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Therion wrote:

We never knew DE were even on the schedule...

Exactly!

We don't KNOW anything yet!!!

Well we do know that Dark Eldar are being released this fall with 12 new plastic boxes.

OK, I missed it.

Where's the GW announcement giving an actual release date?

GW probably opted to put the GK out first if it will include the Stormraven kit. Therefore, they could help reignite interest in the BA and have two popular selling armies with only one new codex release.

Half the armies are imperial... half the releases are... imperial?! My mind is blooooooooooown! Please look up the release order of the codices starting with 3rd ed all the way to the present. Surprise! It's loaded with imperial releases exactly like it's been with 5th ed, often in an alternating pattern since GW does try to balance things.

But yes, please tell us where GW has said that Dark Eldar were coming out next with 12 plastic kits. I'd love to hear it; at least then the GK/DE debate would be over. I'm looking forward to your next post!

This is one of the many reasons why GW doesn't tell you which army is coming next until it's ready to be rolled out; because schedules can and will change. Obviously it has worked out in their favor, because it does seem that the schedule was up in the air until recently. Or perhaps it still is since GW has not said anything. There's no proof of any damn thing.

Vhalyar wrote:Half the armies are imperial... half the releases are... imperial?!

You're half right.

About half of the releases are imperial.
But half the armies???
Imperial armies are: Space Marines, Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle.
Meanwhile, the non-imperial armies are: Eldar, Orks, Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Chaos.

You appear to have deduced that 3=7.

Space Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templar, Dark Angels, Daemonhunters, Witchhunters, Imperial Guard.
Chaos Daemons, Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar.

8 vs 8... or half imperial! Egads, I was right!

They each have a codex, that makes them individual armies. This is also how GW identifies them.
So feel free to invent your own personal definition of 'army', but keep in mind that it's not how GW sees it; on top of making you look like a nitpicking buffoon (and failing at it!)

Your first 6 are redundant. Otherwise we have to exhaustively include every Craftworld, Kabal, Klan, Sept, Hive Fleet, Tomb World and Chaos God.

Every race has its sub-divisions, but we don't call them different armies.

They each have a codex, that makes them individual armies. This is also how GW identifies them.

I think that's more how you identify them. GW seems quite aware that SMs are SMs. They've simply chosen to give nearly half of their attention to that one army.

At various times I've seen several members of this forum agree that the rules differences between SM codices are so negligible that GW could have lumped them all into one codex, separating each with a page of its own defining special rules, and everyone would have been happier. Irrelevant since that unfortunately won't happen. But it reinforces my point that it's ridiculous to point at a Blood Angels army and say "Those aren't Space Marines! Those are Blood Angels!" (I'm not kidding by the way. Some people really are that dumb... )

Ah, I get it. You're one of those.
Craftworlds don't have individual codices. You've got Eldar.
Kabals don't have their own individual codices. You've got Dark Eldar. (Oh wait, space marine variants are moot but Eldar/Dark Eldar are not? You rascal! )
Klans don't have their own individual codices. You've got Orks.
Septs don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tau.
Hive Fleets don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tyranids.
Tomb Worlds don't have their own individual codices. You've got Necrons.
Chaos Gods don't have their own individual codices. You've got... oh, you do have Chaos Daemons AND Chaos Space Marines.
But Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templar and Daemonhunters do have their own books.

But you are right that is totally not how GW sees the situation, you little snowflake, you. I mean, when I click on the Warhammer 40,000 Armies tab I'm not presented with Blood Angels or Space Wolves as valid army choices; only Space Marines. Oh wait...

I get, you don't like space marine variants. You want your precious Xenos to get their updated rules and new models. Unfortunately for you the game is defined by GW. So disagree all you want but it won't make it right or true unless GW says so. That means Blood Angels are very much an army on the same level as Orks and every single other codex. Boohoo for you I guess, but that makes it 8 imperial and 8 non-imperial. Or, as I was saying before all the fanwanking, half the armies imperial.

Still, that was pretty amusing.

