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Hi Yes,

He was a Nazi but he was primarily part of the Thule Society (I think that is why he was with Rasputin and not Hitler...or something like that...haven't seen it in ages...).


Thule Society...basically they believed in this ancient civilisation the Greco-Roman cartographers called 'Ultima Thule' meaning literally 'Edge of the world' or 'Extreme North'.
Bearing in mind that at around the 1920s Occultism was huge in Europe (See Rasputin in 1917) the Thule Society grew up actually believing that this place existed as a lost land mass called Hyperborea and that the German people where descended from there....thats why they have this belief that the aryan people were born out of ice.

I mean its kind of hard to explain in a blog post - but these guys were total nut jobs. Not only because they believed this, but they believed that Hitler was 'the savior of the Germanic people' (though I don't think they agreed on his views on Jews, just on the masterrace could be wrong). They also thought, as one does, that German people were born out of ice. That the world was hollow (another stupid conspiracy has Hitler fleeing with the Thule Society to Hyperborea where they had built a tunnel and now secretly live underground...)...

Oh. And they also believed in Aliens. Tried to build weird magneticly powered flying saucers...




Not sure if that is what you meant...or if you meant about Nazi war criminals influencing latin america. Some are still actively searched there I think.


FYI...Thule clothing? Named after this idea of ultimate north civilisation indirectly.

manoknok wrote:Hi Yes,

He was a Nazi but he was primarily part of the Thule Society (I think that is why he was with Rasputin and not Hitler...or something like that...haven't seen it in ages...).


Thule Society...basically they believed in this ancient civilisation the Greco-Roman cartographers called 'Ultima Thule' meaning literally 'Edge of the world' or 'Extreme North'.
Bearing in mind that at around the 1920s Occultism was huge in Europe (See Rasputin in 1917) the Thule Society grew up actually believing that this place existed as a lost land mass called Hyperborea and that the German people where descended from there....thats why they have this belief that the aryan people were born out of ice.

I mean its kind of hard to explain in a blog post - but these guys were total nut jobs. Not only because they believed this, but they believed that Hitler was 'the savior of the Germanic people' (though I don't think they agreed on his views on Jews, just on the masterrace could be wrong). They also thought, as one does, that German people were born out of ice. That the world was hollow (another stupid conspiracy has Hitler fleeing with the Thule Society to Hyperborea where they had built a tunnel and now secretly live underground...)...

Oh. And they also believed in Aliens. Tried to build weird magneticly powered flying saucers...




Not sure if that is what you meant...or if you meant about Nazi war criminals influencing latin america. Some are still actively searched there I think.


FYI...Thule clothing? Named after this idea of ultimate north civilisation indirectly.

So wouldn't in the end I'd still be Nazi's but with different symbols?

Well...no not really but yes but no..you would be similar but divergent on a few essential things:

1) No Final Solution
2) No Swashstikkas
3) No mass murder, world war, hmmm lots of things...

It's more sort of the platform from which Hitler and his goons jumped off into Nazism. Far more occultist than Nazi...

It was also biggest c. 1920 so that is half way between steel legion and dkok timewise right? Whilst the Nancies didn't exist then at least not in name (almost certainly in sentiment).

You could just say this is the Thule Society 40k...who built a space ship and founded a colony during the first nuclear war when they fled the hollow earth on a fleet of magnetised space craft.....so you get all the aryan occultish menance none of the direct nazism.



I may be completely wrong...to be honest I haven't read that much on this stuff...as interest in it is a little bit like hiring Mein Kampf from a library.

The_Savior wrote:I just asked the guys at the shop what they thought.

I even asked the two players with the highest seniority, and one is in the Navy.

I was told that they thought it'd be nice, one said he didn't mind it might offend people but no one around here.

The Navy guy thought it'd be nice to see, and he doesn't even see a problem with it, and actually supported it, because like he said, it's my army you DO what you WANT. Also he said a guy back in Seattle did it too, and everyone thought it was cool.

Also, another point, it's kind of hard for a Hispanic guy like me to put a Nazi army down and say I am the Master Race.

You live near Corpus Christi, I presume?

