Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yes, Ordo Hereticus checks on other Inquisitors to assure no heresy. They are the only imperial faction with the power to be able to do that.

Thank god...I mean... Emperor for that.

Brother Coa wrote:
And do Ordo Hereticus check out other Inquisitors?

Indeed they do

Gregor Eisenhorn, in fealty to the God-Emperor, our undying lord, and by the grace of the Golden Throne, in the name of the Ordo Malleus and the Inquisition, I call thee diabolis, and in the testimony of thy crimes, I submit this carta. May imperial justice account in all balance. The Emperor protects.
Codex: Daemonhunters (3rd Edition), p. 10

That's clearly a Malleus quote but the same thing applies

i think that quote was used recently in DoW 2 retribution when the exterminatus starts on Typhon, a variation of it anyway

Kanluwen wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Its a little known fact that all Storm Troopers are trained for =][= use, and the lowest performing are passed onto the Guard. This shows how exacting the standards to become part of the Inquisition's standing army are.

Bollocks. I've yet to see any piece of background about "all Storm Troopers are trained for Inquisitorial use".

The Inquisition, however, does maintain training facilities which recruit from the Schola Progenium. There's also a number of families which the Inquisition seemingly recruits from specifically because of their outstanding service to the Imperium previous.

Amberly Vail in Caves of Ice makes a comment on how Storm Troopers are trained for Inq. use but many fail to make the mark and are "palmed off on the guard" they are still efficient killers but obviously not as good as the guys who make the grade.

The Kasrkin disprove this theory--and tell me that Sandy Mitchell needs to get his crap together.

I direly wish people would stop citing Cain as 'canon'.
It's, frankly, meant to be very tongue-in-cheek, propaganda styled fiction in the vein of the 'Flashman' or Horatio Hornblower pieces.

Karskins do not disprove anything, they are completely seperate from storm troopers as stated in their fluff and are trained completely differently.

Brother Coa wrote:

Fafnir wrote:
It wouldn't cost very much at all. It's incredibly unlikely that squashing a single marine chapter, even one as large as the Templar, would cost the Imperium to lose that much. And even if it did, that's a miniscule figure for the imperium that is easily reclaimed.

Let's see, to bring down a chapter that is 9000+ marines strong and it has Space Fleets... And don't forget that Imperium's forces are already stretch to their limits. Imperium would lose that much, perhaps even more. Just remember Aurelia sector. Against the invasion of Orks, Tyranids and Eldar it was only defended by 200 Blood Ravens and 1 Regiment of the Imperial Guard. And they have barely won. And why do you think that BT are easy enemy? They have defeated everyone they waged war against.

And most of that work was done by the Imperial Gaurd. The Space Marines are shock troops. They get in, do their job, and get out. Their job is to cut off the head of enemy operations. It's the gaurd who fight the real war. In prolonged combat, Space Marines would fall quite quickly. Their weaponry is not meant for long term combat.

Man you guys just dont seem to get just how BIG the a place the galaxy is.
I see it all the time on this forum. No understanding of size and space.

We will just use chapter X, now said Space Marine Chapter Master says...umm No!!! I Answer to no man!! Only to the Emperor!!

Now the =I= guys get all put out over this and says....But I command in the name of the God Emperor!!!

Chapter master X standing on the bridge of his battle barge says. He is NOT a GOD!!!
Turns to his fire control officer and says...
Fire at will commander!!! BOOM!! dead =I=.

Now the =I= guys get a message out before his ship is blown to atoms. And with the powerful might of the political arm of the =I= gets Chapter X put on the to do list of the =I=. And they are now considered to be renegade!!

Chapter Master X says all this =I= crap is BS!!
To WAR!!!! Turns to his navigator and says...Second star to the left and straight on till morning.
Now he has a space fleet...with the fire power to destroy worlds from orbit. And most important of all the will to use it.
There is no way he will EVER and I mean EVER be found unless he wants to be found. The galaxy is just that BIG.

