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LeperMessiah wrote:a clustered armor column is juicy pickings for a large blast to crack 2-3 rhinos/razorbacks in a single go.

Erm...how do you do that?

The killakanna is STR7, and when a blast lands...if it hits a vehicle that the hole isn't centered over, it does half damage (rounded down). That gives you a STR3 hit against anything that the hole didn't center over, or at best, a single STR7 hit.

Are you driving up to media PA for this GT on the 27th?

Indeed I am.

Already reserved my spot and got a hotel room, and took Friday off.

gonna sign up so ill see ya there!

Out of interest, what kind of top tier armies have you fought and beaten in the past?

You go to a lot of tournaments so i'd imagine you've fought some very powerful lists.

Even though this is the biggest tournament you've been to, you could probably decide what you can beat there.

Well, I'd like to think that I can beat them all. =p We'll find out.

I've played against Chimera spam and a leafblower variant (both a minor victory involving a unit of orks with only one model left that persevered), dual-lash, Space Wolf rhino/razorback spam, the triple land raider list...

I suffer trouble from the same things you'd expect me to - long range anti-tank and heavily mechanized lists. My games against IG have been at the 2500 point level, and I had Tankbustas that I don't have here.

*shrugs* I'm going to play very carefully, ask a lot of questions (I don't know every other army and its capabilities nearly well enough), and bring a binder with codex references / cheat sheets in it so that I can help determine threats on the battlefield.

I don't believe this is the most powerful ork list in creation, but it is well-rounded, has multiplicity, is simple, and I've long experience using it. My hope is that combining my familiarity with my list along with my tactical abilities will be enough to seize victory.

Well the GT lists won't be worse than ard' boys, thats for sure. So i'd imagine you'll be fine then.

Yeah, if you can beat mech guard you can handle everyone.(kinda)

Funny, I always thought pure BW spam orks was the best Ork list. Have you ever used that? I figured Mechanised Orks would have at least 3 wagons with some trukks.

Anyway, Deffkoptas+Snikrot can really disrupt people early on, test them against gunlines, they're quite useful.

I think the army suffers from over-simplification. It does something very well, drive across the table and punch stuff in the face. Unfortunately that is literally all that it can do, nothing else. My mech eldar army has zero to fear from your shooting. And my 1850 wolf list could take this for a ride. Gobs of missiles WILL stop trukks. I dont care about the wagon, let the boyz take out a squad of grey hunters, they get shot next turn. But the trukks, all I need is to keep them from moving. If you dont have extra armor you are fethed, since any list with decent shooting can easily keep half your army from going anywhere in vehicles. And squads of 12 orks on foot are dead orks. They are only slightly harder to kill then guardsmen.

I would seriously watch out for guard, space wolves, shooty marines, mechdar and dark eldar played by good players. Your list is designed to inflict a massive turn 2 charge, sweeping your opponent. Problem is it doesnt have much staying power. Charge 10 grey hunters with one wulfen, with 12 boyz. God knowd you arent killing any of them with shooting. They swing first and kill 7 boyz. You get 4 boyz going back, which means a mere 16 attacks, 8 hits, 4 wounds, oh noes 1 dead marine. Klaw kills 2 more. So you are at minus 4 to leadership and get ran off. Add in the firepower and you arent getting the maximum charges.

I refer to armies like this n00bchecks or n00bcrushers. They are very good at doing one thing to the exception of all else. People either know how to beat it or they dont. If you are winning as much as you say you are I fully recommend finding some big events and playing some very good players, it probably means your locals arent too great either.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

I would seriously watch out for guard, space wolves, shooty marines, mechdar and dark eldar played by good players. Your list is designed to inflict a massive turn 2 charge, sweeping your opponent. Problem is it doesnt have much staying power. Charge 10 grey hunters with one wulfen, with 12 boyz. God knowd you arent killing any of them with shooting. They swing first and kill 7 boyz. You get 4 boyz going back, which means a mere 16 attacks, 8 hits, 4 wounds, oh noes 1 dead marine. Klaw kills 2 more. So you are at minus 4 to leadership and get ran off. Add in the firepower and you arent getting the maximum charges.

If you are winning as much as you say you are I fully recommend finding some big events and playing some very good players, it probably means your locals arent too great either.

Yes, because despite playing an army that relies on numerical superiority with cheap models, I regularly charge equal numbers of 6 point orks into equal numbers of 20 point(?) space marines. *rolls eyes*

And in case you missed the title...this is a GT list. I'm going to a GT, which is the biggest venue that I can think of to compete against 50-80 other players and see how good I am.