Seaward wrote:

The_Savior wrote:I just asked the guys at the shop what they thought.

I even asked the two players with the highest seniority, and one is in the Navy.

I was told that they thought it'd be nice, one said he didn't mind it might offend people but no one around here.

The Navy guy thought it'd be nice to see, and he doesn't even see a problem with it, and actually supported it, because like he said, it's my army you DO what you WANT. Also he said a guy back in Seattle did it too, and everyone thought it was cool.

Also, another point, it's kind of hard for a Hispanic guy like me to put a Nazi army down and say I am the Master Race.

You live near Corpus Christi, I presume?

Don't stalk me D:

The_Savior wrote:
Don't stalk me D:

It's the only logical place to find active duty Navy in Texas.

Seaward wrote:

The_Savior wrote:
Don't stalk me D:

It's the only logical place to find active duty Navy in Texas.

I would think there would be more.

But yes, I do live in that area, not Corpus, but in that area.

I think that a persons location is something which should be left to P.M.s if discussed at all. Especially when such a thing is seemingly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Some people prefer a bit of anonymity on the internet (go figure).

My personal opinion on Nazi guard is this:
A. "It's my army I do what I want!" Is kind of the strongest argument. If you're offended by Nazis you should probably avoid miniature and gaming stores, as some one might be playing axis vs allies. Does this make one of the players a bad person?

B. If the theme of racism is something which offends you, you probably picked up the wrong game when you purchased Warhammer. While race isn't the actual issue, species definitely is. The Imperium is especially proud of its hatred for those different than themselves. It's "Suffer not the Xenos to live" to space marines and most guard, not "Give those who look different a big cuddly hug." It's Xenophobia at its finest.

C. As a reference to A, it's a game. I'd hate to think that my friend's parents would despise them for playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare online every time they played as a terrorist.

lucasbuffalo wrote:
My personal opinion on Nazi guard is this:
A. "It's my army I do what I want!" Is kind of the strongest argument. If you're offended by Nazis you should probably avoid miniature and gaming stores, as some one might be playing axis vs allies. Does this make one of the players a bad person?

There's quite a difference between playing a historical game that includes Nazis for realism purposes and purposefully injecting Nazis into a game that has absolutely no basis for having them involved. Your argument is like saying, "If someone wants to use a mini Hitler instead of the tophat when playing Monopoly, that's fine, because other games deal with Nazis!" It's specious at best. Where this...

B. If the theme of racism is something which offends you, you probably picked up the wrong game when you purchased Warhammer. While race isn't the actual issue, species definitely is. The Imperium is especially proud of its hatred for those different than themselves. It's "Suffer not the Xenos to live" to space marines and most guard, not "Give those who look different a big cuddly hug." It's Xenophobia at its finest.

...is one of the most fatuous things I've ever read. I'm fine with a fictional futuristic space empire being mean to fictional futuristic space aliens, so I have to be fine with Nazis? You may want to rethink that one. A lot.

As far as Modern Warfare goes? I addressed this earlier in the thread when I referenced Medal of Honor. Modern Warfare uses fictional terrorists with obvious allusions to real ones - and yeah, some people did and still do have issues with that. Medal of Honor? It used actual Taliban fighters in its multiplayer. I say it used, because there was enough of a public backlash to convince EA that maybe that wasn't such a good idea, and they've since changed it.

Apropos nothing, I'd be fascinated to see a demographic breakdown of Dakkaites for and against Nazi Guard. I have my theories, but either way, it'd be interesting.

I agree with Seaward (somewhat). OP you should put up a poll, and see what dakka thinks.

Seaward wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Oh boy, the self riteous are out en masse! It's a symbol, get over it already.

Symbols have meaning. That's what makes them powerful. That's why they're used. Hell, that's why a lot of the are trademarked. If I showed up with an army covered in Christian crosses, or the Star of David, or even rainbow flags, would you assume that I did it because I thought those symbols looked cool, or because I had some connection to the ideologies they represented?

Agreed, Symbols are powerful.