You think terrorist are bad here on earth...give them a space fleet full of crazed super soildiers with a chip on there shoulders.
With the power go where they will and to pick and chose there fights as they see fit.

Now I know a bunch of you guys will say but..but the =I= have these guys that can see into the future and..and they know stuff.
O and what about the Space Navy and OMG the Imperial Guard numbers are in the millions!!!! I say so what.

You have any idea how hard it is to find one sub in the ocean that does not want to be found.
It darn near takes a act of God.

Now just think for a second about the SIZE of the Galaxy.

The Imperium of Man is a million worlds? Like so....there are 50 BILLION worlds in the Milky Way Galaxy!

In game terms those 1000 space marines will be ghost and when they decide to make war on the Empire of Man.
They will more then pay for there points 1000x times over. And then maybe get wiped out.
And that will only happen if they decide to make a stand on some world......but why would they.
They would never stay in one spot, never fight to hold worlds just slash/burn there way across the stars.

And in the end those =I= guys after a 100 worlds lay in ruins would be like.....well ok maybe this was not such a good idea after all.

Or worse yet, Chapter X says...hay them Tau guys pay well for mercenaries. So lets go be friends, O here Mr Tau these are all the known locations of the forces in the sector. Good Hunting.
And by the way...can I get me some of those pulse rifles. And man...those rail guns are looking good!!!
Think you boys could spare some of them for say.....the patrol patterns of the forces in the Damocles Gulf.

The Damage Chapter X could do the the Empire just is not worth the risk.
Yea the =I= is uber powerful. And I agree they could order the SM to do there biding....but they had better ask.
And they better ask nice. And if the Chapter master said no...something tells me it would be a most foolish =I= Indeed to make war on said chapter.

Just do the math.
If the =I= types job is to protect the empire then kicking over that giant ant hill of Chapter X is not the way to go about doing it.
In fact its got to be one of the most out right insane ways of doing things.
In sort im thinking that there are ALOT of =I= out there spying on there own guys just to keep this type of thing from ever happening.
But thats just how I see it.

If it ever got that far, they would be deemed heretics lost to chaos. Then they would be dealt with as they deal with all chaos space marines. This doesn't mean they would easily wipe them out one way or the other, just as there is constant conflict with the other CSM.

Inquisitors can accuse but cannot inspect others without permission. I presume Lord Inquisitors have this power.

The Inquisition is massively more powerful than a chapter. They can enact Exterminatus and kill any Astartes that stand in their way.

However they may only requisition a company or chapter if the need is high enough, and if a Daemonic incursion is that big then the company or chapter will most likely be dispatched anyway.

All still depends on who or what is involved and what the inquisitor in question thinks is worth doing. Eisenhorn, for example, somehow attracts the attention of a Ministorium agent, witch hunter Tantalid. Shots are exchanged over accusations of heresy, but for some reason Eisenhorn doesn't command the closest marine chapter to wipe out Tantalid and any church that would harbor him. Apparently he feels that the necessary reports would take much too long to write.

Later he does cut the priest in half after being ambushed by him again - in a cathedral no less. This doesn't seem to go on his record, and he also doesn't have the cathedral world demolished for letting the priest land.

The power of the Inquisitional Remit is unlimited but only a fool goes to the well too many times.

Why do we not see more Inquisitors going off the reservation? Because each Inquisitor knows just how brutally the Inquisition polices itself.



By the way, is it true that the Wardex removes Inquisitional Oversight from the Grey Knights?

In a stand up fight, the BT's would obviously lose. But the space marines do not fight stand up fights.

space marine 3rd ed codex "it is hard to imagine that the adeptus astrates would accept a ship to ship fight on any but the most favorable terms, instead operating against shipping lanes, docking facilities and other vulnerable assets. I only pray that they remain on our side"

The BTs hold immense strength in that they have no shipping lanes or docking facilities, because as previously pointed out, battles in space only happen when both sides want it to. It's just too easy to run away. The BTs would be able to pick and choose their targets and the fleet would either spread itself thin and die piece by piece or be following a ghost trail.