Edit: Did a "Insert Marine Variant" kick your puppy or something?

Vhalyar wrote:Did a "Insert Marine Variant" kick your puppy or something?

Sigged!

Vhalyar, that was both very well played and funny, you're not even putting your head up Games-Workshops rectum, just (largely) speaking the truth, well played.

Even so, other than that they're almost certainly being released soon, do we have any other information regarding the inquisition, such as whether it will include both Grey Knights and Sisters or just the one?
(I'm suspecting it'll be both, but some have claimed otherwise.)

OK, I missed it.

Where's the GW announcement giving an actual release date?

Nowhere but I've been told that they don't need to because at this point it's been confirmed by so many authoritative posters that asking for credible proof is a childish act of denial. I'm really looking forward to the entirely re-sculpted Dark Eldar line, with new models available right off the bat for every unit in the new codex that is being released this September or October. It'll be great.

Archonate wrote:Well DE and SoB stand as a testament to the fact that just because an army doesn't sell very well, doesn't mean the concept behind it has no appeal. It only means that GW did a piss-poor job with delivering and supporting the army.

I think that is an assumption and not an actual fact. It is like the chicken and the egg: do DE and SoB lack support because they are least liked, or are they least liked because they are least supported?

For DE I tend to think the latter (although I am not sure where they are on the 'liked/unliked' list), and for SoB the former, but who am I. SoB being the least selling army was already supposedly true in the years after their codex was released.

GW could support an army like their lives depend on it, but if customers like different stuff better then that army still sells less and GW will logically focus on the other stuff instead.

So, Daemons are going to be out with new plastics in August; anything think this just confirms GK even further?

@Archonate
Thanks, your post about lack of support makes sense. I was relieved this morning to hear of the new Chaos Daemons models, at least that's something non-Imperial and a pretty cool army IMO. I'm just putting hope in the rumor of SoB getting updated next year.

Glad some people had fun

But back on topic, this Daemons wave goes with the idea that GK are coming next. At the very least, good timing.
Since the August slot is for these newly announced models, that means we're only getting 3 codices this year (October). So either GK or DE is getting booted to 2011.

By the way Therion, please give us a link to these 12 plastic kits at release/every unit in the codex getting a model right off the bat instead of calling everyone childish. If anything, the rumor posters have said that the models would come out in waves; you'll still need some of the old models if you want every unit in the codex when it's release, until the waves catch up.

Vhalyar wrote:By the way Therion, please give us a link to these 12 plastic kits at release/every unit in the codex getting a model right off the bat instead of calling everyone childish. If anything, the rumor posters have said that the models would come out in waves

Allright then, here's some sources from the rumour thread:

Reecius wrote:And fellas, the Dark Eldar are coming, for real this time.

Count on it.

yakface wrote:
Would you believe me if I told you that you'll probably want to throw away all your existing models when you see the new ones? I'm guessing you won't believe me, but listen to me now and believe me later...get the wastebasket (aka Ebay account) ready.

I tried to be realistic and posted:

Therion wrote:The saddest thing is that realistically how many new models can they release in one go? How many new models have the recent new armies got? Let's assume Jes has sculpted the new Warrior plastic box, a plastic box that allows you to make a Ravager and/or Raider, new metal Incubi and three to four HQ/special characters. What else can we realistically expect? New plastic Wyches? Bikes? Hellions? Talos? What about the new units that we're being promised, especially as every single new codex has had plenty of them? Are they getting models at all? Unlikely.

Seriously, the Dark Eldar line has nothing but awful and/or outdated models and they all have to be replaced and this won't happen anytime soon because there's simply too much stuff to do. We'll get the most important two plastic boxes, some metals, and the rest will keep waiting for many more years. Basically, everyone will convert everything from the new Warrior kit.