This topic has come up several times before on Dakkadakka, including one guy who did go ahead and paint his SM army with a bunch of strongly Nazi like imagery. His technique was awesome but he got haeted on by a lot of members, particularly because he kept insisting it was merely a "Nordic inspired" paint scheme.

The verdict is the same every time.

Field grey colour scheme, cool.

Nazi or quasi-Nazi symbols, not cool.

It's your army so do it if you want. Just be aware that it is going to cause trouble.

It may well be that only the self righteous would take offence. Even so, It. Is. Going. To. Cause. Trouble.

Seaward wrote:
There's quite a difference between playing a historical game that includes Nazis for realism purposes and purposefully injecting Nazis into a game that has absolutely no basis for having them involved. Your argument is like saying, "If someone wants to use a mini Hitler instead of the tophat when playing Monopoly, that's fine, because other games deal with Nazis!" It's specious at best. Where this...

I think for some one who wants to complain about fatuous arguments, this one is pretty incredible.
I'd say that there's a massive difference between the family game night game of monopoly and a game based on the warring of rival armies slaying each other at every possible opportunity. Hell, Space Wolves lore states that if their children don't grasp the handle of an axe upon birth then they are tossed out into the cold to die or be eaten by wild animals. I don't recall child murder or death and carnage being parts of the game of monopoly either.

Seaward wrote:...is one of the most fatuous things I've ever read. I'm fine with a fictional futuristic space empire being mean to fictional futuristic space aliens, so I have to be fine with Nazis? You may want to rethink that one. A lot.

You don't have to be fine with Nazis, just as you don't have to be fine with the concept of a future full of murder, demons, and strife incarnate strewn throughout all of existence.

Seaward wrote:As far as Modern Warfare goes? I addressed this earlier in the thread when I referenced Medal of Honor. Modern Warfare uses fictional terrorists with obvious allusions to real ones - and yeah, some people did and still do have issues with that. Medal of Honor? It used actual Taliban fighters in its multiplayer. I say it used, because there was enough of a public backlash to convince EA that maybe that wasn't such a good idea, and they've since changed it.

This is spot on with my point. Regardless of how accurate something may be in the lore, or in this case in reality, you'll always find some one to complain about it. The fact is, Imperial Guard follow a strict mandate of kill all who oppose their empire and don't spare anyone who isn't a part of it. The theme is obviously relevant, and regardless of how much you may dislike it, the theme isn't a "crazy stretch". As it's already been shown in this thread, their is already a sect of imperial guard which are a couple symbols short of being WW2 Nazi soldiers. A Nazi styled army isn't a far stretch at all, so unless your opponent is playing the army for the point of being offensive, I don't think you'd have much to complain about, as I said before, I play Space Wolves but murdering newborn babies doesn't represent something I support. I don't think my marine friend who has a wife and kid and plays chaos is actually a demon worshiper. Making a unique twist on an army (or in this case, slapping a symbol on something that is already the actual picture of the army in debate) doesn't mean that's the person you are or wish to be. It's an army in a game, just like any other game.

Of course, you don't have to play with any opponent. If bright pink hello kitty sisters of battle offend you because they destroy the lore, you can just avoid them, no problem. But please, don't use a company changing its "controversial" theme to show that a person should follow lead. EA didn't think they were in the wrong, they just didn't want bad press, because unlike an individual player in their local gaming store with a small group of people, they aren't a company that has to worry about sales.

The_Savior wrote:
But I do like the reverse swastika, I know what it stands for and it'd be nice to show people what's up.

So why not do a native American themed IG force?

Far more original then Nazi IG; which frankly has been done to death and always comes across as either a cry for attention or a juvenile attempt to be "shocking".

lucasbuffalo wrote:
I think for some one who wants to complain about fatuous arguments, this one is pretty incredible.
I'd say that there's a massive difference between the family game night game of monopoly and a game based on the warring of rival armies slaying each other at every possible opportunity. Hell, Space Wolves lore states that if their children don't grasp the handle of an axe upon birth then they are tossed out into the cold to die or be eaten by wild animals. I don't recall child murder or death and carnage being parts of the game of monopoly either.

