Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

puma713 wrote:
*sigh*

WoW called, it wants its Barren chat back.

Ok, you need to put a warning on posts like that! I'm at work and couldn't hold back the laughter after this.

Rockfist? Are you serious? 2 wounds vs 4?

DarknessEternal wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:What special rules does Abbadon have to kill Lysander (not familiar with choas)

Higher WS, better chance to wound, more attacks. He'll average 1.32 wounds to Lysander per round while taking .625 in return.

I don't think anything beats Abbadon on average.

If Lysander gets the charge, the fight is a little closer. Abbadon getting the assault would certainly give him the edge, but I wouldn't say that he's a sure win against him. I had this discussion with someone on the "Beat This Unit" thread, over in General Discussions.

That being said, like the OP pointed out, sheer volume of attacks is the key to beating anyone with multiple wounds and great armor saves. It's the same tactics people use on Terminators, albeit, they only have a single wound.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:is logan eternal warrior?

Yeah he is... it's suprising how many rules he has.

purplefood wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:is logan eternal warrior?

Yeah he is... it's suprising how many rules he has.

Lysander too, for that matter.

mmmm... I'd have to include logan on that list then. since he's higher initiative it's possible for him to kill lysander, but lysander's extra wound and better invulnerable save do not bode well for the great wolf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
which is funny, come to think of it.... isnt lysander a captain? and he can ace the master of one of the fightiest chapters in 40k? yeesh. embarrassing.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:mmmm... I'd have to include logan on that list then. since he's higher initiative it's possible for him to kill lysander, but lysander's extra wound and better invulnerable save do not bode well for the great wolf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
which is funny, come to think of it.... isnt lysander a captain? and he can ace the master of one of the fightiest chapters in 40k? yeesh. embarrassing.

I think LG is better personally but that's just me.
And yeah it would be embarrassing.

scubasteve04 wrote:Rockfist? Are you serious? 2 wounds vs 4?

Yeah. Lysander only has 4 attacks on a turn he doesn't charge. 3s to hit, (one reroll because of MC), 2s to wound, and arjacs 3++ save. technically Arjac wont die on first turn. Second turn everybody dies.

Arjac can also get tougher because he can hang out with a minimum squad of WG or GH and cannot be singled out by Lysander. If there is a wolf standard in the GH squad, then arjac is also rerolling any 1s on his failed 3++ saves.

So yeah, Arjac is almost the universal answer to the "how do I kill it" question for the Space Wolves.

Jayden63 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Rockfist? Are you serious? 2 wounds vs 4?

arjacs 3++ save. technically Arjac wont die on first turn.

Unless he fails one of those saves. I'm fairly sure that Arjac isn't EW and has at least Toughness 5 or lower.

puma713 wrote:Unless he fails one of those saves. I'm fairly sure that Arjac isn't EW and has at least Toughness 5 or lower.

You're mistaken. Arjac is, indeed, an Eternal Warrior.

MinMax wrote:

puma713 wrote:Unless he fails one of those saves. I'm fairly sure that Arjac isn't EW and has at least Toughness 5 or lower.

You're mistaken. Arjac is, indeed, an Eternal Warrior.

Really? Wow, color me shocked.

Let's keep the Chuck Norris crap out of a serious forum.

Thanks,

A Moderator.

puma713 wrote:

MinMax wrote:

puma713 wrote:Unless he fails one of those saves. I'm fairly sure that Arjac isn't EW and has at least Toughness 5 or lower.

You're mistaken. Arjac is, indeed, an Eternal Warrior.

Really? Wow, color me shocked.

Its pretty awesome. You assign him the first save defeating (regardless of strength) wound until he fails his first 3++. Then you start piecemealing out the other savable hits to his squad. He really is quite awesome.

I'm willing to bet abbadon might be able to beat him...If he had a unit of LC Nurgle terminators behind him...

