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agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
The releases are only IG and Eldar ones. They're releasing new tanks--of which pretty much every other army already has theirs filled out.

The Ork Deff Dreds and Killa Kans were also part of the Spearhead releases, as was the Basilisk.

However, the rules themselves that are coming out in White Dwarf will incorporate all armies.

And just to be nitpicky:
Apocalypse didn't have "command sprues for the different armies".

Everything is on the sprue they're rereleasing now.

And I'm telling you that I want a new toy.

If it wasn't apoc; where'd the command sprues come from? Ya know, this thing: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1130001&prodId=prod770023a that says "Apocalypse" in the description.

I'm not interested in fielding 10 hammerheads. I want more variety; why do IG, Orks and Eldar get the love?

You misunderstood the comment.
I said that there wasn't a "command sprue for the different armies", it was all on a single sprue that was released in every Apocalypse formation box.

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

BrassScorpion wrote:I quite like all the new plastic tank kits and the Eldar support platform too. I may use a plastic stand-in for Pask though and save about $10 on that one.

Check out the What's New Today about Spearhead with design notes and sketches from Jes Goodwin. Always cool to see a bit of Goodwin's sketches and design process.

And cue a new scenery kit rumour.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120824a_2010-05-11_1_873x627.jpg

How did I miss that!

I guess it'll be a shield generator kit?

Kanluwen wrote:

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

This the point of my whinging.

I would love a new tank for my tau, I would probably run right out and buy 2 of them. Of course without the expansion being official, I'd never be able to use them outside of some special scenario.

nevermind.

*sigh*

Kanluwen wrote:How did I miss that!

I guess it'll be a shield generator kit?

No, silly, it's an... Imperial Skull Wall!

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

This the point of my whinging.

I would love a new tank for my tau, I would probably run right out and buy 2 of them. Of course without the expansion being official, I'd never be able to use them outside of some special scenario.

nevermind.

*sigh*

Uh, who said anything about the expansion not being official?

They're making it available free online--in addition to printing it in WD. That's as easily accessible as I can imagine.

God, I pity the poor painter that had to paint 3 vindicators in a row.

I'm not too sure what GW hopes to achieve with this expansion. Since tanks are so expensive, few people have loads and loads of them. If spearhead truly affects only vehicles or allows vehicle-only battles and that's it. I can see it being a waste of time.

I mean, great in the Heavy-metal studio where you've got buckets of tanks at no cost. But in real-life, where most gamers have 1 or 2 2500 point armies containing anything from 1-6 tanks at most; nah.

The cost (of the Eldar Support Platform) is currently the same as you pay for the metal so I might get some,

Actually, the Eldar Heavy Support Platforms are $33 US, so the new plastic one is lower in price.

Since tanks are so expensive, few people have loads and loads of them

Anyone who's ever attended an open mass tank battle event in a GW store knows that there are plenty of players and collectors out there with large numbers of vehicles. It's not for everyone, but there are plenty of "treadheads" out there. The models are expensive, but many of the GW bundle deals have vehicles in them, allowing collectors to acquire vehicles in quantity over time without paying list price. Then there are deals and trades with friends, flea markets, eBay and those wonderful Apocalypse Bundle Deals GW had a couple years ago. Those factors combined caused my own vehicle collection to grow considerably in the past few years.

I pity the poor painter that had to paint 3 vindicators in a row.

I've done it twice already for two different armies and am planning a third. I know other people who've painted Linebreaker Squadrons as well. It's rather fun.

And to those of you repeatedly trying to explain that Spearhead is an expansion rules set that is good for ALL 40K armies, not just the ones getting these few new models, good luck because it seems to be a losing battle.

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

This the point of my whinging.

I would love a new tank for my tau, I would probably run right out and buy 2 of them. Of course without the expansion being official, I'd never be able to use them outside of some special scenario.

nevermind.

*sigh*

Uh, who said anything about the expansion not being official?