Not at all. Nazis simply aren't present in Warhammer 40K, a game that is, like it or not, designed by the designers' own admission to appeal to twelve year-olds. You used the example of Axis and Allies, which is another kids' game - or at least it was in our house, and incidentally used the Iron Cross rather than the swastika, anyway - to justify the inclusion of Nazis...seemingly everywhere? Why would you have a problem with injecting them into Monopoly? Or Clue? They have just as much reason to be there as they do in 40K - none.

You don't have to be fine with Nazis, just as you don't have to be fine with the concept of a future full of murder, demons, and strife incarnate strewn throughout all of existence.

You're aware that one's entirely fictional and the other is quite verifiable as actually having existed in reality, correct? Do you not see a difference?

Seaward wrote:As far as Modern Warfare goes? I addressed this earlier in the thread when I referenced Medal of Honor. Modern Warfare uses fictional terrorists with obvious allusions to real ones - and yeah, some people did and still do have issues with that. Medal of Honor? It used actual Taliban fighters in its multiplayer. I say it used, because there was enough of a public backlash to convince EA that maybe that wasn't such a good idea, and they've since changed it.

A Nazi styled army isn't a far stretch at all, so unless your opponent is playing the army for the point of being offensive, I don't think you'd have much to complain about, as I said before, I play Space Wolves but murdering newborn babies doesn't represent something I support. I don't think my marine friend who has a wife and kid and plays chaos is actually a demon worshiper. Making a unique twist on an army (or in this case, slapping a symbol on something that is already the actual picture of the army in debate) doesn't mean that's the person you are or wish to be. It's an army in a game, just like any other game.

We've already covered that the DKoK don't actually resemble World War II German infantry, so that point falls more than a little flat.

Let's put this into perspective. What if somebody thought white hoods and burning crosses was a cool look? By your logic, you'd defend a Klan Guard regiment 'cause, you know, that doesn't necessarily represent the person's ideals, right?

I think a good traitor guard would be nice to see. Follow the guard codex of course, but make them look demonic. Maybe use some kit mashing with Chaos demons and CSM vehicles.
I know these already exist, but I have yet to see one in person.

Have a friend at my FLGS who has a massive IG "nazi" force complete with converted Hitler commander that plays all xenos players in the store every chance he gets and has lost only 2 times out of at least 30-35 battles.

He has had 2 people challenge him on his army scheme (they have no swastikas only imperial symbols) but you can tell they are meant to be Nazis. Both times he out talked them and out witted them by presenting his elaborate 12 page fluff explanation.

The look on those peoples faces when he put things into prospective was hilarious.

ohh god not another one of these threads. Like kilkracy said its your army paint it how you wish.

Unless the other players in your group were the ones that paid for your models AND paint then they shouldnt have any say and you shouldnt have to ask. Ohh i take that back ask the store manager if he would allow you to use it in the store. He has a say only because he could ask you not to use that army in HIS store.

But honestly i only see this thread more like trolling then a legit question. I say this because a bunch of self righteous people are going to respond no dont its innapropriote, then the other half are going to say no do what you want. Then the most annoying ones are going to pop up with historical information trying to sound like they know the FACTS. But i truly apologise if the OP truly wanted advice. Its just that this questiion ALWAYS shows up every couple months

Why does everyone get so high stung about the swastika? The swastika isn't the " Nazi Emblem " it more or less means " Good Luck ", the Nazis didn't just make an emblem out of the blue, hell, Hindu's used to before the Nazis

LordTyphus wrote:Why does everyone get so high stung about the swastika? The swastika isn't the " Nazi Emblem " it more or less means " Good Luck ", the Nazis didn't just make an emblem out of the blue, hell, Hindu's used to before the Nazis

Do a Google image search for "Nazi".

We all know what it meant before the Nazis appropriated it. But to say that the swastika and the Nazis have no connection is one of the more hilariously ignorant arguments made in this thread so far.

I think if you focused more on the occultism, like the guy mentioned with the Thule Society, it would be far more interesting. Doesn't even have to be nazi occultism, just generic WW2-esque occultism.

Any reason to include Cthullu in anything is fine by me.

I say again I want them Nazi themed, because it looks cool.

