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Golden Eyed Scout wrote:That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.

Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.

Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine in the begining


And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.

So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.

that is ONE NIGHT

They had maybe 3 hours before the zombie's attention was sparked. And all it took was a sound from a pinball machine. it could also be a light, a sneeze, etc. then they were screwed. (one of my fav movies, btw)

yeah, and when the infected FOUND them, they got wafflepwned. hard.


once again...I'll be in my costco...you're a cool dude, I'll let you in...

IG_urban wrote:

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.

Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.

Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine in the begining


And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.

So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.

that is ONE NIGHT

They had maybe 3 hours before the zombie's attention was sparked. And all it took was a sound from a pinball machine. it could also be a light, a sneeze, etc. then they were screwed. (one of my fav movies, btw)

yeah, and when the infected FOUND them, they got wafflepwned. hard.


once again...I'll be in my costco...you're a cool dude, I'll let you in...

The survivors in 28 Weeks Later lasted several weeks, at least that's what I inferred. And beisdes, aren't you basically doing the same thing with your Costco, only differenc ebeing you have
forklifts and I have buses?

My house is multi storied, and with the stairs destroyed, the zombies can be funneled into one area for killing, or to allow myself/family to escape in another route.

And thanks for letting me. I jsut need ot find my shoppers club card.

@ IG

I understand what your getting at,and you do make some good points.
I still,however belive that the undead would have a very difficult time going over fortress/castle walls.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done,after all zombies have no other distractions,so of course being single minded and tenacious,they may find a way over.
Incidently,you must have been in some pretty fething insane mosh pits for people to reach 30+ feet in the air,I've been going to shows and in mosh pits since 1985 and I've never seen anyone do that...of course,I am an "old" man now and may be a bit unfamilar with new fangled moshing techniques...pfft,you youngsters and your nutty new trends.

IG_urban wrote:

Mistress of minis wrote:AA-12's arent even in production yet, where do you plan on finding them? And empty they weigh 11 lbs, almost 15 when loaded with a drum. Undisciplined fire control means you and your buddies will be out of ammo on day one or two, because shot gun ammo is heavy you cant carry/haul much with you.

For me, I'd take over one of the nearby super max prisons. Use the non infected inmates to clear out the infected in exchange for freedom. Larger prisons have generators, medical facilities, very solid security measures, armories with a moderate amount of ammunition, tools/workshops- and a water source. People forget most municipal water supplies are gonna end once the lights go out.

ummm....yes they are, they have been around since the 70s in different forms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchisson_Assault_Shotgun
If not that, then there is the USAS 12. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo_USAS-12

Prison would be waaay to risky. You think that all of those serial rapist cannabals in a SUPER MAX prison would just vacate and let you take over? ummm...no.

AA-12's have been in development since the 70's(hence prototypes), only recently have they made any progress with modern metallurgy and techniques for forging them in stainless steel. They are not available for sale to the public, and are built to order(hence- custom rather than production)- as they require a Class 3 license. Same with a USAS 12. Might as well wish for a mini gun while you're at it Try going for a Saiga 12 if you want a realistic/obtainable mag fed shot gun. The ammo is still really heavy.


And, you obviously have no grasp of how a supermax prison is set up and operated. Set aside silly movie and TV notions. A supermax prison has thier inmates in a cell almost 24 hours a day. 3 showers and 3 rec periods(in a slightly larger cell) per week are the only times they get to come out. That means you could pop them one at a time. Even if they did break down thier cell door- theres multiple layers of security and picking off anyone attacking the doors is how the places are set up. Using the strengths of the facility you turn 800 guys, into a simple problem that can be dealt with 1 guy at a time. So, they may not 'let me' take over- but they wouldnt have a choice in the matter. Having worked in both of Arizonas supermax prisons, and an older prison retrofitted to hosue supermax inmates- I know the strengths and weaknesses of the systems in place and how to use them.

Besides tha AA-12,while an impressive weapon,wouldn't be very practical for "zombie control".
As Mistress of Minis already pointed out,12 gauge ammo ,in abundence, would be extreamly heavy,also,the full auto function (as with any full auto)would simply be a waste of ammo.
While firing an AA-12 into a crowd of the living would be devestating,the same does not hold true concerning zombies...with the undead your looking for well placed head shots,not massive amounts of traumatic wounds.
Now of course,as I said,I have a shotgun(Mosberg 500) and would of course be bringing it along,but only as back up/and for the knock down power.
For a primary weapon,I'd probably go with a Mini-14,.223 ammo is readily available and carrying several 20 round magazines wouldn't be to cumbersome.

