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I read something to this effect somewhere and agree with it totally: Sportsmanship is something you ARE, not a checklist of things you CAN BE. Sportsmanship scores are fatally flawed because it's attempting to objectively measure something that's wholly subjective. There are so many things that equate to a good "sportsman," as it presumably intends to be as a representation of a "good game" that it is impossible to fairly translate it to a numbered scale. Sportsmanship should be an expectation, like dice and models, and there should only be penalties for douchebaggery, but who's gonna enforce those rules? Fellow players? Judges? God himself? It's an impossible task.

Black Blow Fly wrote:I think it's time to lock this thread and let it cool down... then we can all reset.

: )

G

Ha, I like to think that we kept it pretty civil.

Hrm...yeah, this thread has been a lot less heated and obnoxious that a lot of other threads on this topic have been.

So when you said Europe in general, you meant one specific event in one specific country? How about you just admit the error and concede that particular point, as you were basing it on a substantially inaccurate generalization?

I meant the most prominant and perhaps best attended tournament in Europe, yes. I never said the entire continent exclusively runs major regional events without soft scores, just that Europe does indeed have them (the US does not) and they are very successful. Stop quibbling over bs.

No joke. While there is, as I’ve already repeatedly stated, a subjective element to some of the questions, I am quite convinced that breaking down and talking about specific sportsmanlike behaviors is much better and produces more consistent and accurate results than scoring 1-10, which is honestly a mess.

It's not just SOME of the questions that are subjective--it's ALL of them. Those checklists are a mess. A chipmunk can abuse every single one of those boxes and justify the decision with a myriad of technically valid reasons. And I still don't understand why you're convinced that they're effective despite not having anything other than some personal anecdotes to support it, but I guess that is what is central to our disagreement. I'd rather not take chances on making the system worse without something concrete to justify the decision.

Here’s the first time I described it on the new tournament forum here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/280263.page#1361029

I fail to see how this system is any different than a scale or checklist. It allows people to dock opponents points for literally any reason they can come up with. That's utterly ridiculous in a competitive event for the same reasons that we've been repeating. Apparently they bear repeating some more because if this is your proposed solution than you clearly don't understand the problem.

That being said, I think the part where players who receive a very low score become ineligible for prizes and face being barred from future events has merit. However, I foresee this being of limited usefulness because the meekness of this community as a whole lends itself to inflating sportsmanship scores for even the biggest douches.

Danny Internets wrote:

Countless is like MAYBE 5 guys on both sides of the subject B*tching back and forth about it. The anti Sports guys are so sure they are right. The sports guys are just as confident. One side spouts their propaganda of drivel about how they are right and the other side is "TOTALLY UNABLE TO HAVE A POINT"...then the other side spouts back THEIR propaganda - and this helps the hobby. RIGHT!

Aldonis, it generally helps to read posts before commenting on them. Especially if you're going to quote them.

There are only 5 guys arguing against sportsmanship in the entire community and on the entire internet over the past decade?

Get real.

And you wonder why we tell people like you that they are "totally unable to have a point"...

Read...what me! No way...YOU read.....reading this makes my head hurt.....

People like me? I disagree with you and I'm one of the People? Sorry I hurt your feelings.....

But just for curiosity...since you seem to have this down....what is the exact number of people arguing this point on the internet?

Hilarious...

but dang it...got drawn into some meaningless internet debate on Dakka....over tournaments with those with little experience and exposure....

sigh....

One of these days I'll learn not to try to put wings on pigs....all it does is make the pig made.....sorry......

Aldonis, I left my decoder ring at home. Would you mind translating that into something humans can understand?

Modquisition on.

Here's the part where I close the thread before I ban like everyone who posted on this thread for vioating Dakka Rule #1, except for anyone that coughs up chocolate cake.

You know guys you really can agree to disagree here, put forth a reasoned argument and understand the other side also can have a reasoned argument.

Anyway, closing before the shotgun comes out.