As far as poll goes, what would be the appropriate question.

if nazis look cool i tuly feel sorry for you.
saying they look sharp i could , in a twisted sense of the word understand.
but cool...i think you have much to see and much to learn. try your ideas in the real world in some places who have sufferd from your so cool nazis. you might be in for a true treat...

vik

Viktor von Domm wrote:if nazis look cool i tuly feel sorry for you.
saying they look sharp i could , in a twisted sense of the word understand.
but cool...i think you have much to see and much to learn. try your ideas in the real world in some places who have sufferd from your so cool nazis. you might be in for a true treat...

vik

That's like saying do I feel sorry for the Mexican army when they killed everyone at the Alamo?

Or the Spaniards for slaughtering the Aztecs and bring them diseases?

Or the Native Americans, when they attacked and maimed settles?

I have descent from all of these being a Hispanic, but do you see complaining about games/media that involve this? No.

I see you're German, or at least the flag shows you're in Germany.
That's fine if you don't like it, you won't ever see it. Also I don't have the models yet, I'm asking to public how they feel about it.
Has it been does yes, and it does get mixed views.

But don't you dare, try and tell me how I should feel for others, based on my own beliefs and principles, just because you don't agree with them.

If you or anyone wants to talk to me on a more personal level take it to PM and out of the thread.

lucasbuffalo wrote:

Seaward wrote:
There's quite a difference between playing a historical game that includes Nazis for realism purposes and purposefully injecting Nazis into a game that has absolutely no basis for having them involved. Your argument is like saying, "If someone wants to use a mini Hitler instead of the tophat when playing Monopoly, that's fine, because other games deal with Nazis!" It's specious at best. Where this...

I think for some one who wants to complain about fatuous arguments, this one is pretty incredible.
I'd say that there's a massive difference between the family game night game of monopoly and a game based on the warring of rival armies slaying each other at every possible opportunity. Hell, Space Wolves lore states that if their children don't grasp the handle of an axe upon birth then they are tossed out into the cold to die or be eaten by wild animals. I don't recall child murder or death and carnage being parts of the game of monopoly either.

Seaward wrote:...is one of the most fatuous things I've ever read. I'm fine with a fictional futuristic space empire being mean to fictional futuristic space aliens, so I have to be fine with Nazis? You may want to rethink that one. A lot.

You don't have to be fine with Nazis, just as you don't have to be fine with the concept of a future full of murder, demons, and strife incarnate strewn throughout all of existence.

Seaward wrote:As far as Modern Warfare goes? I addressed this earlier in the thread when I referenced Medal of Honor. Modern Warfare uses fictional terrorists with obvious allusions to real ones - and yeah, some people did and still do have issues with that. Medal of Honor? It used actual Taliban fighters in its multiplayer. I say it used, because there was enough of a public backlash to convince EA that maybe that wasn't such a good idea, and they've since changed it.

This is spot on with my point. Regardless of how accurate something may be in the lore, or in this case in reality, you'll always find some one to complain about it. The fact is, Imperial Guard follow a strict mandate of kill all who oppose their empire and don't spare anyone who isn't a part of it. The theme is obviously relevant, and regardless of how much you may dislike it, the theme isn't a "crazy stretch". As it's already been shown in this thread, their is already a sect of imperial guard which are a couple symbols short of being WW2 Nazi soldiers. A Nazi styled army isn't a far stretch at all, so unless your opponent is playing the army for the point of being offensive, I don't think you'd have much to complain about, as I said before, I play Space Wolves but murdering newborn babies doesn't represent something I support. I don't think my marine friend who has a wife and kid and plays chaos is actually a demon worshiper. Making a unique twist on an army (or in this case, slapping a symbol on something that is already the actual picture of the army in debate) doesn't mean that's the person you are or wish to be. It's an army in a game, just like any other game.

Of course, you don't have to play with any opponent. If bright pink hello kitty sisters of battle offend you because they destroy the lore, you can just avoid them, no problem. But please, don't use a company changing its "controversial" theme to show that a person should follow lead. EA didn't think they were in the wrong, they just didn't want bad press, because unlike an individual player in their local gaming store with a small group of people, they aren't a company that has to worry about sales.