I have thought this out you and a bunch of buddies go to a cosco board up the place hold out there plenty of food and CHAINSAWS!! then use some of the phones or radios to get help and get saved also on the way raid a gun store and steel a monster truck.
or re-create dead rising lol

Frazzled wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:Although that is just for a kind of plague zombie, the radiation zombies are much more dangerous, as they don't even have to be killed/bitten by another zombie to come back as a zombie.

Vis the zombies in (I believe) the Romero films.

Wait whats a rad zombie? Theirs undead (alien induced) zombies, and virus zombies. Whats a rad zombie-a former surfer?

radiation zombie? idk

@Frazzled

For shame... they held up in the \/\/(inchester), not on a roof, for shame.

I have seen that movie 20+ times...

Also, that Costco idea is perfect in theory, though there are quite a few variables being left out, if we want to go hollywood, I would have to say human nature would be the number one.

@Golden Eyed Scout

Ragers are just wrong, Simon Pegg would agree.

Also, the "alos" should be alas, not to nitpick, though it just sticks out to me, and fills me with rage.

You plan to hold all of that stuff? And you're what 14, 15?

The ""Romero"" (???) plan seems to be the best, though I don't see you having to worry about the river drying up. Maybe freezing up, but not drying.

------------------------

I would either a:

Join IG-Urban

OR

Grab my pistol crossbows =(

Grab my brother and rest of family, if they're all alive and kicking. (Not biting)

Head to the plaza in my area, which has a nice house that is under construction, with two stories, about 10 feet away from a local store.

I would probably just, block/destroy the means of reaching the second stories to these buildings.

Connect them with something sturdy, or just rope, and have two people hold it. =P

Stay there until things clear up a little bit, if not, run for it.

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:There are several different types of zombies, of which I feel need to be addressed.

Romero "Shamblers": Slow but unstoppable. Virus spread variable. When you die, you turn into one, no matter what.
New Age "Ragers": Quick and deadly. Virus spreads in seconds. Can only be infected by body fluid transmission.

And one that I feel should be mentioned for the sake of arguement, since it seems to share the basic theme of zombie comics.

The Crossed: A virus that turns off the part of your brain that keeps you from acting out your sickest desires. Rape, murder, torture, arson, everything you may have thought about, even hidden away in the deepest, darkest part of your mind, you will act out. You cease to feel pain, or anything really. All you want is to keep the cycle of madness going. Virus spreads from body fluid contact.
The only upside to this, is that they aren't that bright, and won't wear clothes in cold environments.

My plan, in order of type:

Romero Plan: Stay at home. Destroy steps, board up garage. There is a river in my back yard that can be used to get water for as long as it keeps from going dry. Water can be boiled, making several risky trips to fill up water containres. I have animals if the canned food runs out. Sit up on the roof, sniping zombie, but tending to just wait it out for the most part.

New Age: Board up windows and destroy steps. Gather as much water as possible from river before it drys up.
Wait it out in my attic.

Crossed: Go home, get .22, get KA-BAR, and proceed to run like hell. It's the only way to survive them.

I personally would prefer a seige/defence scenario rather then an "on the move" approach that you tend to see.

Seige Plan:

Stage One: Remain indoors. Defned defend defend.

Stage Two: Pack up shop. Taking essential tools. Axe, crowbar, sledgehammer, claw hammer, saws, nails, wrech, flashlights, pocket knife.
Essentials. Water bottles, canned goods.
Weapons: .22 long rifle (my parents finally bought me one to practice for the rifle team with!), KA-BAR, Bayonet, other assorted knives.
get to my high school. Break in. Steal keys to bus depot. using stolen buses, make a defensive barricade. Using axe and saws, slowly but surely remove nearby trees to be used for even more wall building.

Break into rifle range, steal the .22s and get up onto one of the roofs of the school (three floors.) use this as prime sniping spot. Wait it out, venturing past barricades to look for survivors/scavenge.
I can use the football and other athletic feilds to plan food if need be, as well as the gym and weight room to keep fit. Library to do some learnin while I'm it.

I ahve alot of time on my hands.

There is also the "Last Stand 2" variety. Some are fast, some are slow. some have weapons and armor, and some are dogs. They also easy to kill (depending on the type) with a few shots from any shotgun.

Me, I would get some chain mail and a fully sealed suit underneath. This along with melee weapons (one strapped to my arm to prevent me from losing it) would make me effectively immune to attack by a regular zombie. Of course, hordes would cover me so I couldn't move so I would still have to take care but I could slowly take a smaller group out.

