Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

so there is one thing in the game melta spam doesent work on? there are other ways. or ignore it and kill everything else with those meltas

Melissia wrote:And that is exactly the problem I have with it.

You have a problem with Wave Serpents too?

Gwar! wrote:

Melissia wrote:And that is exactly the problem I have with it.

You have a problem with Wave Serpents too?

I should hope not! If I'm paying a minimum of 100 points for a transport, it should be helluva tough to kill. AV 15 Monolith with the "Living Metal" special ability revamped to ignore bonuses on the vehicle damage table(not the AP roll) sounds good to me.

id prefer it to stay as is, its tough as nails, as a cron should be

Gwar! wrote:

Melissia wrote:And that is exactly the problem I have with it.

You have a problem with Wave Serpents too?

No, as wave serpents aren't AV14 all the way around.

I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been said but why not make a monolith venerable? That would increase it's survivability by a fair way and at the same time not make it unbelieveably hard to destroy. (seriously, if we were talking about land raiders getting a 4+ invunerable people would be practically rabid, why does the other big AV 14 vechile get all the upgrades?)

I personally also thing that a monolith should get and ability that allows glancing hits to rebound into an enemy unit , but that's just me.

Melissia wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Melissia wrote:And that is exactly the problem I have with it.

You have a problem with Wave Serpents too?

No, as wave serpents aren't AV14 all the way around.

Ya, but you can't get higher than str8 on them either (at least, the wave serpent I tried to destroy last night didn't allow higher than str 8)

Which is fine with me, as my Sisters don't have anything higher than strength eight anyway. My Orks don't have much higher than strength eight outside of dreads. My Guard have enough firepower to simply use pure numbers of hits to make it not matter. Etc.

Thing is, Strength 8 can still penetrate AV12.

AV14 doesn't scare me really, melta will make mince meat outta AV14; that or power fists. The invuln saves however make me a little worried.... means those 2-3 power fist attacks from my charging sgts mean that much more...

Zarynterk wrote:AV14 doesn't scare me really, melta will make mince meat outta AV14

Not if they're completely immune to any effects of such. And power fists won't help you against AV14 rear armor.

I say keep the lith as is...Im a big fan of its current incarnation!

Monolith really doesn't need any change at all...it's probably the toughest vehicle in the game and it should stay that way...If they made it AV 15 with an Invulnerable save...I think it would be just downright boring and a waste of paper for printing at that point...Oh, and I think AP 1 weapons should still get a bonus.

If AP1 weapons lost their bonus, there'd be no way for Sisters to destroy Monoliths at all even just by chance, or hell even damage them. Which would stupid beyond belief.

16 people voted for a 2++ invul? jeez ....

Mabye if it was armor 10 all around with no living metal and 1-6 on the damage table all = destroyed ....

Melissia
If AP1 weapons lost their bonus, there'd be no way for Sisters to destroy Monoliths at all even just by chance, or hell even damage them. Which would stupid beyond belief.

Which is exactly why I said it should keep the AP 1 bonus?

I know. I was objecting to the very notion that such a notion be considered a serious suggestion in any way.

Necrons haven't been an upper tier army for a long time in my opinion...so why not beef 'em up substantially...it will garner interest from new players, attract experienced players back to them, and help make up for them sucking for so long...phase out? Come on...

The Monolith is not what needs to be buffed. What needs to be buffed are the infantry.

A neat thing would be to make any Necron base Toughness 5 with Feel No Pain...that would make their Infantry a little better, not to mention changing the weapons around...but that's just me.

Melissia wrote:The Monolith is not what needs to be buffed. What needs to be buffed are the infantry.

I have limited knowledge of the Cron codex, however from what I remember the warrior stats for crons are pretty good, no? Not to mention the fact that they come back to life???

I have a friend who doesn't post here, but had a really cool idea for Living Metal. It basically went:

In addition to what it already does, when the Monolith suffers a wrecked result, roll 2d6+2. If the result is 10 or above, the Monolith remains in play with the total result as it AV.

Certainly interesting.

M.

Zarynterk wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Monolith is not what needs to be buffed. What needs to be buffed are the infantry.

I have limited knowledge of the Cron codex, however from what I remember the warrior stats for crons are pretty good, no? Not to mention the fact that they come back to life???