And once the Inquisitor requests enough resources to have someone high up look into what the feth is going on over there (if you immediately think that no amount of resource is too great and no authority strong enough, simply multiply the amount of resources you can imagine by 100, and increase the rank by tenfold. repeat until the numbers start looking cloudy) That someone would see that some inquisitor had just drained a crusade's amount of forces to fight what is essentially a grudge match, causing extensive holes in the security of the segmentum. That's when the order comes: Nuh uh. stop or be a heretic. and he soon realises that the only loyal forces he commands are the =I= forces he had before he started requisitioning troops left and right, and all his power counts for nothing when his navy and guard regiments are commanded to leave back to their posts.

Spetulhu wrote:All still depends on who or what is involved and what the inquisitor in question thinks is worth doing. Eisenhorn, for example, somehow attracts the attention of a Ministorium agent, witch hunter Tantalid. Shots are exchanged over accusations of heresy, but for some reason Eisenhorn doesn't command the closest marine chapter to wipe out Tantalid and any church that would harbor him. Apparently he feels that the necessary reports would take much too long to write.
Later he does cut the priest in half after being ambushed by him again - in a cathedral no less. This doesn't seem to go on his record, and he also doesn't have the cathedral world demolished for letting the priest land.

Because the Ecclesiarchy is just as powerful as the Inquisition in some cases.

The first encounter between Tantalid and Eisenhorn seems to be more that Eisenhorn pulled the wool over Tantalid's eyes and got his objective accomplished, while Tantalid was made to look like a toolbag.

The second encounter was when Eisenhorn was declared a heretic by the Ordo Malleus. He ended up, as you mentioned, having to kill Tantalid because there's no way in hell he'd let that spanker be at his back.

Kanluwen wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:All still depends on who or what is involved and what the inquisitor in question thinks is worth doing. Eisenhorn, for example, somehow attracts the attention of a Ministorium agent, witch hunter Tantalid. Shots are exchanged over accusations of heresy, but for some reason Eisenhorn doesn't command the closest marine chapter to wipe out Tantalid and any church that would harbor him. Apparently he feels that the necessary reports would take much too long to write.
Later he does cut the priest in half after being ambushed by him again - in a cathedral no less. This doesn't seem to go on his record, and he also doesn't have the cathedral world demolished for letting the priest land.

Because the Ecclesiarchy is just as powerful as the Inquisition in some cases.

The first encounter between Tantalid and Eisenhorn seems to be more that Eisenhorn pulled the wool over Tantalid's eyes and got his objective accomplished, while Tantalid was made to look like a toolbag.

The second encounter was when Eisenhorn was declared a heretic by the Ordo Malleus. He ended up, as you mentioned, having to kill Tantalid because there's no way in hell he'd let that spanker be at his back.

I can't correctly remember but is this after or before his encounters with Cherubael and capturing Pontius Glaw in his vox in a box form? If it's after then I guess Tantalid has some grounds to do so and Eisenhorn probably knows that he is on shaky ground.

If you ever get the chance to read Forge Worlds 'IA9; The Badab War', an Astartes refuses to follow an imperial dictate. It's a really good read.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:All still depends on who or what is involved and what the inquisitor in question thinks is worth doing. Eisenhorn, for example, somehow attracts the attention of a Ministorium agent, witch hunter Tantalid. Shots are exchanged over accusations of heresy, but for some reason Eisenhorn doesn't command the closest marine chapter to wipe out Tantalid and any church that would harbor him. Apparently he feels that the necessary reports would take much too long to write.
Later he does cut the priest in half after being ambushed by him again - in a cathedral no less. This doesn't seem to go on his record, and he also doesn't have the cathedral world demolished for letting the priest land.

Because the Ecclesiarchy is just as powerful as the Inquisition in some cases.

The first encounter between Tantalid and Eisenhorn seems to be more that Eisenhorn pulled the wool over Tantalid's eyes and got his objective accomplished, while Tantalid was made to look like a toolbag.