In regards to food and such, I would get a large supply of food from stores in the area, such as Costco and Walmart and guns if available along with a boat. (not a small one) Get to a construction site a get a backhoe (along with fuel of course) and industrial steel fencing for a temporary shield later. Also get materials for concrete molds and mixers and such for the concrete.

Load supplies onto the boat and take trips to an island suitable for farming where the backhoe (for a dry moat) and the fencing come into play as a shield while I clear the island and begin construction of the wall. If other survivors are found this will make this much easier but the endgame plan is to have a concrete wall (high, like 15 or so feet) surrounding my main residence and another wall (about 15 feet tall as well) encompassing a farm, the first wall and recreation areas and dry moats about 10 feet deep around each wall (5-10 feet in front to prevent erosion and digging from creating a hole in the wall or collapsing a section of it. This along with alarms and sporadically placed emergency shelters in case of a zombie breakthrough.

The house itself would be much fortified with the supports and such and the inner sections at least being fireproof and unbreakable by zombies. Of course this all would take years to do, so the start would be hard (easier with other survivors) and would involve me traveling, surviving by my wits and armor etc... until all the supplies were at the island and I had enough stored food to last until I could start to farm.

Power would come from solar cells and entertainment would be primarily work on the wall etc... and things like Xbox, ps3, imagination, or good old 40k! (even better with another survivor!). Water would be distilled from the ocean or rain in purifiers powered by the solar panels or by fire. Food by my stores and eventually farming.

Finally, I would regularly clear out any zombies that somehow made it across the ocean with melee weapons with a longer reach such as polearms and spears, chains with sickles or ranged weapons such as crossbows (as their bolts are very reusable) bows (same reason) and guns (last resort).

When a Zombie attack hits here's what you do:

Get a mechanic, a con-man, a football coach, and a producer (makes sure she's black). Give them weapons, pain pills and molotovs. Then send them through a mall, a bridge, an amusement park, a swamp town, a sugar mill, and another (bigger) bridge. Record all of this and make it into an online video game available on Steam.

You just killed the world's population in zombies.

I do hope they do make this game in the near future. I think people will buy it.

To the people suggesting that zombies attacking a fortress with a 30-40ft wall would easily be able to scale it - if you are talking about an outbreak of that scale, nowhere on the mainland will be safe at all. For a start, even for the minimum number of zombies it would take to scale a wall of that size we are talking perhaps a thousand? In all probability far more than that.

And to everyone saying "I would snipe the odd zombie as it came along" - no! The key to staying alive is to keep hidden. Shooting zombies just lets everything know where you are. It is the same tactic for any other form of defense or activity - if it is loud or visible - try not to do it - hide your sentries, conduct farming etc somewhere that it cannot be seen (say behind a giant 40ft castle wall ).

Not to mention the threat of human attackers - in a world where there is no authority besides what you make for yourself, would you rather be in a school, your house, a prison, or somewhere that has been designed especially to defend against other humans? (granted not humans with explosives, but most castles have walls more than 6ft thick, so we are looking pretty good still on the whole fortress front).

The only safer place would be an island - with a castle

And there are a number of those in the UK, so we are all good.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:When a Zombie attack hits here's what you do:

Get a mechanic, a con-man, a football coach, and a producer (makes sure she's black). Give them weapons, pain pills and molotovs. Then send them through a mall, a bridge, an amusement park, a swamp town, a sugar mill, and another (bigger) bridge. Record all of this and make it into an online video game available on Steam.

You just killed the world's population in zombies.

I do hope they do make this game in the near future. I think people will buy it.

-------------------

I would probably kill myself.

I live in chicago, in a crowded apartment buidling, unless I can pull of a shawn of the dead, I'm flakked.

Or just chill in my room and post on dakka and spam and say "YAKFACE CAN'T TOUCH THIS...SUCK MY...."

I should stop.

If this happened while I was in Sweden during the summer, however. I would do this.

Go here.



Wait a month or so to see if the zombies die, if not, kill myself out of boredom and loneliness.

Oh, and I would bring my Revolver, and my Tek-9 With me.

FITZZ wrote: @ IG

I understand what your getting at,and you do make some good points.
I still,however belive that the undead would have a very difficult time going over fortress/castle walls.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done,after all zombies have no other distractions,so of course being single minded and tenacious,they may find a way over.
Incidently,you must have been in some pretty fething insane mosh pits for people to reach 30+ feet in the air,I've been going to shows and in mosh pits since 1985 and I've never seen anyone do that...of course,I am an "old" man now and may be a bit unfamilar with new fangled moshing techniques...pfft,you youngsters and your nutty new trends.

not 30 feet dude, I never said that.

