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its doesn't matter its have *range. as stated in reference at the back of the codex, and in its profile too.
*special range, that described in weapon transcription.

And the range is it's movement as has been ridiculously pointed out time and time again and again and again.....

So you are saying its allowance to be used in the movement phase is simply extraneous? If it is not a shooting attack, it does not need an allowance to be used in the movement phase.

Regardless of whether it is a shooting attack or not, you are saying it is not fired so restrictions on firing do not apply?

2Rymafyr
and so? By all stats from BRB its a ranged weapon, with your words: range is its movement. so? wheres problem? Type of weapon Assault clearly say that you fire with them, are this not enough for you?

Weapon is "used" in the movement phase, not fired.

Page 52 also states no firing during the shooting phase when flat out. The rules on page 70 are under these same restrictions.

So its ranged assault weapon, and you not fire it - but "use"..
"The deeper you go into something, the bigger the problem get".. awesome.. i stop with writing in this thread.. seems we discuss different games.
ps. and after FAQ i'l just laugh at your faces.

penek wrote:2Rymafyr
and so? By all stats from BRB its a ranged weapon, with your words: range is its movement. so? wheres problem?

Again, I was showing that this is a weapon used in the movement phase.

penek wrote:Type of weapon Assault clearly say that you fire with them, are this not enough for you?

No, it is not. As this weapon, while classified as an Assault type weapon, is not fired in the shooting phase... thus the issue. You can't even choose to fire this weapon in the shooting phase if you wanted to as it's very explicit how it is to be used.

kirsanth wrote:So you are saying its allowance to be used in the movement phase is simply extraneous?

Not at all. It is explicit.

kirsanth wrote:If it is not a shooting attack, it does not need an allowance to be used in the movement phase.

Regardless of whether it is a shooting attack or not, you are saying it is not fired so restrictions on firing do not apply?

That is correct, it is not a shooting attack and yes the firing restriction for a vehicle moving flat out does not apply.


The problem both penek and Kirsanth have is still thinking of this as a shooting weapon. Sorry, it is not. Just because it uses 'shooting' rules to resolve how hits and wounds are allocated that in and of itself does not determine the weapon to be a shooting weapon.

So it is not the shooting of projectiles from weapons?

I ask, because you also said :

Rymafyr wrote:While I'm not a 'RaW' enthusiast

Which since you hinge the assertion on the single word "fire" (and not its definition), sounds a little off.

Editing to add:
Nothing wrong with that, mind you. I tend to the side of "RAW enthusiast" myself.

See you still try to classify it as a projectile to be fired even when asking another question. The point is it is a mine, dropped from the VRB.

No, I'm not a RaW enthusiast, read any other post I've made as I try to follow common sense more than RAI or RAW, but this is clear cut as far as I'm concerned. The rules in the DE Codex state without confusion how to use and resolve this weapon with the exception of direction of cover.

But as I did state previously, I think if there ever is an FAQ done for it, I believe it will be resolved as you and penek believe. Until then, roll a die and hope it rolls in your favor.

Rymafyr wrote:The rules in the DE Codex state without confusion how to use and resolve this weapon with the exception of direction of cover.

But as I did state previously, I think if there ever is an FAQ done for it, I believe it will be resolved as you and penek believe. Until then, roll a die and hope it rolls in your favor.

That much I 100% agree with.

Oddly, I disagree with the conclusion as to HOW the use and resolution of the weapon is handeled.

Which I guess makes the 8th and 9th words quoted something we both disagree with--in restrospect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

penek wrote:ps. and after FAQ i'l just laugh at your faces.

Oddly, it seems most think the FAQ will agree with you, however--so no need for all that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rymafyr wrote:you still try to classify it as a projectile

Err. . .it's not?
It is not a CC attack, and does not have 0 range--which even projectiles can, in theory.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rymafyr wrote:A blast weapon by it's own definition within the DE codex.