Kharne with a unit of 15 berserkers might cause some damage too...


I think you guys are forgetting the shooting phase I think you'd probably want to focus your attention on him, and at least cause a wound or two...

Jayden63 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Rockfist? Are you serious? 2 wounds vs 4?

Yeah. Lysander only has 4 attacks on a turn he doesn't charge.

Lysander only has 3 attacks.

I haven't mathhammered it, to be honest, but I'm going to throw The Sanguinor out there, with Lysander as his chosen target.

yes absolutely. good addition.

For BA Astorath might be worth hammering out. I don't have his rules on me right now, but he has quite a serious CCW and the ability to force a re-roll of passed invulnerable saves.

SmackCakes wrote:For BA Astorath might be worth hammering out. I don't have his rules on me right now, but he has quite a serious CCW and the ability to force a re-roll of passed invulnerable saves.

I don't believe he has Eternal Warrior. One failed 4++ and he's dead.

What about Lukas the Trickster? I mean I know he won't win blow for blow, not even close, but his Death Explosion special rule should take out Lysander right?

Just a thought.

I'm gonna throw Asurman back in there.
Lysander would be knocked down to two attacks per combat due to defend, he's hitting on 4's re-roll one, wounding on two vs a 4++. Asurman is 4 attacks standing, re-roll all misses, hits on 3, wounds on 4. At the very least he would be able to put multiple wounds on lysander, but I think it would depend on who got the charge.

Commander Pask. Can probably do it in 12-15 turns or so in the plasma tank.

now we're just being silly.

Jayden63 wrote:
Arjac can also get tougher because he can hang out with a minimum squad of WG or GH and cannot be singled out by Lysander. If there is a wolf standard in the GH squad, then arjac is also rerolling any 1s on his failed 3++ saves.

Good point, but isn't the point of the thread to see who can best go toe to toe (1 on 1) against Lysander. Sticking Arjac in a group of other people would (for obvious reasons) give him the advantage anyway. The idea is who can go 1 on 1 the best.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I'm willing to bet abbadon might be able to beat him...If he had a unit of LC Nurgle terminators behind him...

Kharne with a unit of 15 berserkers might cause some damage too...


I think you guys are forgetting the shooting phase I think you'd probably want to focus your attention on him, and at least cause a wound or two...

That's not the point of the thread. The thread is to discuss what models can take on Lysander 1 on 1 combat (where he specializes obviously)

Also, he cant really be singled out in shooting, assuming you are running him with a squad (to take advantage of his bolter drill), not running around lone wolf style.

I ran the numbers from memory, so I could be off by quite a bit, but it looks like Sanguinor actually does quite well.

Seaward wrote:I ran the numbers from memory, so I could be off by quite a bit, but it looks like Sanguinor actually does quite well.

I wouldn't see why not. He has 3++ and Eternal warrior, better WS, more attacks, avenging angel (rerolls on hit/wound). I'm supervised I didn't mention him at first. The only thing he has worse then Lysander is hes wounding on 3s and he only has 3 wounds.

rerollings 3s is better than succeeding on a 2. and he's higher initiative. the sanguinor probably has the better chance in that fight despite the 1 less wound. striking first is a big deal. lysander will always be trying to "catch up" to the sanguinor, but the sanguinor will always get to attack at least as many times as lysander does. AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
on the turn he charges he wounds on a 2 and rerolls that. very strong.

Just an interesting note. A run of the mill Wolf Lord would theoretically have a better chance at killing Lysander than Logan.

A generic wolf lord with a wolf claw, thunder wolf mount, storm shield, saga of the bear (eternal warrior) and wolf tooth necklace (always hitting on 3+) would do quite well. Here you have a model that would dish out 6 strength 5 power weapon attacks on the charge with all to wound rolls rerollable.

I think people are forgetting after the 1st round, assuming Lysander connects, everyone is going at initiative 1. So the "I" factor is a very temporary issue.