Mistress of minis wrote:AA-12's have been in development since the 70's(hence prototypes), only recently have they made any progress with modern metallurgy and techniques for forging them in stainless steel. They are not available for sale to the public, and are built to order(hence- custom rather than production)- as they require a Class 3 license. Same with a USAS 12. Might as well wish for a mini gun while you're at it Try going for a Saiga 12 if you want a realistic/obtainable mag fed shot gun. The ammo is still really heavy.


And, you obviously have no grasp of how a supermax prison is set up and operated. Set aside silly movie and TV notions. A supermax prison has thier inmates in a cell almost 24 hours a day. 3 showers and 3 rec periods(in a slightly larger cell) per week are the only times they get to come out. That means you could pop them one at a time. Even if they did break down thier cell door- theres multiple layers of security and picking off anyone attacking the doors is how the places are set up. Using the strengths of the facility you turn 800 guys, into a simple problem that can be dealt with 1 guy at a time. So, they may not 'let me' take over- but they wouldnt have a choice in the matter. Having worked in both of Arizonas supermax prisons, and an older prison retrofitted to hosue supermax inmates- I know the strengths and weaknesses of the systems in place and how to use them.

First off, your attitude is up here...and you need to bring it down. We can have a discussion without making ridiculous assumptions. You have no idea what I have done in my life. Literally, in a 25 miles radius from me, (Downtown Seattle), I could go to at least 7 different gun shops, and obtain an AA 12, a USAS 12, OR a Saiga, I have gone in and held them. They are expensive as bewbs. You are acting like a class 3 license is hard to obtain

And when you fly me down there, and I watch you do what you are proposing, DURING a zombie apocalypse...then I will get on board with your idea. Right now, especially after your long explanation, it sounds like a LOT of hassle for little return. Have fun. Ill be in Costco.

oh....grammar and spell check are your friend.

FITZZ wrote: Besides tha AA-12,while an impressive weapon,wouldn't be very practical for "zombie control".
As Mistress of Minis already pointed out,12 gauge ammo ,in abundence, would be extreamly heavy,also,the full auto function (as with any full auto)would simply be a waste of ammo.
While firing an AA-12 into a crowd of the living would be devestating,the same does not hold true concerning zombies...with the undead your looking for well placed head shots,not massive amounts of traumatic wounds.
Now of course,as I said,I have a shotgun(Mosberg 500) and would of course be bringing it along,but only as back up/and for the knock down power.
For a primary weapon,I'd probably go with a Mini-14,.223 ammo is readily available and carrying several 20 round magazines wouldn't be to cumbersome.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:@Frazzled

For shame... they held up in the \/\/(inchester), not on a roof, for shame.

I have seen that movie 20+ times...

Also, that Costco idea is perfect in theory, though there are quite a few variables being left out, if we want to go hollywood, I would have to say human nature would be the number one.


@Golden Eyed Scout

Ragers are just wrong, Simon Pegg would agree.

Also, the "alos" should be alas, not to nitpick, though it just sticks out to me, and fills me with rage.

You plan to hold all of that stuff? And you're what 14, 15?

The ""Romero"" (???) plan seems to be the best, though I don't see you having to worry about the river drying up. Maybe freezing up, but not drying.

------------------------

I would either a:

Join IG-Urban

OR

Grab my pistol crossbows =(

Grab my brother and rest of family, if they're all alive and kicking. (Not biting)

Head to the plaza in my area, which has a nice house that is under construction, with two stories, about 10 feet away from a local store.

I would probably just, block/destroy the means of reaching the second stories to these buildings.

Connect them with something sturdy, or just rope, and have two people hold it. =P

Stay there until things clear up a little bit, if not, run for it.

dude hell yes. I will literally discuss the piss out of the Costco thing with you....I wasted a lot of time perfecting it.

AndrewC wrote:

IG_urban wrote:also, you are still dealing with the fact that you have ACRES of unguarded wall.

I don't think I've ever seen a zombie film with either 1; a climbing zombie or 2; an acrobatic zombie.

Again a baseline for the zombie would be useful. The fast zombie may have enough instinct to climb/swarm a wall, but I don't think a shambling zombie would.

Andrew

I think we're leaning towards shambling zombies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IG_urban wrote:

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.

Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.

Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine in the begining


And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.

So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.

that is ONE NIGHT

They had maybe 3 hours before the zombie's attention was sparked. And all it took was a sound from a pinball machine. it could also be a light, a sneeze, etc. then they were screwed. (one of my fav movies, btw)

yeah, and when the infected FOUND them, they got wafflepwned. hard.


once again...I'll be in my costco...you're a cool dude, I'll let you in...