See page 30 of the BRB for what Blast weapons are.

Here's the common sense reasons why i think it is used despite a flat out move.

Why put it in the movement phase to begin with if it could be used in the same fashion during the normal shooting phase?

Also, even though we don't know the size of the VRB, you would just about have to be on top of an enemy unit to be able to use it or risk landing on that unit after you move.

If you can only move 12" and use this weapon; why would I use a weapon that is going to have only a potential window of 4 to 6 inches of area to affect? Likewise, it will more likely destroy the VRB than an enemy model or unit since it can potentially scatter up to 6" 66% of the time.

Common sense dictates it can be used on a flat out move.

To be late to the party.
As it is now, due to the additon of "Note this counts as using a weapon." to the end of VRB text, one can not use it when moving flat out, as has been said more than a few times.

Common sense or no, until it's sorted with an FAQ one has to declare a flat out move which prohibits one from firing weapons, which unfortunatley this counts as doing :(

Late to the party, and didn't read anything. As has been said, use =/= fire. Check the quoted texts.

I beleive the counts as firing is so you cant pick two targets... (for example.. i shoot my void lances and destroy the land raider, I move too the next target the juicy troops inside, drop mine....) fly off...

Rymafyr wrote: As has been said, use =/= fire.

Unless one looks up blast weapons.

Rymafyr wrote:Late to the party, and didn't read anything. As has been said, use =/= fire. Check the quoted texts.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were seriously going to pistolwhip them with your bomb in CC, as this is the only other way in which weapons are used in 40K Can you find another way to 'use' a weapon short of firing it?

OP cover saves can be taken because nothing disallows cover saves for the Void Mine.

kirsanth wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:A blast weapon by it's own definition within the DE codex.

See page 30 of the BRB for what Blast weapons are.

Q: The Void mine is a weapon?
A: Yes, it is A blast weapon.
"Note this counts as using a weapon."

Q: can a vehicle use weapons after it moves flat out?
A: No
"Fast vehicles moving flat out may fire no weapons."

Use = Fire

penek wrote: Its used after move\or while moving:
During VRB movement phase, it may place a small blast marker centered upon any one model it has passed over that turn.....

You use the Void mine after you finish your move

You place a small blast marker centered upon any one model it has passed over that turn.

Since once you move a unit you can not go back and re-move the same unit.

So you move the unit the distance you want, check if you moved flat out, then if you have not moved flat out you can fire the Void Mine.

I'd vote that "fire" has to equal "use." There are numerous weapons in 40K that are clearly ranged weapons, but which one would not say are being "fired." For example, one does not "fire" a psychic shooting attack, so much as "use" or "activate" it.

We've been using cover only if the target unit is in cover. It's not like there is a line of fire when you're being bombed, you can hit the deck and hope to hide under bits or rubble or something, but the trees 100 yds away from you aren't going to help when crap is dropped on your melon.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I can fire weapons

I am restricted from firing weapons, in the shooting phase, when moving flat out.

I am not firing weapons in the shootiung phase, therefore I retain permission to fir...
Done. Now show a restrictin that applies when moving flat out to weapons fired in the movement phase, or concede.

The Stormraven can move flat-out and shoot one weapon due to PotMS. Sure the Voidraven does not have it but I just mention this to illustrate there is precedence for moving flat-out and shooting. To me the Voidraven is making a bombing run much like a flyer in ApOc. If we limit ourselves to only what we already have experience then it's hard to experience new things. There are many reasons why the rules could say it counts as having fired a weapon. Seriously what good is a mine if you can only move 12" to drop it. This is a good example of where trying to make it a case of pure RAW falls flat on it's face in my opinion.

Well the void dragon can move at cruising speed and fire all its weapons... (aerial assault) or it can go flat out called supersonic .. It looks like Gw need too make a FAQ about the useage of the void mine and the dragon... to clear it up... whats the point of moving 12 and dropping a mine, that might bounce back and hit you....