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Daemonettes: [This leaves 86 alive @ 4 attacks each = 344 attacks = 172 hits = 28.7 Rends = 9.6 wounds.]

Doesnt it have ws9 and defensive grenades?

Thus, 86 alive=86 hits, 14 rends, 5 wounds with 3++?

86 daemonettes either not charging or charging dedfensive rgenades and WS9 = 172 attacks, 57.3333.... hits, 9.6ish wounds.
Now if it didn't have defensive grenades then you'd be getting around 14/15 rends so he'd be down.
PS. I might actually take out a daemonette for 3 transfixing gazes (-3 attacks overall meaning the hirophant would only down 1.851...... daemonettes meaning it would in the end do better in terms of attrition)

Transfixing Gaze won't help you against a gargantuan creature since they can choose to make a stomp attack instead of their normal swings (1 attack at every model in base contact).

It's pretty safe to assume that if you can come up with a way to kill a Hierophant outside of brute force, he's got a special rule that disallows it.

What do you say about my previous post? Any opinions?


Well, shouldn't you be able to use a huge amount of meotic spores and ds them around the thing and then pop a mawloc right under it? Dosen't Terror from below state that the unit suviving the mawloc attack must be moved away from the blast, but if it cannot becouse of impassible terrain, it is destroyed? Ofc if i haven't got the rules wrong this would require large amount of luck with scatter and reserve rolls but if you use lictors and hive commander tyrants it could work! If it does your hole army are deployed and their biggest bug is dead!

Ofc I might be wrong

EDIT: for accidently copying my avatar into the message

The problem with demonettes is that you will be fielding a whole bunch of T3 5++ bodies that are just asking to get eaten by the remainder of the Hierophants army, or just be shot at by the Hierophant itself!.

Raw numbers may well work but actually pulling it off would be extremely difficult.

Its a gamble to be sure, but I think its the best option I've seen so far simply because Rending. Don't be too afraid of its shooting, it will only knock off 4-5 prior.

the_red_error wrote:
Well, shouldn't you be able to use a huge amount of meotic spores and ds them around the thing and then pop a mawloc right under it? Dosen't Terror from below state that the unit suviving the mawloc attack must be moved away from the blast, but if it cannot becouse of impassible terrain, it is destroyed? Ofc if i haven't got the rules wrong this would require large amount of luck with scatter and reserve rolls but if you use lictors and hive commander tyrants it could work! If it does your hole army are deployed and their biggest bug is dead!

3-4 spores are normally enough (depends on the base of the Hierophant; 4 for square, 3 for round)
I thought of the same idea; an all strike DS nids should do the trick.
Just have to be carefull with DH inquisitors for other matchups.

Budzerker wrote:
From the Gargantuan Creature Rules: "All gargantuan creatures are immune to the Instant Death rule. [new sentence:] In addition, because they are so large and powerful, they are not affected by ANY attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like a Force Weapon, an attack that kills as a result of failed characterisitc test, etc.)."

Maybe its been said before, but doesn't Jaws just remove the model outright and not actually kill it automatically?

G Creatures are immune to any psychic powers without a strength value.

the_red_error wrote:What do you say about my previous post? Any opinions?


Well, shouldn't you be able to use a huge amount of meotic spores and ds them around the thing and then pop a mawloc right under it? Dosen't Terror from below state that the unit suviving the mawloc attack must be moved away from the blast, but if it cannot becouse of impassible terrain, it is destroyed? Ofc if i haven't got the rules wrong this would require large amount of luck with scatter and reserve rolls but if you use lictors and hive commander tyrants it could work! If it does your hole army are deployed and their biggest bug is dead!

Ofc I might be wrong

EDIT: for accidently copying my avatar into the message

I answered this on the last page...either you have a 1-Dimensional way of killing a Hierophant or you do it D3 wounds and the game breaks when it can't move.

Blackmoor wrote:Since the Gladiator is a 4 game tournament, my question is how would 20 demonettes do against the rest of the field?

As far as the Gigantic Slaanesh Demonette goes, I think she can use warp time because it affects her, and not the Hierophant, but I would think that she can just be shot down by the 16, strength-10 shooting attacks.

As someone said above, the Gladiator usually has one mission that is nicknamed "screw the big ones" where if you take a giant point-sink model it get neutralized by the mission, although last years mission was rather tame. Last years "screw the big ones" mission I think had one model with a vortex grenade, the year before it they had a mission where you can put one of your opponents models into reserve and it comes on board turn #4. But if you are facing one, I would not count on the missions saving you.

I actually faced a Hierophant in last year's "Screw the big ones" mission. The Vortex grenade killed it; my toss landed on target, and then it only scattered 3" at the start of his turn.

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Of course there are attacks that bypass S versus T and you'll need a lot to soak the Titan.

I wonder, what's its leadership?

Granted I have never played apocalypse but the problem I see with Daemonettes is they are guaranteed to be on the board at least 1 turn before they get to assault assuring that they as the most threatening unit to the Hierophant get shot to pieces or engaged by gaunts to tie them up for turns. You’ll need 30-50% MORE daemonettes than you budget to do the job.

I think fire dragon spam is the best I’ve read. My math says 40 fire dragons (not sure how people have gotten 40 of them but I’ll run with it) put on about 8 wounds for approx 1000 pts. If an eldar army can’t find 2 more wounds in 1250 pts they are doing something wrong. Plus they would have a lot of mobility to avoid it or make it really difficult for the Heirophant to hit in cc.