So will a hundred other people trying to do the same thing you are doing. One will be infected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:@Frazzled

For shame... they held up in the \/\/(inchester), not on a roof, for shame.

No no when Shawn goes to get his girlfriend. he climbs up. All the other zombies are still kicking it downstairs.

IG_urban wrote:
Too much wall to defend, in a swarm situation, even the slowest, dumbest zombies could climb on top of each other over those walls. More people to guard the walls means more people to betray you and possibly to go bat gak crazy.

For the purposes of argument I'm going for the classic shambling zombie here.

Zombies aren't/don't seem capable of cooperation to any extent so the idea that they will perform a circus act to raise some of their number to a point above a castle wall seems a little ridiculous (almost as bad as the thought of a zombie plague, but not as much fun). I would rather have a 6 to 12' thick stone wall to protect me compared to a singe concrete breeze block. Also, consider, your problems are not solely related to the undead. Referring back to the second of Romeros films, a determined human foe is going to go through your walls with minmal thought. From the pictures I can source for Costco it seems to be a steel frame construction with 'filler' walls. It also seems to have a 'no walk' roof.

In the short term, the Costco idea has lots going for it. Food & supplies.
Long term, it's is a box that requires electricity and modern amienities (eg sewers & running water) to function, no fall back bastions, no natural lighting, and no way of self support in the long term. It is not designed to house large numbers of people permanently. The roof is a liability as should the zombies get onto the roof they will simply fall through into the shop below.

Now compare.

In the short term a castle has little to recommend. There will be an effort required to initially secure it, and unless there is a cafe or such little supplies.
Long term, it is a construction of proven durability, designed with the express purpose of keeping people out, dead or alive. There will in all likelyhood be a spring or well within the walls to provide water and has considerable space to either keep livestock or grow food. It is not designed to rely on modern amienities. The castle can become self sufficient after a time. It is designed to house large numbers of people. Should the worst come to the worst there are fall back positions to consolidate to and perhaps attack back from.

Its apples and oranges.
Are you preparing short term or long term? Me, I'd rather think long term.

Cheers

Andrew

PS want an ideal place to stay, google Fort George, Scotland and have a look at the satellite plan. Okay you need a few bodies to secure it, but once you have......

IG_urban wrote:



First off, your attitude is up here...and you need to bring it down. We can have a discussion without making ridiculous assumptions. You have no idea what I have done in my life. Literally, in a 25 miles radius from me, (Downtown Seattle), I could go to at least 7 different gun shops, and obtain an AA 12, a USAS 12, OR a Saiga, I have gone in and held them. They are expensive as bewbs. You are acting like a class 3 license is hard to obtain

And when you fly me down there, and I watch you do what you are proposing, DURING a zombie apocalypse...then I will get on board with your idea. Right now, especially after your long explanation, it sounds like a LOT of hassle for little return. Have fun. Ill be in Costco.

oh....grammar and spell check are your friend..

"
Mr. Jerry Babar, President/CEO of Military Police Systems, Inc. (MPS, Inc.) of Piney Flats, Tennessee and developer of the AA-12 Shotgun, kindly answered my questions today, 23 Feb 2009, which I transcribed (possibly with some minor errors) as follows: "[I am returning] your call about the AA-12. By the 1986 Federal law, any [machine] guns made prior to 19 May 1986 are transferable, and there are 400,000 legal machine guns in the United States. Any [machine] guns made after 19 May 1986 are not transferable to civilians and cannot be [built by or owned (inaudible)] by civilians. And in fact, if I ever get my license up, I can assure you that I can't even have them [AA-12's]. I can't keep them in stock or transfer them, or somebody will have my license. There are 19, almost 20 [AA-12] guns built right now and they are with various military operations for evaluation, and they are involved with some of the manufacture of them [AA-12's]. Watch the Military Channel in June [2009] for the new Robot video that we just did. It is a really good 20-30 minute video. It will be under the "Ultimate Weapons" program. Also, the New Yorker magazine has a six page article on us. I appreciate you for calling. Thanks alot."


That kind of makes the veracity of your claims very dubious. 19, almost 20 of them built by 2009, and you're claiming at least 7 of them are in Seattle gunshops, rather than military testing ranges. Smells like something that needs a shovel to spread about the garden. A class 3 license itself isnt that hard to obtain, but the machine gun transfer IS.

IG_urban wrote:

FITZZ wrote: I've been in hundreds of mosh pits...but I don't see the connection between them and the ability of the undead to scale walls.
Now,I would suppose that should the bodies of eliminated dead pile high enough,the animated dead could perhaps climb the pile of their "fallen comrades" and reach the tops of a high wall,but that would be one hell of a big pile of bodies.