The second encounter was when Eisenhorn was declared a heretic by the Ordo Malleus. He ended up, as you mentioned, having to kill Tantalid because there's no way in hell he'd let that spanker be at his back.

I can't correctly remember but is this after or before his encounters with Cherubael and capturing Pontius Glaw in his vox in a box form? If it's after then I guess Tantalid has some grounds to do so and Eisenhorn probably knows that he is on shaky ground.

Afterwards.

He kills Tantalid afterwards, but Tantalid had been hunting him for years at that point.

Uhlan wrote:If you ever get the chance to read Forge Worlds 'IA9; The Badab War', an Astartes refuses to follow an imperial dictate. It's a really good read.

They refuse to follow a dictate that not only all other chapter follow but ensures their purity and loyalty.
They also destroyed a bunch of Imperial ships and then seceded from the Imperium declaring themselves free from Imperial rule.
In theory their are a lot of organisations that can order an SM chapter about. However, Sm chapters are notoriously proud of their independence and most if not all organisations will realise the best way to get a chapter to co-operate is to ask not order.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:He kills Tantalid afterwards, but Tantalid had been hunting him for years at that point.

Yes and no.

Tantalid had been harboring a grudge. He couldn't have done anything, even indirectly, against Eisenhorn until Eisenhorn was declared rogue.

Then Tantalid just stepped it up and started hunting hardcore.

Kanluwen wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:He kills Tantalid afterwards, but Tantalid had been hunting him for years at that point.

Yes and no.

Tantalid had been harboring a grudge. He couldn't have done anything, even indirectly, against Eisenhorn until Eisenhorn was declared rogue.

Then Tantalid just stepped it up and started hunting hardcore.

He attacks him at the beginning of Maleus, before he's declared a heretic over Cherubael stalking him. Which happens when he's on Cadia, later in Maleus.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:He kills Tantalid afterwards, but Tantalid had been hunting him for years at that point.

Yes and no.

Tantalid had been harboring a grudge. He couldn't have done anything, even indirectly, against Eisenhorn until Eisenhorn was declared rogue.

Then Tantalid just stepped it up and started hunting hardcore.

He attacks him at the beginning of Malleus, before he's declared a heretic over Cherubael stalking him. Which happens when he's on Cadia, later in Malleus.

He attacks him, yeah. But he didn't have any backing or reason for it, and he damned well knew he was screwed--it's why he ran after Eisenhorn's back-up arrived.

That was on Lethe Eleven, with the whole Beldame Seldana affair--before Eisenhorn was declared rogue.

It wasn't until Orbul Infanta that the two really clashed in earnest, and that's where Eisenhorn killed him--in the midst of an Ecclesiarchal shrineworld.

And once the Inquisitor requests enough resources to have someone high up look into what the feth is going on over there (if you immediately think that no amount of resource is too great and no authority strong enough, simply multiply the amount of resources you can imagine by 100, and increase the rank by tenfold. repeat until the numbers start looking cloudy) That someone would see that some inquisitor had just drained a crusade's amount of forces to fight what is essentially a grudge match, causing extensive holes in the security of the segmentum. That's when the order comes: Nuh uh. stop or be a heretic. and he soon realises that the only loyal forces he commands are the =I= forces he had before he started requisitioning troops left and right, and all his power counts for nothing when his navy and guard regiments are commanded to leave back to their posts.

Then they would be accused as heretics after the whole affair is over. To deny the Remit is to admit heresy.

Kanluwen wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:He kills Tantalid afterwards, but Tantalid had been hunting him for years at that point.

Yes and no.

Tantalid had been harboring a grudge. He couldn't have done anything, even indirectly, against Eisenhorn until Eisenhorn was declared rogue.

Then Tantalid just stepped it up and started hunting hardcore.

He attacks him at the beginning of Malleus, before he's declared a heretic over Cherubael stalking him. Which happens when he's on Cadia, later in Malleus.

He attacks him, yeah. But he didn't have any backing or reason for it, and he damned well knew he was screwed--it's why he ran after Eisenhorn's back-up arrived.