"But the trukks, all I need is to keep them from moving. If you dont have extra armor you are fethed, since any list with decent shooting can easily keep half your army from going anywhere in vehicles"

OH look, suddenly your army isnt hitting all at once


Automatically Appended Next Post:

But the trukks, all I need is to keep them from moving. If you dont have extra armor you are fethed, since any list with decent shooting can easily keep half your army from going anywhere in vehicles

OH look, suddenly your army isnt hitting all at once

My point was this, perhaps I didnt spell it out. Your army relies on hitting everything at once. But an army with good counter attack and shooting can make a mess of you, as it slows you down enough to prevent this from happening. You are then outmatched with your first wave, and your second can eat all kinds of shots.

Do you face many demolishers, manticores or vendetta's in your local IG armour metagame? I would approve of smaller snikrot squads, from the response I've read, I agree he should enable the haymaker punch of a charge whilst using the least amount of points to do so and as it stands, he could do it with less.

6 kommando's, 2 with burna's and snikrot should kill about 4 marines. Now this is great if your taking down a longfangs or small dev squad and its pretty good against a full tactical squad. Although I would of course suggest you use the burners as flamers on any squad where you can get 5-6+ models under the templates as you will kill more models and take less in return overall. Burnas are undeniably useful vs things like broadsides.

Razerous wrote:Do you face many demolishers, manticores or vendetta's in your local IG armour metagame? I would approve of smaller snikrot squads, from the response I've read, I agree he should enable the haymaker punch of a charge whilst using the least amount of points to do so and as it stands, he could do it with less.

6 kommando's, 2 with burna's and snikrot should kill about 4 marines. Now this is great if your taking down a longfangs or small dev squad and its pretty good against a full tactical squad. Although I would of course suggest you use the burners as flamers on any squad where you can get 5-6+ models under the templates as you will kill more models and take less in return overall. Burnas are undeniably useful vs things like broadsides.

Demolishers don't scare me simply because of their 24" range. With a 27-28" charge range, I try *very* hard to start out of range of a demolisher, and end in base contact. In fact, against a space marine list, you can bet that my deffkoptas are turbo-boosting up the the table and trying to end the demolisher(s) on turn1.

Manticores and Vendettas: Both of these are scary in their own right: Which has the cover ignoring shot? I rely heavily on the KFF to get me across the field, and there's a couple of nasty things that I really hate there. My local meta has a few IG players, only one of which is good. And he's very good. The others I trounce on (mechanized or not), but the other....I don't know the IG codex well enough, but there's a lot of death in our games.

Dashofpepper wrote:

LeperMessiah wrote:a clustered armor column is juicy pickings for a large blast to crack 2-3 rhinos/razorbacks in a single go.

Erm...how do you do that?

The killakanna is STR7, and when a blast lands...if it hits a vehicle that the hole isn't centered over, it does half damage (rounded down). That gives you a STR3 hit against anything that the hole didn't center over, or at best, a single STR7 hit.

I mistyped it, I meant that I get a crack at ANY of 2-3 rhinos or razorbacks since they are in a tight cluster to offset my crap BS2. I try to kill the center one of the convoy because occasionally it's deployed so that the unit inside can't disembark, either destroying them (if there's no spot within 2" of the hull) or at least force an emergency disembark so they sit idle for a turn, clustered for another killkannon shot.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Razerous wrote:Do you face many demolishers, manticores or vendetta's in your local IG armour metagame? I would approve of smaller snikrot squads, from the response I've read, I agree he should enable the haymaker punch of a charge whilst using the least amount of points to do so and as it stands, he could do it with less.

6 kommando's, 2 with burna's and snikrot should kill about 4 marines. Now this is great if your taking down a longfangs or small dev squad and its pretty good against a full tactical squad. Although I would of course suggest you use the burners as flamers on any squad where you can get 5-6+ models under the templates as you will kill more models and take less in return overall. Burnas are undeniably useful vs things like broadsides.

Demolishers don't scare me simply because of their 24" range. With a 27-28" charge range, I try *very* hard to start out of range of a demolisher, and end in base contact. In fact, against a space marine list, you can bet that my deffkoptas are turbo-boosting up the the table and trying to end the demolisher(s) on turn1.

Manticores and Vendettas: Both of these are scary in their own right: Which has the cover ignoring shot? I rely heavily on the KFF to get me across the field, and there's a couple of nasty things that I really hate there. My local meta has a few IG players, only one of which is good. And he's very good. The others I trounce on (mechanized or not), but the other....I don't know the IG codex well enough, but there's a lot of death in our games.

Manticores ignore cover, and get multiple shots. I'd watch out for them, there probably the wost thing for your army considering everything else I thought was a threat you have given strategy against.

You should learn the IG better, they're definately the worst matchup for you with all there cover ignoring ordenance weapons.

I've found ways to beat almost any army with Mech Orks, with the right strategy, but IG are the only army I can't get around.

Oh well, the game isn't perfectly balanced I guess.