Now,concerning unguarded walls,I'd say that would be something you would definatly try to avoid,of course if you have the manpower,you post guards/snipers,if you have the resources,motion sensors,video survalence equipment...anti personal mines every 20 feet.

Unless you have guards, and even IF you have guards. A walled fortress is bad news bears. Having a roof is the thing that is lacking. If they climb on top of your building, your fine, if they make it over your walls, your screwed. I would rather be safe than sorry.

It's neat that you have been to hundreds of mosh pits. And if you cannot see the connection between a mosh pit, in which I have seen people larger than myself jump into/on top of, and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man....

If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. So in a good scenario you would probably have around 1500-5000, but on a crowded piece of land like the UK, in an area like that, probably more like 20,000. Are you going to tell me that you would find it completely impossible for them to scale the walls? Think......a layer of 2 or 3 "bodies" or trampled bodies, from the sheer weight and mass pressing towards the wall, then climbing on top of other zombies....you are already talking about 10-15 feet. It's only a matter of time. The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....

Your guides are based on US architecture fro the modern age, walls are small and made of brick. Rushing football crowds can damage walls and barriers, so zombies with FNP should be able to go a lot further.

Medieval walls however are designed all about defending against lots of people with low tech solutions.

and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man....
The medieval mind thought of that, the minimal usable proper defensive wall is 30ft, anything your zombies can do men at arms can do. Its tried and tested tech, zombies will not be able to scale the walls. Good castle walls will be 50ft tall with glasis at the bottom and an overhanging crenelated battlement. There is not getting over that by hand.

If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days.
Another factor in medieval fortification is crew concealment, the zombies will not hear or see the defenders unless they want to be heard of seen.

Whether you should stay put and fortify or move constantly is one of the dilemmas of zombie survival. Either way you run into zombies. The best solution is a secure base with armoured mobility, so you can try both methods with relative impunity. For this modern gates will not do, only a proper castle gate or an underground installatyion will provide a proper zombie lock through which to drive your AFV on a resource recon or distraction run.

The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....
Remember what I said about Caenarvon, the LOS cover was so good it required a round the clock minimum garrison of 11, this accounted for sleep shifts and multiple points of attack. This also meant no firearms and against an armed populace with light siege equipment. Zombies lack the needed knowledge of the Art of Siege Investment, frankly I suspect in this you and the zombies have something in common. Things can get a bit dodgy once zombies invent black powder and cannon casting, but that a long way off, and few zombies let alone board members have read Sebastian Le Prest De Vauban's
seminal treatise on cracking fortresses either.

Defending a castle will be easy against unarmed zombies with no siege warfare capability, and servicable bolt action rifles can still be found in enough numbers to arm the defenders adequately over time. In fact our lack of public access to automatic weaponry might be a long term boon, ammo will go much further if you have SMLE's adn those guns are amateur bush user friendly. All in all the only real rroblem might come from panicy persons outside who want in and have explosives.

On a final note what happens if a mistake is made, some zombies get over ther walls, or the gate is not closed in time. Norammly zombies in the perimeeter is a major problem, however castles have concentric defences, towers to retreatto, if zombies come over the walls it will be a trickle not a tide. retreat back to the next gate and wait until morning then retake the walls with a careful assault supported by fire from the inner battlements. Zombies in the outer baliey have nowhere to run to nowhere to hide. Any point of defence can be taken at places where zombies cannot use their numbers, narrow chokepoints where one or two well armed defenders could hold for a time where a staple of good castle design.

Meh all true Southerners are already stocked on the shotgun front, thanks.

I gotta agree with Mr. Orlanth that a sturdy castle would be a pretty formidable defense/home against a zombie invasion.

If you could then factor in some proper add on defenses -- oil, fire, boiling lead, UK cuisine, endless reruns of "Friends" etc etc then you could sit tight for quite some time.


PLus Zombies , whilst being slower to rot, would quickly freeze up thanks to our weather. We laugh at your notions of "climate".

Hey Orlanth, I'll chip in with wall duty if you let me in your castle

Orlanth wrote:

IG_urban wrote:

FITZZ wrote: I've been in hundreds of mosh pits...but I don't see the connection between them and the ability of the undead to scale walls.
Now,I would suppose that should the bodies of eliminated dead pile high enough,the animated dead could perhaps climb the pile of their "fallen comrades" and reach the tops of a high wall,but that would be one hell of a big pile of bodies.

Now,concerning unguarded walls,I'd say that would be something you would definatly try to avoid,of course if you have the manpower,you post guards/snipers,if you have the resources,motion sensors,video survalence equipment...anti personal mines every 20 feet.