I was illuminated and told that the entire range will be released in one wave (By the way GW has no 'wave' system in place anymore and haven't had in a long time. They release stuff whenever they like to whatever army they like):

BrassScorpion wrote:All the chatter regarding Dark Eldar has indicated that the entire range is being revised and that no existing models will be retained. That is an exception to the norm these days where most ranges have some existing models that are retained while only some are revised for a new release. So the answer to the question if rumors are true is "all of them".

I was foolish and tried to reason:

Therion wrote:That simply cannot and won't be the case. Expecting GW to release five or six new plastic boxes and five or six new metal units plus heroes plus all the possible new vehicles and/or units, all in one go, is simply delusional, as might be the whole idea of DE getting released at all. That would be the biggest single army release they've probably ever done and let's be honest half of the people don't even remember Dark Eldar exist anymore not to mention that there would be a sufficiently large fanbase ready to buy all those new kits.

I was shot down:

generalgrog wrote:Ever heard of Tau? or Ogre Kingdoms?

They released many new kits as new armies, and you really have to look at Dark Eldar as a "new" army release since it's going to be a reboot.

Erasoketa wrote:Did I mention Wood Elves?

Mannahnin wrote:I expect this will be more akin to the Wood Elf release, which have 17 metal characters, 8 metal unit kits, and 3 plastic unit kits. Except that given their more recent production tech, and the vehicles, there'll probably be more plastic, and less metal

Fateweaver wrote:Pretty sure that if the rumors are true about DE codex being "at the printers" (and some solid sources are saying as much) it will come out.

Would be asinine, even for GW, to print a run of codeciies spending 1,000's of pounds, and if it's true about the minis being done, 100's of 1,000's more pounds on production to just be like......."haha, fooled you guys. No DE."

Therion I think needs his morning coffee.

As was mentioned earlier WE's had most, if not all, of their range released within a couple of months. What's to say GW won't do the same for DE?

Mannahnin wrote:Therion, sorry, but you are off base this time. You’ve lost perspective and appear to no longer be able to distinguish the nonsense and wishlisting from the real information which has slowly leaked out. All dependable rumors indicate that Jes has been personally and gradually working on these kits between all his other duties, probably for more than five years. It’s dead certain that some folks have seen some of the new figs, but GW’s been tightfisted and people are being cautious. With Jes working on the figs over a long period, the logistical hurdle of GW’s sculpting schedule / what their guys are busy with is not really a factor.

Recent (within the last couple of weeks) reliable word was that the codex was at the printer’s.

Kroothawk wrote:Just because some people are uncertain about this:

1.) It is confirmed that the whole range of DE miniatures will get new models.
2.) Jes was sculpting for the last 3 years or so to achieve this. He got all the time he needed, so this is not comparable to the BA release.
3.) Most models are ready, the Codex at the printers.

Deris87 wrote:-There will be a Dark Avatar of Khaine, as well as Harlequins in the new dex.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Therion is Therion in NuHwang - A Denier's Tale!

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Give it another month and the studio will start leaking pics....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/30 10:19:00

I was really happy to hear that because it means the studio will leak pics of the new Dark Eldar in just about two weeks from today!

yakface wrote:A full-time sculptor on the books working away for years and years with nothing much at all to show for his work...


...If only we could figure out what he has possibly been working on...


Oh wait, he slipped and TOLD everyone on an official company podcast.


But yeah, I'm sure it is completely and utterly impossible for the entire Dark Eldar line to be revised.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Salt! SAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!

As a conclusion, the entire Dark Eldar range is being released this fall, either in September or October and we can throw away all of our existing new models because they will all have new models by then. We'll also get some new units with new models like the Dark Avatar. GW is releasing pictures of the new Dark Eldar by the end of May. The models are ready and the printers have been printing the new Codex for a while already. Resistance is futile. Believe it.

Therion wrote:As a conclusion, the entire Dark Eldar range is being released this fall, either in September or October and we can throw away all of our existing new models because they will all have new models by then. We'll also get some new units with new models like the Dark Avatar. GW is releasing pictures of the new Dark Eldar by the end of May. The models are ready and the printers have been printing the new Codex for a while already.