That was on Lethe Eleven, with the whole Beldame Seldana affair--before Eisenhorn was declared rogue.

It wasn't until Orbul Infanta that the two really clashed in earnest, and that's where Eisenhorn killed him--in the midst of an Ecclesiarchal shrineworld.

But he was hunting him by that point, even if he had no official sanction for it. Previously, he was too occupied by the Ophidian Campaign to follow through on his grudge/insane delusions against Eisenhorn.

He was hunting Beldame Seldana, not Eisenhorn

She wasn't a psyker, though. It makes far more sense to say "Tantalid was a treasonous lunatic hunting an Inquisitor for serving the Imperium instead of fighting it" than "a witchhunter was hunting a non-psyker xenophile alone, and just happened to run into, and deliberately attempt to kill, an Inquisitor".

Whoa whoa whoa. He wasn't really a "Witchhunter" in the sense of the Inquisition.

He was a "Witchfinder". He was a member of the Ecclesiarchy, supposedly detailed to actively hunt "rogue psykers".

It's how Eisenhorn and he clashed in the first place.

That's all I'm remembering, without having read Eisenhorn within the past year.

Cerebrium wrote:The Inquisition (including the 3 main ordos), the Mechanicus (including the Titan Legions), the High Lords, the Officio Assassinotorum, the Custodes and Ecclesiarchy ALL pull rank on the Astartes.

Don't forget the True Bad Boy out there, the Imperial Navy. If the IN gets mad, everyone gets hurt . Join the Navy., See the universe and kill it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BluntmanDC wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:The Inquisition (including the 3 main ordos), the Mechanicus (including the Titan Legions), the High Lords, the Officio Assassinotorum, the Custodes and Ecclesiarchy ALL pull rank on the Astartes.

The Mechanicus and the Astartes has an agreement.
Ecclesiarchy have no power at all over SM.
The officio Assassinaorum doesn't either.
Inq. has power over damn near eveything but they know it is better to ask the SM rather than demand.
Custodes... not entirely sure but i feel they have no rank but are obeyed out of respect for their positiopn and experience.

I have to agree with Purplefood,
custodes only have power within the palace of Terra
officio assassinaorum are the hands of the high lords, they don't actually have alot of power
the mechanicus has been proved to be on equal footings to space marines, Blood Angels still have the stc for the baal predator
the ecclesairchy is proved to be unable to do anything about space marines, most chapters don't believe the Emperor is a god, you don't see the ecclesairchy doing anything about it.

Inquisitors are on a balanced footing with older chapters, they are less powerful that first founding chapters and more powerful than new founding chapters

The High Lords of Terra are above everyone as they are the voice of the Emperor.

The power to destroy a thing is the power to control a thing. Sure the Inquisition has to ask, and won't go to the mat on minor things, but if there is an outright refusal of a major request either the Inquisition or the High Lords of Terra will order it be taken care of. Thats as simple as orering the chapter to more difficult locales to "thin the herd;" to sending an assassin(s) to deal with errant commanders; ordering GK or supporting marine chapters to punish them; or declare them hereticus and watch as nearby chapters, and the IN invade their locations or obliterate their ships. You may be a big fish in a little pond but thats irrelevant when the IN/Inquisiton ships virus bomb your home world.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

Inquisitors are on a balanced footing with older chapters, they are less powerful that first founding chapters and more powerful than new founding chapters

They haven't got anywhere near the amount of political support to even be a blip in the radar against the Inquisition.

I'm sorry but from actual published fluff and the fact that first founding chapters can do what ever they want (bar turning on the Emperor) your blanket statement is very inaccurate.

But you just rebutted your own statement. Openly disobeying the Inquisition on a major item, or the High Lords IS turning on the Emperor. Lets not forget the fate fo the chapters that have opposed the Emperor. They all end up being destroyed or hiding in Hell (aka a warp storm), with their homeworlds being wiped out. The marines know this too and aren't stupid.