Unless you have guards, and even IF you have guards. A walled fortress is bad news bears. Having a roof is the thing that is lacking. If they climb on top of your building, your fine, if they make it over your walls, your screwed. I would rather be safe than sorry.

It's neat that you have been to hundreds of mosh pits. And if you cannot see the connection between a mosh pit, in which I have seen people larger than myself jump into/on top of, and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man....

If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. So in a good scenario you would probably have around 1500-5000, but on a crowded piece of land like the UK, in an area like that, probably more like 20,000. Are you going to tell me that you would find it completely impossible for them to scale the walls? Think......a layer of 2 or 3 "bodies" or trampled bodies, from the sheer weight and mass pressing towards the wall, then climbing on top of other zombies....you are already talking about 10-15 feet. It's only a matter of time. The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....

Your guides are based on US architecture fro the modern age, walls are small and made of brick. Rushing football crowds can damage walls and barriers, so zombies with FNP should be able to go a lot further.

Medieval walls however are designed all about defending against lots of people with low tech solutions.

and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man....
The medieval mind thought of that, the minimal usable proper defensive wall is 30ft, anything your zombies can do men at arms can do. Its tried and tested tech, zombies will not be able to scale the walls. Good castle walls will be 50ft tall with glasis at the bottom and an overhanging crenelated battlement. There is not getting over that by hand.

If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days.
Another factor in medieval fortification is crew concealment, the zombies will not hear or see the defenders unless they want to be heard of seen.

Whether you should stay put and fortify or move constantly is one of the dilemmas of zombie survival. Either way you run into zombies. The best solution is a secure base with armoured mobility, so you can try both methods with relative impunity. For this modern gates will not do, only a proper castle gate or an underground installatyion will provide a proper zombie lock through which to drive your AFV on a resource recon or distraction run.

The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....
Remember what I said about Caenarvon, the LOS cover was so good it required a round the clock minimum garrison of 11, this accounted for sleep shifts and multiple points of attack. This also meant no firearms and against an armed populace with light siege equipment. Zombies lack the needed knowledge of the Art of Siege Investment, frankly I suspect in this you and the zombies have something in common. Things can get a bit dodgy once zombies invent black powder and cannon casting, but that a long way off, and few zombies let alone board members have read Sebastian Le Prest De Vauban's
seminal treatise on cracking fortresses either.

Defending a castle will be easy against unarmed zombies with no siege warfare capability, and servicable bolt action rifles can still be found in enough numbers to arm the defenders adequately over time. In fact our lack of public access to automatic weaponry might be a long term boon, ammo will go much further if you have SMLE's adn those guns are amateur bush user friendly. All in all the only real rroblem might come from panicy persons outside who want in and have explosives.

On a final note what happens if a mistake is made, some zombies get over ther walls, the the gate is not closed in time. Norammly zombies in the perimeeter is a major problem, however castles have concentric defences, towers to retreatto, if zombies come over the walls it will be a trickle not a tide. retreat back to the next gate and wait until morning then retake the walls with a careful assault supported by fire from the inner battlements. Zombies in the outer baliey have nowhere to run to nowhere to hide.

1. Some people are taking this seriously, lets all keep this light hearted shall we and avoid snide comments.

2. Orly, I think you’re overthinking the capacity of the zombies somewhat. None of the seminal treatises on the subject – Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Shawn of the Dead (seminal treatise- ) have mirrored zombies exhibiting any sort of coherent behavior. Their typical response when the prey is outside reach is literally to shamble about slowly. Their most coherent attack appears to be to gather and bang on the door in a half hearted teenagerlike manner.
-I don’t think climbing or piling zombies is an issue. Piling up bodies would, as noted require thousands.
-Siege maneuvers-no its not going to get there. I think working a doorknob pushes the envelope for your basic zombie.
-Frankly, as our leader the Immortal Shawn has taught us, all you really need is a box of old LPs and you’re set. Getting into a castle is both highly secure and epic cool. I’ll salute you from our Texas mission version. Let the games begin!

Frazzled wrote:Meh all true Southerners are already stocked on the shotgun front, thanks.

I shoulda known you were a Remington guy!! Im surprised theres not a bayonet lug on there for you to mount your weiner dog as a CQB option

reds8n wrote:I gotta agree with Mr. Orlanth that a sturdy castle would be a pretty formidable defense/home against a zombie invasion.

If you could then factor in some proper add on defenses -- oil, fire, boiling lead, UK cuisine, endless reruns of "Friends" etc etc then you could sit tight for quite some time.


PLus Zombies , whilst being slower to rot, would quickly freeze up thanks to our weather. We laugh at your notions of "climate".

