wanted to see how things were. I did not see too much cheating on my tables but there were many arguments going all around me with the guys who were actually winning. Is this the case with all Tourneys in Washington?

I thought it was kinda weird how nobody really cheered when it was announced that Nathaniel Williams won best overall, now this explains everything lol

Green Blow Fly wrote:This is so far the most pathetic thread of 2010.

G

thanks for pushing us to #1. We couldn't do it without you.

WAAAGH!!!BLITZROG wrote:I've always come to Dakka looking for the latest news and gossip but I never post. However, after listening to these entertaining posts I had to add my two cents. I was at conquest and this was my first GT (I didn’t do to hot, placed #70) and just wanted to see how things were. I did not see too much cheating on my tables but there were many arguments going all around me with the guys who were actually winning. Is this the case with all Tourneys in Washington?

I thought it was kinda weird how nobody really cheered when it was announced that Nathaniel Williams won best overall, now this explains everything lol

mmm arguements happen sadly as well grown kids seem to have bouts, but not always. I have seen tourneys at the same places go two different ways it just depends on the people really.

Second year at Conquest, not 1 bad game yet for me. Had to call a judge over a couple times to get an impartial ruling on some issues, but otherwise I'm 10 games in without a bad game. Now the missions on the other hand.....

Green Blow Fly wrote:If he got 47 out of 50 I have to say I really highly doubt he was cheating.

I've been thinking back on it, and this is a pretty good point. If the guy really was cheating or playing incorrectly or whatever, why did he get such high sports scores? I can assure you that if I came up against someone who was cheating, he would get a 0 on any soft scores I was allowed to assign at absolute minimum, and I would probably try to get him kicked out of the event. It's possible that this guy cheated while everyone else stood there and did nothing, but that seems quite dubious to me. Much of the stuff in that video looks pretty shady to me, but if he was really playing unfairly, why didn't anyone who was there do anything?

asugradinwa wrote:Second year at Conquest, not 1 bad game yet for me. Had to call a judge over a couple times to get an impartial ruling on some issues, but otherwise I'm 10 games in without a bad game. Now the missions on the other hand.....

lol Yeah the missions were garbage. Especially the one with 2 KP's for dedicated transports.

Chatting about wargames on an online forum with 6k posts. Versus a simple video with a flip cam for an internet blog.
I dont know the difference between whats pathetic and whats not.

Me owning a forum. Could be pathetic as well. Taking videos of the event with my HD camera could be High-Definition Pathetic too.
Then again - all of us playing with toy soldiers, spending hundreds- thousands of dollars.

Thats pathetic too.
So what difference, i guess we are all pathetic.




Last year, a golden daemon paint job was rejected due to cheating. So same can be said about cheating in a tourney.

Not rolling a 2d6 on warp spiders already breaks rule. Theres just a ton of funny jumbo there.



And lynch party - would require people that are actually jealous of his winning position. Otherwise what motive to bring this guy down? I didn't even participate. I dont care about being no. 1. But I know this guy - he goes to my LGS. This isn't the first conquest occurrence - and it isn't the only incident in which he has done some very sly things in Game, out of game, and business wise.

Just saying 2 cents. There's a lot of Northwest locals who knows this guy and have met with him personally

In truth I wasn't there on the last game, nor did I care to watch the guy in person 100% of the time.




http://www.youtube.com/user/ChristopherFryeWA

Another person who isn't from this forum - he works for privateer press.

1:10min.



His reputation is infamous.

Fetterkey wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:If he got 47 out of 50 I have to say I really highly doubt he was cheating.

I've been thinking back on it, and this is a pretty good point. If the guy really was cheating or playing incorrectly or whatever, why did he get such high sports scores? I can assure you that if I came up against someone who was cheating, he would get a 0 on any soft scores I was allowed to assign at absolute minimum, and I would probably try to get him kicked out of the event. It's possible that this guy cheated while everyone else stood there and did nothing, but that seems quite dubious to me. Much of the stuff in that video looks pretty shady to me, but if he was really playing unfairly, why didn't anyone who was there do anything?

These are just a bunch of extremely sore losers that had their collective arses handed to them on a silver platter and it seems they have too much idle time on their hands.



G

There are claims that a judge was notified of the cheating in the last game by an outsider of the game on BoK -- however that is disputed.

Also the cheating was obvious if you were really paying attention, but if you didn't know of him, it is very likely it would go unnoticed if used sparingly prior to the last game. Also very possible earlier games against easier opponents -- no reason to cheat so he didn't. Gerry won best general last year and this was the deciding game -- so more incentive to pull this kinda crap.

Finally, this was the same fella who played with unpainted models last year and displayed chaos dreads for appearance he did not play with. He was still allowed to attend by Avalon Conventions. So I dunno if the staff would have even been allowed to do anything drastic in this case had they known.

RogueMarket wrote:Chatting




http://www.youtube.com/user/ChristopherFryeWA

Another person who isn't from this forum - he works for privateer press.

1:10min.



His reputation is infamous.

AHHHH you are sorely mistaken frye no longer works for them.. long story and he I know for a fact cheats but thats not important. As par the pathetic that is more an attack you are making against green fly as oppossed to his general.