Technically, only the deathstrike and colossus "ignore" cover. The manticore ignores intervening cover because it is indirect barrage, but area cover and KFFs should still work.

Not that D3 str 10 AP4 large blasts are much less effective with a 5+ KFF save...

Grimaldi wrote:Not that D3 str 10 AP4 large blasts are much less effective with a 5+ KFF save...

You know, I'm not even going to start.

Me neither. Some people just don't like the rules.

Snikkyd wrote:

I've found ways to beat almost any army with Mech Orks, with the right strategy, but IG are the only army I can't get around.

Oh well, the game isn't perfectly balanced I guess.

It's balanced if you use the tools provided. Either that or just concede certain match-ups and pray you don't pull them in a tournament.

You can't just ignore all the Ork fire-support in the codex and then get frustrated when you lose to IG. That's your fault and a result of poor/unbalanced list construction, at least for that and similar matchups (dark eldar mech spam, mechdar, shooty marines, shooty inquisition)

Is ork fire support a liability in some matchups? Sure. But against a typical GT metagame you're better off balancing your list with it. That might mean you don't curb-stomp some opponents with crappy lists on turn 2 or 3 anymore. But you'll have a good chance of beating everyone on turn 5.

That's one of the reason I dumped nob bikers. They are great until your opponent starts dropping str 8+ pies on your unit and then uses weaken resolve to make 700 points of them run off the table.

What would you prefer? A list that gives you a 40-70% chance to beat everyone in a tournament or a list that has an 85% chance to table bad lists/opponents in 3 turns and only a 25% chance to beat good one's?

So if I understand correctly, your saying to make balanced lists. That makes sense, and its not to hard to grasp, but from what I hear all competitive Ork lists are unbalanced.

Maybe someone should try to make a balanced list sometime. 45 Lootas and 150 boys will take down a lot of foes, mechanised or not.


Ah I see. Unbalanced lists smash people until there counter shows up, after all everything has a counter, but with balanced lists, theres no pefect counter. Yeah, splitting your forces might sound bad, but lootas will take alot of heat off the reat of your army.

Kevin Nash wrote:What would you prefer? A list that gives you a 40-70% chance to beat everyone in a tournament or a list that has an 85% chance to table bad lists/opponents in 3 turns and only a 25% chance to beat good one's?

Trick question! You've created a false dilemma. What if I were to want to play a list that wins 50 - 80% or 100% of the time? You've presented two options that don't technically have anything to do with the list winning with statistics that vary as much on player skill, dice rolls, and rule sets used in the playing environment as they do on the army selection.

And if there is one thing we all know, it's that anyone on Dakka Dakka will tell you that their win ration is in the 99% or higher range. After all, how else are you supposed to use the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy in every post if you don't claim that you have a nigh flawless winning record?

Carnuss wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:What would you prefer? A list that gives you a 40-70% chance to beat everyone in a tournament or a list that has an 85% chance to table bad lists/opponents in 3 turns and only a 25% chance to beat good one's?

Trick question! You've created a false dilemma. What if I were to want to play a list that wins 50 - 80% or 100% of the time? You've presented two options that don't technically have anything to do with the list winning with statistics that vary as much on player skill, dice rolls, and rule sets used in the playing environment as they do on the army selection.

And if there is one thing we all know, it's that anyone on Dakka Dakka will tell you that their win ration is in the 99% or higher range. After all, how else are you supposed to use the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy in every post if you don't claim that you have a nigh flawless winning record?

We can't really control who we play against, the missions we draw or how the dice are rolled. All we can prepare for is our own generalship, list construction, and to a lesser degree mission preparation (assuming we know ahead of time).

My goal is to make lists that perform overall over 50% against the field using standard missions from the book and assuming both generals play mistake free.

If I draw a bad matchup or the mission is some wacky brain-child of an over-zealous TO or my opponent strictly outplays me so be it.

Well....I'll say this.

I think that I'm a phenomenal 40k player. I have limited experience to base it on. I'm going to FOUR Grand Tournaments this year. I don't know if that's a lot or not for the average person, but I'm going to hit four of them. I *really* want to know if I'm as good as I think I am.

If I get monkey-stomped and have to eat humble pie - so be it. I'm planning on running mechanized orks. If they get monkey stomped repeatedly and I discover how flawed they are, and how I need to lose my army synergy and start using other units too....I'll consider it then. The entire idea behind mechanized orks was "less models, less dice, less time-consuming." It wasn't a power build or anything crazy, but I've fine-tuned the concept very well in the last year, and its now a popular ork build around dakka - I've spent 2,000 posts or trying to convince people why mechanized orks are awesome.

Honestly, I'd rather play Dark Eldar, but they're barely assembled and primed, and only a few vehicles are painted. The GT requirements were clear: Unpainted models are not allowed, you will not get to participate, no refunds.