Really? I'll believe it when I see it.

2 weeks.

Alright, that's a lot of quotes; plenty of unrelated ones too.
But what I see is tons of random posters making assertions based on, well, nothing, and then these being taken as facts.
Let me just quote Harry, who's more reliable than nearly every other person you quoted.

07-04-2010

Harry wrote:Phew. OK in that case we are all set.

Dark Eldar are coming.
Phil Kelly has completed the book.
The whole range is NOT done yet but the first wave IS done.

01-05-2010

Harry wrote:Your kidding ... thats what were best at.

I said it on the other thread ... I shall say it here.

The first Wave of models are done.

They are coming.

And the best should always be kept for the last, eh?
10-03-2010

Harry wrote:

Souleater wrote:The question in my mind is if GW are going to release DE in waves as is the current model or in one massive pre-xmas season spluge (which is against their current MO).

They will come in waves as in the current model.

Representatives of GW have said repeatedly they will continue to make metal models.
This release will be no different. A mix of plastic and metal.

02-03-2010

Harry wrote:Right.

The entire range is not redone .... Yet.

It comes in waves.

See, I think I'll go with Harry's word on this one. And just like JohnHwangDD said, 2 weeks. Let's see how it turns out.
Now I look like some kind of quote warrior, oh god.

Edit: On top of that releasing everything in one go right at the start would be a rather stupid business move and a wasted commercial opportunity. Note that this is from the mindset of GW, certainly not what would be best from the POV of the players. I'm not making excuses for GW here, don't get me wrong.

Edit 2: I'll quote-warrior a bit more. Here's what Gonads said:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I'd say pics will appear Juneish 2 issues prior to their release in August.

So his source told him August? That kind of damages everything Gonads has said, unfortunately.

Edit: On top of that releasing everything in one go right at the start would be a rather stupid business move and a wasted commercial opportunity

Naturally. I argued against the entire Dark Eldar line being released in one go. Of course they'll re-do the entire line and release it in waves. That can be said of any army in 40K. Fact just is that there might be years between the waves in the worst case, which was my point all along. They get a couple boxes whenever they come and if you want to get a legal army right away you'll convert most of your stuff from the Warrior box or other models from the initial release. Noone will be told which models are being released in which wave and when if ever it will be coming. I was then assailed by more than ten people, three of them being moderators, like I quoted. Now we'll wait.

Quotal Kombat! Round one! Fight!

Wait what? First you call everyone doubting a day 1 release of the full model range childish, now you say that "of course it'll be done in waves!"?
Actually, I suggest we drop this. It's not the topic at all and we'll just end up getting it closed.

Based on what's happened recently, here's my gut feeling about the next codex:
- There will only be one more codex this year (total of 3)
- The next codex will be out in October
- That codex will be either pure Grey Knights or Grey Knights and GK-centric Inquisition.
- The Daemons are a good way to build up some interest in chaos (and subsequently the absolute chaos-murdering army)
- This correlates with what certain rumors have been saying since the Vegas meeting (GK this year, DE next year)

So what's everyone's take on this year's remaining codex/codices?

Edit: pfft, I don't see this anywhere in your posts Therion!

Vhalyar wrote:Wait what? First you call everyone doubting a day 1 release of the full model range childish, now you say that "of course it'll be done in waves!"?

I was being sarcastic. If you go and read the thread in question or even the quotes that I selected here for your reading pleasure, you'll see what I mean.

So what's everyone's take on this year's remaining codex/codices?

I don't know but GW is being so ridiculously cryptic about all of their products right now that it seems to be anyone's guess. A lot of Dakka regulars seem to have fallen hard to the latest DE rumour splash and taken it as fact and the next few months or even weeks will show whether they'll regret it or not

Just Dave wrote:Vhalyar, that was both very well played and funny, you're not even putting your head up Games-Workshops rectum, just (largely) speaking the truth, well played.

