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I do not know about you guys but I sure as hell heard a SoB Cannoness at the end of the eldar vid.

Orks in pirate hats, i suppose we can't question GW anymore.

Eisenhorn wrote:I do not know about you guys but I sure as hell heard a SoB Cannoness at the end of the eldar vid.

Or you know, a female Farseer like the Farseer they already have coded and modeled into the game.

But whatever floats your boat, man.

I really hope they add some more Last Stand maps. Maybe deploy the 3 players to one of 5 different random maps. Getting all 5 characters to lvl 20 on the same map was monotonous.

Personally I wish they did Last Stand only with normal forces, IE, a skirmish game where your enemies spawned in waves walking/driving onto the map, occasionally deep striking as well, and you had to defend three power points (one per player) at all cost.

My issue with DoW2 is not the gameplay per se (even though its more an RPG than an RTS), but that the online component is friggin terrible. Any melee unit in the game is easily kited around by things like tac marines, and its quite irritating. Not only that, building units is awkward, to say the least. DoW2 captures the feel of 40k better in essence of the tabletop; but DoW1 made a far better game online. Also, DOW 2's campaign was kinda meh. I have CR but haven't cracked it open, but I hope its better. DoW1 had a far better campaign in the first/winter assault games.

However, I vehemently disagree that it completely captures the feel of the game for one reason; wheres the friggin tanks!!!! Its completely focused around infantry, and that somewhat ticks me off. Unlike real "war" each unit has a role to fill, but in DoW2 you can honestly spam boyz and achieve the same effect. 90% of your games are micro fights and you cant spit out a carnifex (which then gets mowed down by a unit of assault marines damn easy). The balancing is way off, and I really wish I could toss down a couple landraiders and squish things.

That being said, I'm hoping that they bring vehicles in, streamline how you make units online (if they have to make it like DoW1 to make online fun, playable, and balanced, fine), new online modes would be cool as well. As far as a new race goes I'm hoping for Necrons to be honest. They're unique enough to make the game interesting, aren't chapter XXXXX of marienz, and would be fun to play on the DoW2 engine.

[edit note: numbered to prevent multiquote]

Zid wrote:1: building units is awkward
2: Any melee unit in the game is easily kited around by things like tac marines
3: DoW1 made a far better game online.
4: wheres the friggin tanks!!!!
5: you can honestly spam boyz
6: 90% of your games are micro fights and you cant spit out a carnifex (which then gets mowed down by a unit of assault marines damn easy).

1: Wait what, clicking on a unit icon is awkward? That's... all you ahve to do.

F1: Click on picture. Or F1 and then the hotkey.

2: So coordinate your shootaboyz with your sluggaz, suppressing the tacs and then assaulting? You're going ot have more boyz than they have tacs anyway.

3: I don't miss gamespy in the slightest. This version is far less buggy and far easier to find a game.

4: Tier two and three.

5: Wait, you mean... Orks can do something that actually makes sense from a fluff perspective and succeed? OH NOES!

6: ... maybe you just suck? I know it sounds antagonistic, but I have completely different experiences with gameplay balance.

I think Melissia has it spot on.

Hey Melissa: I haven't played DOW2, but do they still have flashgitz? (Dow 1 flashgitz were tasty)

they do not

No, though oddly enough Kommandos make a decent substitute, having very effective shooting abilities and special shooting skills and grenades.

Melissia wrote:Personally I wish they did Last Stand only with normal forces, IE, a skirmish game where your enemies spawned in waves walking/driving onto the map, occasionally deep striking as well, and you had to defend three power points (one per player) at all cost.

Last Stand has so much potential, but they're stubbornly keeping it down to one flavor. I love the concept though.
I wish there were more playable characters per race. I think a Lictor could be a lot of fun, or a Warp Spider.

