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I've unlocked this thread after removing some completely unnecessary posts. Everyone needs to refrain from getting into the discussion about one person's opinion being more important than someone else's. My opinions and arguments are mine alone and do not carry any sort of special status.

But back on point:

Anglacon wrote:Yakface, by your theory then, if I take the dias and the duke, i can change all dark lances to dissies, deep strike the dias, disembark the turn it deepstrikes and shoot the crap out of people, then with the added ram, have an armour 16 (possibly) vehicle start ramming all over the place. SWEET!

Sorry. No options for upgrades are available in the rules, so no upgrades are available.
Every other entry in the book has upgrades priced individually for the model. the dias does not. It is treated as a raider in terms of nightfight, skimmer, etc... but it most certainly is not a standard raider.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yakface - so is it allowed to swap "the" dark lance for a dissie then? And it can be an AV16 ramming tank?

Sorry, not buying it - you are told the rules for a raider are on page X, on page X there are no upgrades. Page 44 DOES have the only rules not explicated in the rules for the Dais (such as the extra armour) meaning additional entires are not needed.

I have presented a logical argument supported by premises that lead to a logical conclusion. Nothing you've presented here refutes my argument in any way.

Regardless of whether you think that the Dias should be able to take vehicle upgrades, the rules presented logically say that we can.

Again, the rules state that the vehicle is treated exactly like a Raider, period. That means ALL rules related to a Raider apply to the Dias except where noted otherwise. It is a logical fallacy to assume that because page 44 is mentioned these are the ONLY rules for Raiders that apply to the Dias. That is not a position that can be supported by logic.

And BTW, no you cannot swap out the Dark Lances on the Dias because its rules specifically mention that it has 3 Dark Lances, and that is one of the few exceptions of how it is different than a standard Raider, therefore you would not be able to swap them out.

Get em Yak!

I'm so putting a flickerfields, nightshield, shock prow and torment grenades on my Dias!

Eat that, enemy vehicles/units/attempts to get in melta range!

In fact, at the points you're paying for him why not go for broke and put every upgrade in the book on him?

For what it's worth (i.e. Absolutely nothing), I would not mind my opponent taking upgrades.

Why? Well, it's a 200 Point Open Topped Skimmer that needs a 240 point Special Character AND 9 extra models (who you have to buy separates) inside it. It better bloody well be hard to kill!

yakface wrote:
*snip*

That seems like a logical argument. I suppose I can live with that interpretation as well. It does seem a bit unclear though (it would have been nice if the Dais had just been one of those "grey boxes" that appear under Army List entries, like Arjac, Lukas, etc in the SW codex). Agreed about not swapping Dark Lances.

I like how yak presented his case. I think this is basically what I have been saying as well.

Yeah... I can see myself sticking in 9 Trueborn, from three different units, in the Dias, all either armed with Splinter Cannons or Blasters.

Sounds like fun to me! Especially when you Deep Strike the darned thing

Except only one unit may be embarked at any one time. Basic transport rules

A transport can still only carry ONE unit, regardless if it's a rhino or a special super-mega-not-so-cheesy-raider-that-maybe-can-get-upgrades.

"The Dias of Destruction must begin the game carrying nine models in addition to Vect himself. Other than this, it is treated exactly like a Raider"

Yes, the Dias is a Raider transport, but this little snippet means that the rule before it is in addition/exception the regular transport rules.

Other than being a transport, the Dia can carry 9 models, regardless of restriction.

Suffice it, this is extremely poor wording, as you can stick 9 Raiders inside the Dias.

- edit -

Actually, forget all this jazz. You still have to follow restrictions given by unit types, transport rules, etc...

Carry on

Yeah, I was about to say... you mad?

Still, one for my FAQ I suppose.