Oh my God. Do you understand that Nazis are real? What they did was real.

Don't even try to compare anything in warhammer with Nazis because no matter what they come up with it doesn't matter because Warhammer isn't real.

and i do dare. i think that some ideas are not good for thinking through. i think you will learn. every learning process is hard. your will be obiosly be abit harder. as you dont understand easyly. and notz only am i german but i have in my family line some poor fellas how have just in time been recued from there very terminal last shower. and if you don´t understand that to consult your history books. they might give you an insight or maybe not.

vik

The_Savior wrote:

Viktor von Domm wrote:if nazis look cool i tuly feel sorry for you.
saying they look sharp i could , in a twisted sense of the word understand.
but cool...i think you have much to see and much to learn. try your ideas in the real world in some places who have sufferd from your so cool nazis. you might be in for a true treat...

vik

That's like saying do I feel sorry for the Mexican army when they killed everyone at the Alamo?

Or the Spaniards for slaughtering the Aztecs and bring them diseases?

Or the Native Americans, when they attacked and maimed settles?

I have descent from all of these being a Hispanic, but do you see complaining about games/media that involve this? No.

I see you're German, or at least the flag shows you're in Germany.
That's fine if you don't like it, you won't ever see it. Also I don't have the models yet, I'm asking to public how they feel about it.
Has it been does yes, and it does get mixed views.

But don't you dare, try and tell me how I should feel for others, based on my own beliefs and principles, just because you don't agree with them.

If you or anyone wants to talk to me on a more personal level take it to PM and out of the thread.

If you paint your army with swastikas on it it's like wearing a T-Shirt that says "I hate Jews". You are fully in your right to wear that T-Shirt. You may even tell me that its not what the shirt says that you like, you just like the colour. Maybe you even believe that. The point is you're going out with a T-Shirt that says "I hate Jews" just be aware of it.

nice analogy

reminds me of the die harder sequence where bruce willis wears that i hate [see forum posting rules] sandwichboard. nice reactions of the crowd he got wearing that...

vik


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry i just wanted to quote something wont happen again...

Viktor von Domm wrote:and i do dare. i think that some ideas are not good for thinking through. i think you will learn. every learning process is hard. your will be obiosly be abit harder. as you dont understand easyly. and notz only am i german but i have in my family line some poor fellas how have just in time been recued from there very terminal last shower. and if you don´t understand that to consult your history books. they might give you an insight or maybe not.

vik

You're telling me to understand what choice I am making.

Yet I'm telling you I like the look, not their cause.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

The_Savior wrote:

Viktor von Domm wrote:if nazis look cool i tuly feel sorry for you.
saying they look sharp i could , in a twisted sense of the word understand.
but cool...i think you have much to see and much to learn. try your ideas in the real world in some places who have sufferd from your so cool nazis. you might be in for a true treat...

vik

That's like saying do I feel sorry for the Mexican army when they killed everyone at the Alamo?

Or the Spaniards for slaughtering the Aztecs and bring them diseases?

Or the Native Americans, when they attacked and maimed settles?

I have descent from all of these being a Hispanic, but do you see complaining about games/media that involve this? No.

I see you're German, or at least the flag shows you're in Germany.
That's fine if you don't like it, you won't ever see it. Also I don't have the models yet, I'm asking to public how they feel about it.
Has it been does yes, and it does get mixed views.

But don't you dare, try and tell me how I should feel for others, based on my own beliefs and principles, just because you don't agree with them.

If you or anyone wants to talk to me on a more personal level take it to PM and out of the thread.

If you paint your army with swastikas on it it's like wearing a T-Shirt that says "I hate Jews". You are fully in your right to wear that T-Shirt. You may even tell me that its not what the shirt says that you like, you just like the colour. Maybe you even believe that. The point is you're going out with a T-Shirt that says "I hate Jews" just be aware of it.

I don't hate Jews. But I know what you're saying.

maybe it´s a language problem here but by your last post i couldnt understand your position...

what should your "spoiler" (which sound highly like something made up) achieve?

vik