Melissia wrote:[edit note: numbered to prevent multiquote]

Zid wrote:1: building units is awkward
2: Any melee unit in the game is easily kited around by things like tac marines
3: DoW1 made a far better game online.
4: wheres the friggin tanks!!!!
5: you can honestly spam boyz
6: 90% of your games are micro fights and you cant spit out a carnifex (which then gets mowed down by a unit of assault marines damn easy).

1: Wait what, clicking on a unit icon is awkward? That's... all you ahve to do.

F1: Click on picture. Or F1 and then the hotkey.

2: So coordinate your shootaboyz with your sluggaz, suppressing the tacs and then assaulting? You're going ot have more boyz than they have tacs anyway.

3: I don't miss gamespy in the slightest. This version is far less buggy and far easier to find a game.

4: Tier two and three.

5: Wait, you mean... Orks can do something that actually makes sense from a fluff perspective and succeed? OH NOES!

6: ... maybe you just suck? I know it sounds antagonistic, but I have completely different experiences with gameplay balance.

Lol, well pretty much arrogance here. Its a difference of opinion; I said what I FOUND to be issue and you took it to offense. I have a completely different view on games than you do obviously. Ah well, thus is the interweb.

To be fair some of your balance issues didn't really make much sense

As for unit building, how awkward can simply clicking on the HQ building and choosing the icon be?

Compared to DoW1, where you have to build a gaggle of buildings for no reason other than to build more buildings to then build one type of unit. How is that not more awkward?

Eh, I think people are too hung up on the idea that they have to force themselves to jump through hoops just to have the opportunity to jump through another hoop, just to get units out into the field and actually make WAR on the other players. You know war right? As in going out and fighting and killing the enemy?

If I want to build buildings just to produce things, I'll play Sim City.

Oh no! This RTS goes against the standard conventions of the genre! The sky is literally falling!

Nah, I'm just kidding. Kinda.

Really looking forward to this game. I'm even more curious about DoW III, but that's a ways out anyway.

Well, personally I liked the larger scale of DoW I. That's not to say I dislike DoWII, I enjoy them both. Relic scored big with this. But, I do enjoy the larger scale games that were available in DoWI, as well as CoH. I personally had more fun when I had dozens upon dozens of Guardsmen to throw blindly into the fray, backed up with a friggin Baneblade and a small squadron of Leman Russes as compared to DoWII where I, at most, had a few squads of Marines, with maybe a Predator in support.

I personally would like to see DoW go on more of a Company of Heroes path where you don't have as many buildings to construct, but you still have fairly large armies to throw at each other.

I agree with ChrisWWII; I enjoyed DOW1 more. I still like the old school build-a-city and then go conquer games.

I also would like to try a 40k DOW that was points-based like the tabletop game is. Vassal is cool, but if it was like DOW, I'd be pysched.

You'll probably get your guardsmen in Retribution. At least that's what I'm betting on anyway, I doubt there will be Inquisition like some people believe.

Melissia wrote:You'll probably get your guardsmen in Retribution. At least that's what I'm betting on anyway, I doubt there will be Inquisition like some people believe.

Oh, I have no doubt about Guardsmen. I'm still wondering how they'd be run....closer to Orks is what I'm thinking. But yeah, I'm just hoping that DoWIII (however far in the future it is) swings more toward the big battles of DoWI as compared to the skirmish style in DoWII. I mean....I personally think a DoWI style game with DoWII graphics? Can anyone imagine anything that awesome?

ChrisWWII wrote:I personally think a DoWI style game with DoWII graphics? Can anyone imagine anything that awesome?

I tried but my head exploded...
Only thing is, i fear is my computer might do the same if it really happens.

I could, but then DoW2 as it is right now is more awesome than DoW1 with DoW2 graphics.

I want to watch Orks chop open Astartes when I play my game, not look at grots tapping away at a slowly growing building. That's just not 40k.

If I wanted to do a simcity RTS, I'd go play SupCom (which I do, by the way, regularly).

I think IG is simply too obvious a choice. They also are hugely vehicle oriented which seems counter to the way the game is designed.