They're making it available free online--in addition to printing it in WD. That's as easily accessible as I can imagine.

It's like playing with FW stuff; you have to have a big long conversation with your opponent and convince as to why they should play you with that particular model (rule). mendokusai-ne? (tedious).

I know this expansion will just have some scenarios or something for vehicle only battles but Tau only have 2 vehicles (other than the devilfish which I don't imagine would be all that useful in a tank battle) what's the point? OK, it's 3 if you count Skyrays but all those seeker missiles are worthless if you only get the 'ray's markerlight to fire them with.

1-6 tanks at most in a 2500 army? Are you still playing 4th ed? My 1500pts guard army has more than that.

If the scenery picture is related to spearhead, it seems like infantry will play a role, maybe they just need to be mounted

agnosto wrote:
It's like playing with FW stuff; you have to have a big long conversation with your opponent and convince as to why they should play you with that particular model (rule). mendokusai-ne? (tedious).

So you've seen the rules for the Expansion and/or the new Eldar Tank? Unless there's some arbitrary rule stating that it requires opponent's consent, then I'll bet you don't need it to field the new vehicle.

I think the Manticore is really awesome looking. Deathstrike is ok, doesn't blow me away. The rest seems fine. Not sure what's so horrible about the weapon platform?

Platuan4th wrote:

agnosto wrote:
It's like playing with FW stuff; you have to have a big long conversation with your opponent and convince as to why they should play you with that particular model (rule). mendokusai-ne? (tedious).

So you've seen the rules for the Expansion and/or the new Eldar Tank? Unless there's some arbitrary rule stating that it requires opponent's consent, then you don't need it.

Not in the least. I'm actually assuming that most, if not all, of the tanks being released are already existing in one form or another. I just don't see the expansion as a reason for me to run out and buy more of something I already own for my Tau.

As someone already mentioned, it's more for "treadheads" that love massive tank fights whereas I like to play 2-3k point battles and that's 98% of the gaming that happens in my area (except for the occasional apoc game).

I don't need to own more hammerheads because I can only ever field 3 in a regular game (which I never do because I love my broadsides) and they're kind of boring to paint.

I readily admit that I'm a fickle consumer. They need to entice me with a new toy if they want me to spend my money because I already own enough of my old toys.

BrassScorpion wrote:

The cost (of the Eldar Support Platform) is currently the same as you pay for the metal so I might get some,

Actually, the Eldar Heavy Support Platforms are $33 US, so the new plastic one is lower in price.

Since tanks are so expensive, few people have loads and loads of them

Anyone who's ever attended an open mass tank battle event in a GW stores knows that there are plenty of players and collectors out there with large numbers of vehicles. It's not for everyone, but there are plenty of "treadheads" out there.

To those of you repeatedly trying to explain that Spearhead is an expansion rules set that is good for ALL 40K armies, not just the ones getting these few new models, good luck because it seems to be a losing battle.

It really does seem that trying to explain it is difficult.

Okay, here's how I'm reading into it:

Bolding for emphasis.
Spearhead is not just focused upon massive tank v. tank battles. Spearhead is being touted as a way to play scenarios like the Ardennes Forest and Hurtgen during WWII. Where massive tank forces engaged static infantry positions, and infantry hunted tanks with man portable weaponry amongst the trees. Will we see things akin to Kursk, with huge masses of tanks engaging tanks and infantry cowering on the field taking potshots at each other? I'd be surprised if we didn't, but still. This isn't just going to be huge swathes of tanks duking it out.

It's also worth noting that "armored vehicles" does not necessarily exclusively mean tanks. We could see Sentinels stalking Ork looted tanks in the midst of bombed out Imperial cities, or Killa Kans/Deff Dreds doing the same.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But I really doubt it's just going to be tanks v. tanks when "spearheads" imply that it's going to be breakout/breakthrough styled scenarios, where there's a fixed point you're trying to get through.

Don't they already have scenarios like that in the new missions book?

Possibly. I don't know, since I haven't looked through Battle Missions in detail.