Actually warriors is the reason why Crons suck so much. Once you destroy a certain fraction of them (and their infantry in general), they phase out and lose.

Melissia wrote:

Zarynterk wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Monolith is not what needs to be buffed. What needs to be buffed are the infantry.

I have limited knowledge of the Cron codex, however from what I remember the warrior stats for crons are pretty good, no? Not to mention the fact that they come back to life???

Actually warriors is the reason why Crons suck so much. Once you destroy a certain fraction of them (and their infantry in general), they phase out and lose.

Ah no wonder Cron users want a new dex... my buddy plays Tau and has had to watch as three of our friends have all had new dexes come out for their armies...kinda feel bad for him, but he sucks it up and plays on.

Phase Out is perhaps the best and only viable way of destroying a Monolith for some armies. Having to bring both anti-tank and anti-vehicle to a blind fight is all fine and good, but having to specifically tailor your list to bring anti-Monolith weaponry is stupid. The mere fact that most anti-tank weaponry can hope for is to make the Monolith almost useless by glancing it so it can't use one of it's weapons and can't move...

No, the Monolith doesn't need a power buff, the army needs to be refurbished. The whole living metal thing it's got going must go without replacement if Phase Out is going.

Oh, and making the basic troop more powerful isn't exactly a good thing, either, the option of making them cheaper and with a bit more variety might be a better way to go. Not all armies need to be BA/SW, you know...

Melissia wrote:Which is fine with me, as my Sisters don't have anything higher than strength eight anyway. My Orks don't have much higher than strength eight outside of dreads. My Guard have enough firepower to simply use pure numbers of hits to make it not matter. Etc.

Thing is, Strength 8 can still penetrate AV12.

Ya, and str 10 can still penetrate AV 14. You see, it's exactly the same math. If an AV 12 vehicle can never be counted as getting hit by str9+ AND ignores the additional D6 of certain weapons, it is absolutely no different than a monolith except for the fact that there is slightly more Str8+ weaponry than there is Str10.

Jackmojo wrote:... the current living metal "nyah, nyah you don't get the rules you think you do" version.

That'd take away one of the few joys us Necron players have left!

I do like the Living Metal rule, it's characterful and not too confusing. Maybe add on an invulnerable save as well, but I hope we don't see too many changes to the Monolith.

Kevin949 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Which is fine with me, as my Sisters don't have anything higher than strength eight anyway. My Orks don't have much higher than strength eight outside of dreads. My Guard have enough firepower to simply use pure numbers of hits to make it not matter. Etc.7

Thing is, Strength 8 can still penetrate AV12.

Ya, and str 10 can still penetrate AV 14. You see, it's exactly the same math. If an AV 12 vehicle can never be counted as getting hit by str9+ AND ignores the additional D6 of certain weapons, it is absolutely no different than a monolith except for the fact that there is slightly more Str8+ weaponry than there is Str10.

"Slightl"y more?

My Sisters don't have any strength nine or ten weapons.

At all.

There is no "slightly" about it. S8 AP1 (sometimes melta) and S6 chainfist weapons are all we have to rely on for anti-tanks. Simply having invulnerability to Melta would be fine, but it's an invulnerability to ANYTHING with a 2d6 penetration. Even said s6 chainfists can't do anything to the vehicle, and Sisters already suck in close combat as it is. Making it more survivable would be stupid, and also stupid, when already many times you have to build armies specifically around destroying the vehicle, either that or you pretty much can't build an army around it.

4++ and no other rules is fine in my opinion. Simple, effective and the Monolith still retains its annoyance potential.

Personally, I've always found that ignoring this, that and the other is a load of BS. Perhaps in third it fitted in, but in fifth edition, vehicles are getting INVULNERABLE saves. A 4++ is not overpowered, and fits in with the theme without making other armies' anti-tank weaponry any less potent.

since the monolith came out i always thought that it was very low on points, now i understand this may have been a balanceing factor, but i cant help still thinking with my 3rd ed head on, that it should be more expensive OR at least the same price as a land raider.

in current ed, i think it is the correct points.

now onto the OP, i want it to remain alomost the same, no invul save, what i do want is for it to be a teleport homer for any number of necrons teleporting in (not through the portal)
so another mono can teleport to it or a lord with a viel of darkness, flayed ones etc.