I'd put more money on something like Tau or Necron personally. I wish it was Dark Eldar though just go with the new miniatures. Hopefully if it's Necron, GW allows them to see concept art for the upcoming Necron redo.

But IG, I'd rather not. Get a completely different faction.

Now as for the game, I agree with some others that MP was a failure. That king of the hill thing was also quite meh. Hopefully they'll expand on it and introduce another game mode for us to enjoy. As others said, a mode similar to the table top or a space hulk mission would be quite fun.

Each person gets a unit and they just have to fight to the end of a space hulk or something might be fun. But more importantly, they need to better balance MP.

IG doesn't have to be hugely vehicle oriented, and never did. For that matter, quite a few Eldar player view Eldar armies as aspect warrior oriented, and yet the Eldar army is a Guardian based army with only two types of aspect warriors. And Tyranids don't have monstrous creature spam which was pervasive in fourth edition, etc. Just because it is one's interpretation of the faction doesn't mean it will be adopted in if the faction is added.


edit: Let's not let this thread turn into a "DoW1 vs DoW2" rant. Go to the DoW2 forums or the RelicNews forums if you really desire such malarkey.

PLEASE NOTE: This previous "blog post" was revealed by the DoW2 community forum's mods to be a fake. How, exactly, someone created a Relic account on the Dawn of War 2 forums in order to pull off said prank I'm still not sure about. For this reason, I've edited out all references to it.

Melissia wrote:I could, but then DoW2 as it is right now is more awesome than DoW1 with DoW2 graphics.

I want to watch Orks chop open Astartes when I play my game, not look at grots tapping away at a slowly growing building. That's just not 40k.

If I wanted to do a simcity RTS, I'd go play SupCom (which I do, by the way, regularly).

I wasn't thinking that it'd be 'grots popping at a slowly growing building', but I personally think DoW in the CoH style would be an amazing. Relic showed with CoH that a strategy game that had a large focus on vehicles, but still managed to keep infantry a key part of the game. More importantly, the game included base building, defenses, and all that traditional RTS jazz while still avoiding the grots tapping, you described. Yes, grots tapping a building is boring. But what about Orks chopping open Astartes before getting crushed by a massed clash of Predators and Battlewagon?

I'm not saying DoWII sucks, or that DoWI was the best, I enjoy both games immensely, but in my opinion the CoH formula was the most successful, and honestly? Combining a system that was successful even with a standard WWII theme with the sheer epicness that is 40k? I can not see a way that would fail to be anything but absolutely spectacular. It may be my mindset....but I honestly do prefer large scale battles over small tactical battles where micromanaging abilities is the only way you can win.


Edit: Thanks for the blog update. Looks like the multiplayer issues are being looked at and dealt with...

[edit: References to fake blog post removed.]

Melissia wrote:Wait, you're surprised that an expansion pack expands upon the game?

This is a Relic expansion pack we're talking about, not some half-assed Blizzard crap.

I'm really confused, I was talking about what I would like to see in the future for Dawn of War, and what direction Relic could take Dawn of War to make it even more amazing than it actually is....I'm not sure where you're coming from here. I'm not surprised it's expanding on the game, but I am saying what I'm hoping will be future expansion/new games.

I don't even play Blizzard games, apart from a little Starcraft II, and even that isn't overly appealing to me.

Sorry, I'm so used to people constantly bashing DoW2 for no apparent reason that snark becomes a default response.

[edit: References to fake blog post removed.]

Wow that blog post was awesome! More ranks, customizable units, more wargear options, more MP modes, more Last Stand, and a new faction! So glad they're going to make getting rank points easier getting, ranking up for sweet gear was the main reason I played ranked games. Looks like I'll have to get those eldar up to 80 (DA upgrade for guardians please?). My god Relic is awesome, all we need is Homeworld 3

Btw from what it sounds like, you have the same tastes in RTS as I do Melissia. Sup Com ftw!