All in all, this will be a learning experience. One of three things will happen.

1. I will win the GT, and come back proclaiming how awesome mechanized orks are (some more). And in the future, when people tell me that my mech orks only win because of big fish, small pond, sucky opponent syndrome, I will gleefully rub a GT win in their face.

2. I will not win the GT - I will have won all or most of my games, but a combination of painting and composition and other soft scores make me not take Best overall. This actually happened to me once; 24 point massacred three of three opponents, and a guy with 1 major win, 1 minor win, 1 draw won best overall. If this happens, I will come back proclaiming how awesome mechanized orks are (some more). And in the future, when people tell me that my mech orks only win because of big fish, small pond, sucky opponent syndrome, I will gleefully rub a GT game record in their face. Also, I will whine to start touching up stuff via the paint pots.

3. I will not win the GT - I will have gotten out-listed, out-generaled, and put into bad scenarios or matchups. I will come back proclaiming how awesome it was to meet some truly gifted players, and that I'm glad to have had the opportunity to play them - I'll write extensive battle reports, ask for advice on what I should have done differently, and start planning my next GT.

Dashofpepper wrote:3. I will not win the GT - I will have gotten out-listed, out-generaled, and put into bad scenarios or matchups. I will come back proclaiming how awesome it was to meet some truly gifted players, and that I'm glad to have had the opportunity to play them - I'll write extensive battle reports, ask for advice on what I should have done differently, and start planning my next GT.

Nobody knows who you are. Just claim you won the tournament, and go with option 1 or 2 instead. Losing is much easier to handle when you are in denial about it. If you lose badly, tell everyone you are Yakface, and nobody will be the wiser.

4 GTs? At least if you get smacked hard, you'll have no problems fixing your list.


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Carnuss wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:3. I will not win the GT - I will have gotten out-listed, out-generaled, and put into bad scenarios or matchups. I will come back proclaiming how awesome it was to meet some truly gifted players, and that I'm glad to have had the opportunity to play them - I'll write extensive battle reports, ask for advice on what I should have done differently, and start planning my next GT.

Nobody knows who you are. Just claim you won the tournament, and go with option 1 or 2 instead. Losing is much easier to handle when you are in denial about it. If you lose badly, tell everyone you are Yakface, and nobody will be the wiser.

? Your kidding. Why would he lie about that? It's pretty obvious he's willing to tell the truth.

Besides, tournament results for GTs will be posted on the internet. As long as they know where he went, they might just look it up.

Denying loss isn't going to make you any better, instead you have to see where you went wrong, if at all, and how you can make the most of it by coming out better from it, a learning experience if you will. And i'm pretty sure thats Dash's goal with these GTs, to see how he can make him and his lists better. He's not posting all this to tell how awesome he is or anything.....

Unless of course your joking.

Carnuss wrote: Nobody knows who you are. Just claim you won the tournament, and go with option 1 or 2 instead. Losing is much easier to handle when you are in denial about it. If you lose badly, tell everyone you are Yakface, and nobody will be the wiser.

LMAO! I tried to convince a friend who's going to Adepticon to put the "YTTH Wrecking Crew" or something to that effect on their team shirts and pretend to be Stelek(s). (Not making any judgements on YTTH... just saying that he's a polarizing figure and would probably provide epic lulz)

Gornall wrote:

Carnuss wrote: Nobody knows who you are. Just claim you won the tournament, and go with option 1 or 2 instead. Losing is much easier to handle when you are in denial about it. If you lose badly, tell everyone you are Yakface, and nobody will be the wiser.

LMAO! I tried to convince a friend who's going to Adepticon to put the "YTTH Wrecking Crew" or something to that effect on their team shirts and pretend to be Stelek(s). (Not making any judgements on YTTH... just saying that he's a polarizing figure and would probably provide epic lulz)

So people would laugh at him for being from YTTH?

What's YTTH?

YTTH (www.yesthetruthhurts.com) is a blog run by a former Dakkaite (before my time) named Stelek who got banned from here. Depending on who you ask, he's either an idiot or a 40k master. I'll leave it at that in order to prevent this thread from crashing into the abyss. The idea was that because he's such a polarizing and fairly well-known (online) 40k figure, someone could have fun impersonating him at Adepticon.

Gornall wrote:YTTH (www.yesthetruthhurts.com) is a blog run by a former Dakkaite (before my time) named Stelek who got banned from here. Depending on who you ask, he's either an idiot or a 40k master. I'll leave it at that in order to prevent this thread from crashing into the abyss. The idea was that because he's such a polarizing and fairly well-known (online) 40k figure, someone could have fun impersonating him at Adepticon.

In a way, he's both.

Yes, along with my pink bathrobe to wear alongside while stomping heads with my pink eldar in the gladiator.

Alas, adepticon is too expensive.