2 fortuned seer councils on bikes
Dark Eldar (Mass lances and multicharge wyche squads with agonizers)
Tau w/9 broadsides (Assuming no 3+ invuln)
666 slaaneshi uberdemon with fateweaver backup

Better option: Kill the other 1000 points with your 2250 and run away from it. Fly a landspeeder or drive a rhino 1" in front of it to keep it from moving forward. It can tankshock...can't ram. just get in its way and kill everything else. Add in a "screw the big ones" mission, or even a forced reserves mission, and the Hierophant doesn't guarentee wins.

It seems like the only things that killed it last year were Reavers (out), mission (cross your fingers), and some D-weapons (Eldar Cobra?).

- Blackbone

Blackbone wrote:It seems like the only things that killed it last year were Reavers (out), mission (cross your fingers), and some D-weapons (Eldar Cobra?).

- Blackbone

Not the Cobra. I had one of those, too, and hid from the thing. The Cobra wants no part of 16 S10 shots, and D-weapons only do 1 wound (assuming you get through the invulnerable). A Scorpion would at least get a couple wounds through, but would be beaten up long before the Hierophant died, even if you managed cover + titan holofield stacking.

The Cobra's 10" D-weapon would be fun against the new 'nids otherwise, though - no more Eternal Warrior means picking up TMCs by the handful.

The easy answer is of course...

...another Hierophant.

Can you block the thing in with vehicles? It seems like it would be able to blast anything out of it's way, then assault it out of it's way, and if that fails it can still shoot you.

Edit: also, weaken resolve it down to LD4, dump a neural shreader onto it, fry it's brain for D3 wounds.

starbomber109 wrote:Edit: also, weaken resolve it down to LD4, dump a neural shreader onto it, fry it's brain for D3 wounds.

For everyone still wondering:

GARGANTUAN CREATURES ARE IMMUNE TO PSYCHIC POWERS WITHOUT A STRENGTH VALUE!

Introducing the Hierophant!

It's immune to special rules, is armed with 16 railguns, has a 2+/3+, T9 and more (regenerating) wounds than god. Good luck.

grankobot wrote:Introducing the Hierophant!

It's immune to special rules, is armed with 16 railguns, has a 2+/3+, T9 and more (regenerating) wounds than god. Good luck.

You forgot the fact that it can stand on you if you get to close, and you'll suffocate too.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:
GARGANTUAN CREATURES ARE IMMUNE TO PSYCHIC POWERS WITHOUT A STRENGTH VALUE!

So would Gift of Chaos work?

+UPDATE+

According to the latest INAT FAQ (and all new INAT Apoc FAQ thingy), the Hierophant has no invul save.

So shoot it with lascannons. It will die. And rejoice, my children

+/UPDATE+

Seems kind of backwards, since they've ruled that the DoM gets zoanthrope specific powers despite it not specifically being a zoanthrope either.

But that's the yakfaq for you

Lascannons FTW baby!!!

G

You know Lukas the trickster can 1 shot it assuming you can get in base and win the roll off.

grankobot wrote:Seems kind of backwards, since they've ruled that the DoM gets zoanthrope specific powers despite it not specifically being a zoanthrope either.

But that's the yakfaq for you

The DoM 'issue' with Warp Field is the kind of thing that is constantly done in the new style codices. Unit-specific wargear are written with that unit in mind and then GW also writes its special characters using these same pieces of wargear assuming that players can understand that if the codex tells you to reference the rule on another page for the character you'll be able to figure out to swap the references for the parent unit out in the rule and replace it with the name of the special character who has it. They've done it in many codexes and they probably won't stop.

Is it technically accurate? Of course not, but its also the thing that very, very few players would even try do dare bringing up at an actual game for fear of being laughed out of the store. GW doesn't even bother to FAQ these types of questions because they think they're ridiculous...but I think we can rest assured that if they ever did they'd rule the same way we have.


Now, when it comes to the Hierophant...let's be perfectly honest...the ruling here was more about potential tournament-breaking ability rather than any rules as written. I mean, true, the Hierophant only has the Warp Field 'pyschic power' (which no longer exists...it is now just a special rule), so there is some bearing for that ruling within the rules text, but also giving the Hierophant a 3+ invulnerable save for no points increase is simply nuts.

The INAT FAQ is primarily focused on being a tournament FAQ and as such there is occasionally a real need to address strange situations that occur which can seriously imbalance the tournament...having expensive models gaining new rules for no new points cost because of the time it takes for Forgeworld to update their rules is a perfect example.


So yeah, pure, pure RAW the DoM has access to a Warp Field with confusing rules and the Hierophant has access to the Warp Field psychic power which no longer exists...but in the real world everyone already knows the DoM can use the Warp Field power and that Forgeworld will eventually update the Hierophant datasheet and we just need some rules to get us by in the meantime that won't be absolutely mind-boggling, unbelievably powerful.

Very well said Jon.

G

The rules for what can not outright kill it are terribly confusing in their wording, so I'm not sure, but...

Lukas the Trickster's "The Last Laugh" ability looks like it should work? It's no psychic power, it's no characteristic roll and it's no ID.

Yea, Lukas would work, but its gimmicky, easy to avoid, and only has a 58% chance of success if you actually get to the part where lukas is threatening the biggun'.

In one apocalypse game the space wolf side had 3 copies of lukas, all 3 failed to get their ability off; Scabeithrax, Angroth, and Gazzghkull laughed last indeed.