You mean we rig up TV's on the battlements and screen episodes of Friends on continuous loop. How cruel, but will it deter zombies?

Something to add, some castle have large internal baileys. Dover is particularly impressive, not only can you divert all the resources artics from the supermarkets warehouses but you could land a fair few helicopters too. If things get really bad because some idiot forgets to shut a door, or recognises a zombie realtive and wants to let them in because 'johnny won't hurt me' you could land a helo on many of the keep roofs also and escape to the next castle.

Human error is just about the only way in for zombies.

Orlanth wrote:Human error is just about the only way in for zombies.

We should probably kill all the humans, just to be safe.

Mistress of minis wrote:

I shoulda known you were a Remington guy!! Im surprised theres not a bayonet lug on there for you to mount your weiner dog as a CQB option

No they are more of a fire and forget weapon. If you've ever seen a weiner dog run, once you recover from the hysterical laughter, you'll definitely forget. It takes them awhile, I mean come on the Shanker's legs are 6 inches long and he's the big one...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orlanth wrote:Something to add, some castle have large internal baileys.

Wait castles are full of whiskey flavored coffee? Dude forget the zombie games. I am on my way...NOW.

Frazzled wrote:

2. Orly, I think you’re overthinking the capacity of the zombies somewhat. None of the seminal treatises on the subject – Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Shawn of the Dead (seminal treatise- ) have mirrored zombies exhibiting any sort of coherent behavior. Their typical response when the prey is outside reach is literally to shamble about slowly. Their most coherent attack appears to be to gather and bang on the door in a half hearted teenagerlike manner.
-I don’t think climbing or piling zombies is an issue. Piling up bodies would, as noted require thousands.
-Siege maneuvers-no its not going to get there. I think working a doorknob pushes the envelope for your basic zombie.
-Frankly, as our leader the Immortal Shawn has taught us, all you really need is a box of old LPs and you’re set. Getting into a castle is both highly secure and epic cool. I’ll salute you from our Texas mission version. Let the games begin!

Actually Frazzie, you are agreeing with me.

The Dreadnote wrote:Hey Orlanth, I'll chip in with wall duty if you let me in your castle

All welcome.

AndrewC wrote:
Are you preparing short term or long term? Me, I'd rather think long term.

Long term is a given, who is looking to survive for a day? Actually most of the populace to be honest are short term thinkers, but anyone who puts thought into the scenario will be drawn into longer and longer term prerspectives whenever they think about it. This is why zombie scenarios are a good mental exercise.

AndrewC wrote:
PS want an ideal place to stay, google Fort George, Scotland and have a look at the satellite plan. Okay you need a few bodies to secure it, but once you have......

Hmm, no. Those are good field defences for the gunpowder age, so a GMPG on the battlements will have perforating fire because it is a much lower firing position. However because it is based around massed fieldsd of fire it will require a hefty garrison. Scotland has some very nice castles to use, but I would rule out any design post 15th century.

Im surprised none of you guys have mentioned the obvious and entertaining way to thwart a zombie insurgency.

You grab a couple of them, just drop a noose down from your roof or wall. Then you stuff the zombie full of explosives, just a low bracity blasting agent- dont wanna have to worry about blowing your own walls up. Then you paint the top of thier head orange (spray paint, so you can see them in the mob). Then throw em back out, and set them off when convenient/amusing.

Bombies. Courtesy of having a dwarf necromancer character in 1993 ^_^

A little OT but the conversation between Mistress and IG piqued my curiosity. I had no idea that it was so easy to get a federal firearms license (FFA). Heck, I might just get one so I can buy a SAW or an old M-60 (even though I'd have to take out a second mortgage for ammo).

As for weight, depending on what load you're using, they're not all that heavy. I've carried 50 or more shells with me on camping/hunting trips. Besides, a shotgun should be your close-in back-up weapon.

Back on topic. Frazz is right, plenty of firearms down here and ammo for most weapons is not a problem because every 3rd house you walk into would have ammo...
Heck, down south even the zombies will be packing.

The Dreadnote wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Human error is just about the only way in for zombies.

We should probably kill all the humans, just to be safe.

It will be ok, if we improve two border measures and get really anally retentive over them.

1. All gates always sealed and an airlock method of getting through the gatehouse to be used at all times. Exeptions made for artics, and that requires all hands to battle stations and guns pointed everywhere.

2. Everyone entering is strip searched for bites, everyone, no exceptions, never. Anyone with a scratch of drawn blood is quarantined, bitten people are monitored and caged. Not all bites are from an infected source.

Admitting people with concealed bites is the No1 cause of post-zombie society collapse.