Still, I see no problem with having similar available for free online, do you?

Not so much, Battlemissions does not "break" the normal Force Org. Chart restrictions on vehicles to the degree that will be the case with Spearhead.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info!

I still don't want to buy any more boring, old hammerheads though.

So use Skyrays

Skyrays without pathfinder support are worthless; not enough markerlights to fire their missiles. Come to think of it, they're pretty worthless with pathfinders anyway.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120824a_2010-05-11_1_873x627.jpg

Well,they really get out of their way to keep people from filing off those damn skulls....

Kanluwen wrote:I just dislike the Manticore. The rockets riding on a rack is dumb to me.

Guess someone forgot to tell these guys...







Frankly, it's the TURRET design that dumb. Of course we are dealing with a make believe universe of genetically altered supermen and sentient space fungus, so I don't judge.

Illumini wrote:1-6 tanks at most in a 2500 army? Are you still playing 4th ed? My 1500pts guard army has more than that.

If the scenery picture is related to spearhead, it seems like infantry will play a role, maybe they just need to be mounted

Obviously an army who's entire specialism is vehicles is a special case when I'm taking 'an average'.

It's hard to define an average gamer, because I think the thing about Warhammer in general is that you don't just stagnate as a player, you'll always want to buy more stuff. Therefore the size of your armies increases relative to the years you've been in the game. But I'd guess that most people start to get bored of an army at around 2500-4000 points and if you're playing an army like Space Marines or Eldar a large amount of your points is made from elite infantry, not tanks. I've got 4000 points of CSM with 1 LR, 1 Pred, 3 Rhinos and a Vindi; also a Stormlord for apoc. I'd say my collection is quite large, at 3 ~3000pt armies.

However, if there are missions as described below I think we will get some interesting battles out of Spearhead. I mean, look at Nids, somewhere in these rules there must be a hole for non-tank armies, hopefully those missions will be good fun.

I always thought death strike missiles are like these:

Granted they dont need to be THAT big , but atm its really tiny ( in the missile to tank ratio ). And we all know in toy soldiers, tiny weapons are bad xD

The Green Git wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I just dislike the Manticore. The rockets riding on a rack is dumb to me.

Guess someone forgot to tell these guys...







Frankly, it's the TURRET design that dumb. Of course we are dealing with a make believe universe of genetically altered supermen and sentient space fungus, so I don't judge.

Of those 3, the Gopher is fine to me. The rockets aren't sitting there exposed like they are on the SA-6 or the Hawk launcher.

Now I need to figure out how to magnetize one tank to be able to use both launchers...

Kanluwen wrote:

The Green Git wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I just dislike the Manticore. The rockets riding on a rack is dumb to me.

Guess someone forgot to tell these guys...

Frankly, it's the TURRET design that dumb. Of course we are dealing with a make believe universe of genetically altered supermen and sentient space fungus, so I don't judge.

Of those 3, the Gopher is fine to me. The rockets aren't sitting there exposed like they are on the SA-6 or the Hawk launcher.

They're just as exposed on the FW version though.

Personally I think the turret makes less sense, tanks can pivot on the spot, why does it also need to be able to rotate it's long range rockets.

Really like the manticore, but 'meh' on the deathstrike design, the Fire Prism has grown on me quite a bit, and the LRBT looks as good as it ever did.

Howver, that Pask model is awful. What's up with his left hand? Did it get deformed in the mould?

Gargskull wrote:

Personally I think the turret makes less sense, tanks can pivot on the spot, why does it also need to be able to rotate it's long range rockets.

The gopher's a surface to air weapon system so it needs to be able to "track" its target.

agnosto wrote:

Gargskull wrote:

Personally I think the turret makes less sense, tanks can pivot on the spot, why does it also need to be able to rotate it's long range rockets.

The gopher's a surface to air weapon system so it needs to be able to "track" its target.

Fair enough but the manticore's rockets look a bit too fat for that.