Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So what do you do when the Thunderfire Cannon needs to enter from reserves?

There's not much you can do but:

1. Bite the bullet and move on.
2. Bought a drop pod for it so it can drop into position (the original intention should be to get it to affect the drop pod assault and not normally deploy the TFC that way).

Otherwise, that's why some players don't like the TFC/Havocs/Fully equipped Preds...they are static.

It may not be a huge issue most of the time, but those that don't like it are prob. risk averse.

The thing about Predators and Devastators, however, is that they can enter the board 6" to fire, or 12" to dismount and enter a firing position (2" dismount, 1D6" run). Being held in reserves isn't a huge problem. All you can do is mount the Thunderfire in a Drop Pod, and that kicks up its cost in a small game like this.

Something I'd suggest is that instead of Predators the player takes three Whirlwinds. They can ignore cover like the Thunderfire, but they're also barrage weapons so they can hammer stuff out of site, and given that they're firing Ordnance then they can occasionall inconvenience AV10-AV11 stuff. Equip the rest of the force for encountering heavy armour and assault troops (Meltas and Flamers). Or take three Vindicators...

Whirlwinds are, sadly, epically bad. They are lower strength than the TFCs. I LOVE the model and so desperately wanted to get them to work but, unless you are up against low toughness foot hordes (foot eldar, termagant spam, IG horde) it just breaks your heart over and over.

They are lower strength, but if you might face having it in reserves and don't have the points to stick in both a Thunderfire Cannon and a Drop Pod, then rolling onto the board and laying down a large blast marker might make up for that turn you would otherwise spend getting into position. Whirlwinds are what, 75pts? That saves 25pts on the Thunderfire Cannon even without the Drop Pod. Those points can go towards more Dreadnoughts, or Razorbacks or something.

@Nurglitch:
What I meant:

"With respect to firing full effect"...blah blah my post.

Sorry for not being specific .

@Somnicide:
WW make up for it with better AP and Move and Fire. Then there's the barrage aspect.

I just don't know when you would ever reserve it - you would just walk it on for turn 1.

Plus if he is in a fortified ruin then both he and the gun get a 3+ cover save.

YMMV, but I tried desperately to make the WW work and it just never did.

+1 for thunderfire awesomeness, but 2 in 750 may be overkill, some more anti-tank may be better way to spend pts

oni wrote:
@Sourclams, your list, while ubber killy, doesn't leave much in the way of capturing objectives. It seems as though you've gone the route of objective denial rather than capturing. I feel as though a decent player would see this weak point in an objective based mission and my squads/razorbacks would be the first things to die. Once gone I could only hope to tie. A very strong list never the less, thank you.

The only way to get significantly more objective-taking into a 750 point marine list is if you dilute your offensive abilities by loading down your list with either Tacticals or Scouts. In that case, it comes down to a choice between one single objective taking unit, or an entire Dakka Pred. I'm going to take the Dakka Pred every time.

And two objective-takers isn't bad for 750. The goal should be to more or less table your opponent. Objectives become incidental at that point.

Well if you only count infantry then you are bringing none.

Your comment was specifically regarding the option to swap heavies in a Tac squad. That's exactly two weapons in your entire list.

No, when you spam something it become cheesy. If you run three Preds, you will get docked for comp in any tournament because it is cheesy. To put it simply Spam=Cheese.

Subjective arguments are purely subjective. I can counter this by saying 'only crap tournaments have comp'. In short, this is entirely unrelated to the topic at hand, which is producing a competitive 750 marine list.

*Sigh* Did you read my comments at all? You can CHANGE your heavy weapon if you need too. I generally bring MMs, but alot of people don't care for them. You only have 10 marines with no heavy weapons or special weapons at all. Any competent player is going to pop your transports first, which they can and will with Krak Missiles, and then your two little squads are going to be footslogging it, and trying to hold objectives.

How exactly is this "competent player" going to focus fire my transports while ignoring the three Predators and Dreadnought? We're talking 750 points. If I'm playing against another Marine list, say, yours, you have exactly one, ONE, krak missile to "focus fire" my 5 tanks and AV12 walker. How do you expect to bust open two Razorbacks, kill all the Marines, and not be tabled by the massive return fire you're going to be eating?

Added to this I can park my rhinos behind my Predators in 2/3 of missions and claim 3+ cover saves. Now your one, ONE, krak missile can either bounce off of AV13 or try for high deflection on AV11 side armor.

In small points games it is always better to have more troops to ensure objectives. And since 2/3 of missions played are objectives based, that is an advantage. And if they really want to they can take off the extra armor on the rhinos and give both squads meltas, which would make it even better. With TFCs you will out range and outgun almost any army, and you can give yourself a 3+ cover save.

It's in small point games especially where you need to use your troop choices sparingly because they're generally good at very little beyond holding objectives. Orks can take nothing but troops. Dark Eldar can take nothing but troops. Space Marines have to take more points-efficient non-troop options because Tactical Marines and scouts will not put out nearly enough killing power to kick their opponent off of his objectives while holding their own.

Your list is fine don't get me wrong, but most people would consider it very, very cheesy.

If you can show me objective judgment criterion for army comp that is balanced across all codices, I'll pay more attention to cries of Cheese, but for now, it isn't even relevant to this discussion.

Pyriel- wrote:I usually dont take advice seriously from a guy who things las preds are a very good choice vs nids.

As opposed to what?

I don't tailor lists to play specific armies. I build all-comers.

They work. Maybe not as well as some other units vs nids specifically, but they are a solid choice for marines vs anyone.

I don't tailor lists to play specific armies. I build all-comers.

Cool, me to!

Everyone tailors...those who say they don't just don't know it.

I tailor to all-comers as well