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Melissia wrote:You're probably hearing that from them because they're incompetent.

No fifth edition codex is uncompetitive yet, and certainly Dark Eldar aren't. They take some actual talent to use, but they are strong when used properly.

Because they are an Eldar army. That's what defines the Eldar.

A very simple point that completely explains everything. New people jumping on the Dark Eldar bandwagon and finding disappointment are completely forgetting the Eldar part of Dark Eldar as Melissa points out. That is the main point completely. Older DE players know this and will find success. Eldar players could make the transition and have success. Joe Scmoe nobody hears the fancy stat lines is going to get blown off the table.

lucasbuffalo wrote:(apparently I'm in the <1% of players that like the older models)

Fixed that for you

Why is PfP strictly fighty?

When being shot at getting an extra 4+ save isnt a bad thing....

Basically squads can gain pain tokens. The more a squad has the more cumulative bonuses it gets ( up to 3 ) allowing under strength units that have successfully killed enemy units to still remain useful in the battle. Also affects characters and basically anything with the power through pain rule.

? We know this - just woindering why the assumption is that it is only "fighty" and not "shooty"

2/3 powers have great uses outside of combat.

Ah my fault there. I misread it as what is PfP. I do agree the rules benefits will have their place outside of combat also. Will the fearless upgrade mean they auto ignore pinning weapons also?

It should.

aka_mythos wrote:I'd say that too if it were just DE noobs struggling, but its veterans too. That why I attribute it to the available models dictating selection driving poor unit selection.

I would expect n00bs to struggle with any army.

As for Vets, people can build their own models, like Tyranid players do for half their new units. Obviously they won't yet have had time to do that, so your point is very good.

I really think it is a bit early to call the Deldar Codex "weak" when it has been out only for five days. How many lists and games have complainers actually managed to play in that time?

Yes - fearless units automatically pass pinning.

Reading over the codex the entire weekend, I can easily tell you that the Dark Eldar are absolutely competitive.

The only problem I really had with it is that compared to other 5E codices, every option isn't viable - some DE 5E units have no business ever even seeing a friendly tabletop. You're going to see a lot of Haemonculi 2-6 builds/Wrack Builds win tournies, and not a whole lot else it seems.

It's sad, considering how insanely well rounded the special spaz mareenz' 5ths are (BA and Space Wolves). Some people say "DE are an advanced army: deal with it". All I ask is that all the units are at least semi-competitive.

Kilkrazy wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:I'd say that too if it were just DE noobs struggling, but its veterans too. That why I attribute it to the available models dictating selection driving poor unit selection.

I would expect n00bs to struggle with any army.

As for Vets, people can build their own models, like Tyranid players do for half their new units. Obviously they won't yet have had time to do that, so your point is very good.

I really think it is a bit early to call the Deldar Codex "weak" when it has been out only for five days. How many lists and games have complainers actually managed to play in that time?

Well one DE veteran at my FLGS has played 6 games with the new codex... but they were all with old units and he got wiped. He isn't complaining, but he does seem agitated. The other DE player who's been proxying new units is doing well enough, not great, but he's been making alot of those sorts of poor decisions due to unfamiliarity with rules and only remembering right when its too late.

Well, I actually got the models in today. I hafta say, I still love them! lol. I just like the pointy hats. I think they're pointier than the new models, and this alone (as I am a fan of Chaos Dwarves) sells me on the old models. Having said that, I like the new models too. Especially the Lelith Hesperax. It looks amazing.

The thing about 'veterans' is they get locked into the same tactic model, so a change may throw them pretty hard.

syanticraven wrote:The thing about 'veterans' is they get locked into the same tactic model, so a change may throw them pretty hard.

Yeah, this CAN be true SOMETIMES.

I think to avoid this problem we should have more young people and less veterans in the hobby <--- Sarcasm!

...Oops that ended up in the wrong thread.

9 point T3 +5 save is pretty crap. but with pretty models

Negator80 wrote:9 point T3 +5 save is pretty crap. but with pretty models

T3 +5 save models with poisoned weapons and STP rules.

Hell, Guard has to pay 7 points per model for basically the same thing, only they have lasguns or shotguns instead of poisoned weapons and they don't have I5.

Just Dave wrote:

syanticraven wrote:The thing about 'veterans' is they get locked into the same tactic model, so a change may throw them pretty hard.

Yeah, this CAN be true SOMETIMES.

I think to avoid this problem we should have more young people and less veterans in the hobby <--- Sarcasm!

Even the best tacticians fall for the small tricks sometimes. People over look the simplicity of something and it sometimes kicks them in the teeth for it.
It does happen. It may not be a large number but it is nothing to ignore in the possible reason why the 'veteran' above may have failed so hard.

Negator80 wrote:9 point T3 +5 save is pretty crap. but with pretty models

Yeah crap if you only look at T and saves and forget about the rest of stats and abilities .

I very much doubt a player could have failed to grasp all the intricacies and quirks of new codex in a couple of days, rather than that the said codex is basically rubbish.

I wouldn't think so 3-10 years of tactics can hamper your decision making if you only looked at the new one for a few days.

Kilkrazy wrote:I very much doubt a player could have failed to grasp all the intricacies and quirks of new codex in a couple of days, rather than that the said codex is basically rubbish.

Yep..

syanticraven wrote:I wouldn't think so 3-10 years of tactics can hamper your decision making if you only looked at the new one for a few days.

..and yep again.

I have yet to play a game and I'm only scared about having 10 years of old tactics from which to draw. However, I look at the new codex, I see multiple possiblities and I can't wait to try what works and what doesn't. I know someone above posted about tourneys seeing lots of Haemi DE armies. I think that will be true as they are more forgiving because of their toughness. Sadly, I think most will really miss out on some dynamics if they stick to only playing that. I'm personally planning to field 2 Kabalite Raider Squads, 2 Wych Raider Squads and 2 Haemonoculi Raider Squads in larger builds. Ofc that also depends on points of the game and cost of the army .

I'm expecting to see the gunline o'death armies. Max truborn for venom+sc goodness, etc.

Stupid number of shots it can put out.