Explain to me how a Strike Squad Grey Knight....."sucks".

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**boreas**

GKSS should never be counted as "20pts" marines. Always "21pts" marines. That St5 on the SBs makes a difference. When moving a full squad, you're effectively reducing a MEq unit by 3 models every turn at 30". That will displease Longfangs a lot. you also have a good chance at glancing rhino-chassis if MEq are hidden inside.

I guess the thing is: people were expecting something like movie-marines or something. Now, we've got a good balanced dex. I like to call it codex: Eldar Marines. Because unlike Codex: Point-and-click (aka C: SW), you have to move your units tactically and choose if you use that psychic power or not (or which one you use). etc.

Phil

**Hulksmash**

I'm looking at an all foot/walker army as my primary GK force. Strike Squads make up the bulk of it. But maybe that's my difference. I'm looking at them as a walking force. Let's do a compare real quick w/the other primary all foot army (loganwing). We'll do 5-man comparison assuming 3x10 Strike squads and 6x5 WG squads.

5 Strikes w/Psycannon + pysbolt is 120
5 WG w/1 Termie w/Cyclone is 135

Outside of 24" the WG have the advantage w/the St8 2 Shots. However, they are likely going to be moving to secure objectives in most games right? So in theory they'll probably spend most of the game w/24" of the enemy. In the first round of CC regardless of charging WG kill 1.75 dudes.

Now from 12-24" the GK's take the prize without a doubt. 8 St5 mobile shots and 2-4 St7 Rending shots depending on movement. In CC w/out the charge GK's kill 1.08 models. At 12" GK's still have the slight advantage as they're toting St5 and can still assault after firing if they choose. All for 12.5% cheaper.

So for 15pts cheaper you have a far more efficient midfield unit. Both armies have relative fire support and supporting units that can be added. But that's my personal take on it though and it's from the perspective of a pure infantry force but I think they stack up amazingly. I also think people just trying to cram them into rhinos and shoot from the bunkers are missing the purpose but that might just be me

@Boreas

It's 22pts per marine w/the ammo. It's a 20pt upgrade for the squad. It's the reason to take full squads then combat squad.

**sourclams**

Hulksmash wrote:I'm looking at an all foot/walker army as my primary GK force. Strike Squads make up the bulk of it. But maybe that's my difference. I'm looking at them as a walking force.

This is largely how I've been viewing them as well. I'm honestly surprised at a lot of the intentions to include SRs and LRs as that seems to negate the big strengths of GK (from what I've seen) which is potent multi-role infantry and powerful support HQs. SRs and LRs cut down on model count pretty heavily.

I guess if you're relying on vehicle-mounted melta to do your anti-mech work before assaults, like 'traditional' Terminator wagons have typically done, then that's a bit different, but I really think that Vindicares and henches will fill that role in my lists (beyond psycannon toting Terms/PAGKs).

**agnosto**

Hulksmash wrote:
It's 22pts per marine w/the ammo. It's a 20pt upgrade for the squad. It's the reason to take full squads then combat squad.

They get all their cute toys AND combat tactics? Why would anyone play ultramarines anymore? That's it, I'm going to paint my UltraSmurfs some odd color so they can be whatever new MEQ cheese GW comes out with next.

/nerd rage

**winterman**

Interesting comparison with loganwing, although 24" vs 48" range is a pretty big difference, especially considering the limited ranged options in the GK dex.

I'm curious also if GKSS retained the deepstrike rule in the actual dex. That's something not mentioned in the thread. If they retain it, that is pretty nifty for a scoring, short ranged unit with S5/S7rend shooting that can have its reserve rolls manipulated to suit (either alpha strike or late game objective grabs). Also makes their cost that much more palatable.

Also agree -- I am surprised the focus has been on meched GKSS. I guess old GK players have been waiting far too long for that option to not take it.

**SMDVogrin**

agnosto wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
It's 22pts per marine w/the ammo. It's a 20pt upgrade for the squad. It's the reason to take full squads then combat squad.

They get all their cute toys AND combat tactics? Why would anyone play ultramarines anymore? That's it, I'm going to paint my UltraSmurfs some odd color so they can be whatever new MEQ cheese GW comes out with next.

/nerd rage

Combat squads /= Combat Tactics

GKs can combat squad (split a 10 man squad into 2 5-man squads on deployment), not use Combat Tactics (choose to fail morale tests).

**boreas**

Hulksmash wrote:
@Boreas

It's 22pts per marine w/the ammo. It's a 20pt upgrade for the squad. It's the reason to take full squads then combat squad.

D'oh, must learn to divide 20 by ten

Still, at 1800-2000pts, I can easily see 3 full squads of GKSS pumping 60 St5 shots at 30" (take that, fire warriors!) while I've got 2 full squads of purifiers combat-squadded: 2 -men squads moving up with the GKSS to help with CC. 2 5-men squads pumping 8-16 St7 rending shots. In the meanwhile, 2 riflemen dreads w/spybolts shoot 4 Twinlinked St8 shots each. That should severely threaten 4 Av12 vehicles per turn...

Of course, that's if I get first turn and blah blah. The thing is, this codex can compete even if it's not OTT. I'm happy it's not OTT, also. It means we're still roughly in the 5th ed. codex range and hopefully upcoming codice will keep there more of less (SW and IG being a bit more, SM and Orks and GK being a bit less).

