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Only army I have lost to are Brets with my WoC. Faster calv than mine and stupid lore of life grrr.

Just like 7th you need to get of the charge. Treb is better now their magic is better with the lore of life. New rules for stead fast and step up great for the peasants with halberds and shields.

Their Vows are dumb you go 2nd but oh well. Half the time people will march foward and you will get a turn one charge, 20 inch threat range... on a charge is scary, 3D6 drop lowest makes charge better. They are still t3 but if you get the buff spell from life is disgusting.

I just find it a boring army to play, lots of spam and trebs.

Interesting you find it boring to play as it is probably the army that requires the most finesse in this edition.

Personally, i prefer heavens over life, but thats just me... comet give you amazing board control,nothing says F-U more then a comet on a gunline, and chain lightning is scary. As well rerolling one's for armor saves is very sexy for brets.

HoverBoy wrote:The worse thing about the bret deathstar against other versions is that if flanked it cant reforme to face the enemy as that would remove models from base to base.

not nessacerly, unless the enemy is really wide they shouldn't be engaging more then 3 knights on the flank.

UNREALPwnage wrote:@ nosferatu1001 you are basing your entire argument around a life slann getting spells by the fey enchantress. I dont see that as being likely. Plus she alone will kill 3 or 4 lizards regardless of their toughness because of her spiteful Glance rule. So, no matter what, the bretonnians will have the advantage in this fight.

So 6 dice casting for IF isnt likely? Bearing in mind the lizard player has more dice than you, a +5 to dispel isnt any good against IF. "So no matter what" shows the short sightedness of your argument - and this isnt the first time your argue-by-absolutes has been shown to be wrong. You may want to think on that.

And given that your L4 then takes the miscast (ok, 1/6 times she doesnt, big deal) result and is likely hurting, if not actively having killed a few of your knight deathstar outright, youre dreaming if you think this has any hope of "no matter what....have the advantage in this fight"

Or you take a LoLight Slaan and laugh as WS10 (so you'r hitting on 5s) I10 ASF S5 +1A makes mincemeat of you. Not to mention the Strength test for you to move from Net, and potentially a -1 to hit (so, that'd be 6s then) from the basic spell. The fat frog simply outclasses your enchantress at casting.

Not to interupt a debate of absolutes, but maybe i'm missing something. I keep seeing references to the Bret's lance disrupting and possibly steadfasting, as far as I know in the Rules as Written and Errata the lance formation does not recieve either of these benefits as the 8th edition book says something along the lines of "at least one rank of 5 models" and "ranks of 5 models" so while Bret's own rule says they get a rank bonus for ranks of only 3 in the Lance, it does Not say they ARE complete ranks for any other purpose...

This has seemed like a slowed oversite to me by GW and I've read quite a few arguments now on the subject but might have missed someone clarifying it? have they adressed this oddity of text yet?

Adding to this, losing the charging strikes first is a setback against elite units like WoC, but it doesn't often make a huge difference.

Steadfast rules worstly, destroyed the Bret's best mechanic of overunning in 7th with a +3 standard bonus and +3 rank bonus plus all the casualties on the charge. It can still work, but not nearly as often, and the first time gnoblars or something tarpit you you may want to strangle someone. Basicaly you have to plan for multiple rounds of combat, or pound a unit flat with Dwellers below or Trebuchet fire before the knights can realy break it.

Peasants in 8 rank deep formations seem like a good idea in some cases, I think 8th ed has made the chivalrous guys with the pointy sticks need to do quite a bit of thinking to re tactic. They still look like a pretty solid army, though not as beefy or adaptable as some... Alot of thier playability seems to hinge on this Lance Ranks thing, i hope someone can point it out.

Edited and Added: the real reason the men at arms are 5 points a model is army structure and fluff, the skaven have been said to outnumber all the other races put together, they have no shortage of fodder as they are an infantry based army with diabolical options. the Bret's men at arms on the other hand wander accidentaly out of thier units, die of infections due to poor hygene, eat one another for lack of forage or bagage (as the knights barely notice or look after them) and breed more slowly than rats. Look at the pesant archer model, he is blindfolded to improve his accuracy.
Basicly the reason for the pointage is because you are paying for crappy foot troops in an army that is all about knights, as opposed to paying for crappy foot troops in an army that's all about foot troops. Like the Hellcanon costing an arm and a leg because it's a ranged option in an army with very few.

RuneOfGromril screw arguments read the bret FAQ

Nice, Do you have a link to the bret FAQ? For some reason I can never get to the GW site, mine always reports it can't display it due to connection. When i read it 4 months or so ago I didn't notice a clarification.

Yeah they erratad the lance formation so ranks of three get all the 8th edition bonuses ranks of 5 would.

GW FAQs here, if it's been 4 months i'd suggest you download and read all of them. If you can't open the link i suggest asking a friend to download and e-mail them to you.

Well that is really good news for them, without that they'd be on the gimpy side. I'd heard that a lot of tourneys were making the Brett's play the Rules as Written on that before the apparent change.

Yeah, can't open that link, I wonder what gives. I'll have to try on another comp.