Even so, other than that they're almost certainly being released soon, do we have any other information regarding the inquisition, such as whether it will include both Grey Knights and Sisters or just the one?
(I'm suspecting it'll be both, but some have claimed otherwise.)

There are some inconsistencies between all the various rumors we've received in the last few months, but they are 100% consistent on one fact in particular: that Sisters of Battle will NOT be included.

That's unfortunate...I really like the Sisters models and general aesthetic, the worst thing about them is the price.

Oh me too, but on the plus side, their current list is actually pretty competitive (just boring, much like Dark Angels), and there is nothing stopping you from using the models to represent a Space Marines force (you just can't have terminators).

Therion wrote:I was being sarcastic. If you go and read the thread in question or even the quotes that I selected here for your reading pleasure, you'll see what I mean.

I found the sarcasm quite easy to pick up on and highly amusing, but maybe that is because I have been waiting for a new Dark Eldar codex for over a decade.

Redemption wrote:Quotal Kombat! Round one! Fight!

^
(awesome)

I am not a big name fan or a respected moderator, but it seems to me as if GW may have shuffled their release schedule after giving some people the inside scoop, and now people who were not the informed parties are arguing over second-hand knowledge that may or may not be current. I've always wanted to build a dark eldar army, so I'd love for them to be next, but it's certainly possible that GW may have suddenly decided that a specialist power armor codex could be a bigger success, a less costly release, or any one of a thousand (legitimate or ridiculous) financial deductions.

Sidstyler wrote:That's unfortunate...

I really like the Sisters models and general aesthetic, the worst thing about them is the price.

GW is killing the WH/SoB Codex until the new SoB book? If DH/GK gets redone, WH should still be valid.

Did SoB actually go up with the next increase?

They weren't on the UK list of price increases, though I'm not sure if the US list is any different. Although they seem to be available online, the store won't actually let me check out and finalize the order.

Vhalyar wrote:Ah, I get it. You're one of those.
Craftworlds don't have individual codices. You've got Eldar.
Kabals don't have their own individual codices. You've got Dark Eldar. (Oh wait, space marine variants are moot but Eldar/Dark Eldar are not? You rascal! )
Klans don't have their own individual codices. You've got Orks.
Septs don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tau.
Hive Fleets don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tyranids.
Tomb Worlds don't have their own individual codices. You've got Necrons.
Chaos Gods don't have their own individual codices. You've got... oh, you do have Chaos Daemons AND Chaos Space Marines.
But Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templar and Daemonhunters do have their own books.

But you are right that is totally not how GW sees the situation, you little snowflake, you. I mean, when I click on the Warhammer 40,000 Armies tab I'm not presented with Blood Angels or Space Wolves as valid army choices; only Space Marines. Oh wait...

I get, you don't like space marine variants. You want your precious Xenos to get their updated rules and new models. Unfortunately for you the game is defined by GW. So disagree all you want but it won't make it right or true unless GW says so. That means Blood Angels are very much an army on the same level as Orks and every single other codex. Boohoo for you I guess, but that makes it 8 imperial and 8 non-imperial. Or, as I was saying before all the fanwanking, half the armies imperial.

Still, that was pretty amusing.

Edit: Did a "Insert Marine Variant" kick your puppy or something?

I'm going to assume that putting words in my mouth is your way of casting the point aside and focusing on irrelevant semantics.
I never denied that half the releases are imperial. In fact I agreed with you immediately on that point.
My point was that Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Demonhunters, etc. can all be accurately classified as Space Marines. This fact seems to have struck a nerve, leaving you confused and angry.

On topic: I agree that GKs are currently one of the most unplayable armies and definitely need an update. Their list, more or less, adds up to over priced marines that die just as easy as cheap marines.

Archonate wrote:On topic: I agree that GKs are currently one of the most unplayable armies and definitely need an update. Their list, more or less, adds up to over priced marines that die just as easy as cheap marines.

*headdesk* That's why you use Stormtroopers as filler. DH is not an unplayable army, it only becomes a problem when people try to play pure GKs and they expect it to play like normal space marines.