Phil

**Deadshane1**

Therion wrote:
Please follow the thread better next time Therion.

I'm following just fine. People are pointing out how expensive and vulnerable GK armies can be and all you're doing is countering with 'then I'd have this in my army - then I'd have this - then I'd have that - then I'd do this' which is the standard of discussion you hear at GW shops from the 10 year olds at the painting table. This was apparent already on page 1 when you decided you had shooty GK that walk to middle and table mechanised armies with storm bolters.

You just keep driving around with that loaded 1000 point Stormraven while shooting with the Techmarined Vindicare and see how far that'll take you.

Lemme repeat myself, you must be in the nosebleed seats.

I never said any particular army that I would run would have everything. Only that the Grey Knight dex is a good toolbox. Also that I was responding to a post that brought up Dark Eldar, chaos, tyranid mc's, marine and eldar psychers.

No, you're not paying attention to what is being said.

I am paying attention however, and If I remove all the useless chaff from your above post, the only debate/discussion worthy thing you said was....

Therion wrote: People are pointing out how expensive and vulnerable GK armies can be.

....sure they are...and in some cases they're failing miserably by not paying attention to facts, knowing whats in the codex or actually comparing what particular units/armies out of Codex:Grey Knights can do when up against other popular units/armies.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you Therion, but Nagash dammit, if someone states how sucky Stormravens, DreadKnights, and Terminators all are....I dont have to have ALL those units in my army that I run in order to defend them.

**Grundz**

winterman wrote:
Also agree -- I am surprised the focus has been on meched GKSS. I guess old GK players have been waiting far too long for that option to not take it.

Agreed, I'm looking forward to marching up the board with a ton of S5 stormbolters and psycannons on 3+ cover or 5+ cover in the open, wound differentiated platforms, supported by outrageously cheap outflanking henchmen.

**Therion**

Let it go, bodyslamming you like this bores me.

Bodyslamming me huh? That's fresh. All I see is you changing your position every post and taking this thread more and more off topic. My guess to why someone brought up a variety of enemies is because you're supposed to be able to build a balanced force that is able to fight against all of them without any adaptation to your list. You can't cite a different unit combination to fight every possible enemy because you simply won't have them in your list in the same time -- Yes, you will have to be able to beat Stealer Shock, Green Tide, Razorspam, Mech IG, AV14 spam, DoA, Dark Eldar, Lash/Obli Chaos and whatever you come up with all with the same list. That was my problem with your post. You'll never have a Grand Master, a Librarian, a Techmarine, a Vindicare, Paladins, lots of Strike Squads, three Dreadknights, S8 Riflemans, Interceptor spam, Stormravens, Land Raiders etc in the same army. Whether you can find a good matchup for every unit in the codex is completely irrelevant if another unit counters it hard.

Now make a balanced and powerful tournament GK list to keep up with where this thread is going or get back to discussing GK Strike Squads. Additionally, please stop bodyslamming me like you've been doing. I just can't take it anymore!

**Samus_aran115**

ColdSadHungry wrote:Who's been saying they suck? All I hear is how the new GK codex is way too OP.

I think a PAGK based army will be the most competitive GK army (not thinking about henchmen here).

Yeah, this. Dunno what you're talking about OP. Everything I've seen so far is obscenely OP.

**Wulfenone**

15 ML / Rune Priests/ TWC what more can I say......

Winning !

**Hulksmash**

@Wintermann

While that range difference does matter I was basically showing that it isn't relevant since for objective missions they'd have to be on the move all game to achieve the win most of the time. Which mean that they'll spend the majority of their game w/in 24" of their opponent. It's not a GK vs. Loganwing game. It's a unit comparison on how they effectively function as an army against the current meta.

Glad other people are considering foot armies. I think they'll be the most fun and tactically exciting since they change the way the game is played.

**crimsonfist832**

This might be to late a comment to add, but ColdSadHungry they may be slightly OP but everyone could be moaning because they know they will lose against the army and not always due to 'OP' as people groan.

**Shep**

Wulfenone wrote:

15 ML / Rune Priests/ TWC what more can I say......

Winning !

Scout-shunting dreadknights... IDing TWC and laughing off missiles...

If you are going to throw a foil at grey knights... Don't try to do it with a space wolf army.

Hulksmash wrote:@Wintermann

While that range difference does matter I was basically showing that it isn't relevant since for objective missions they'd have to be on the move all game to achieve the win most of the time. Which mean that they'll spend the majority of their game w/in 24" of their opponent. It's not a GK vs. Loganwing game. It's a unit comparison on how they effectively function as an army against the current meta.

Glad other people are considering foot armies. I think they'll be the most fun and tactically exciting since they change the way the game is played.

As was asked earlier... yeah strike squads come with deep strike standard... If you aren't going to alter your force org with crowe or torquemada, and you don't want terminator troops. Then you probably need to be maximizing shooting and not CC with strike squads. they can only have one psycannon and they only have one attack... but that doesn't mean 'bad'. I do agree that if you try for a razorback build with an incinerator, then you should have gone with coteaz... and if you are trying to buff them up with falchions and quicksilver, then you should have gone with crowe.

I think 2x10 with psybolts and psycannons sounds right. Choosing to purchase some cc weapon upgrades should probably be specific to local meta. If DoA blood angels are very common, then halberds can make your units nearly unassailable. If you are facing down almost no CC at all, or horde CC primarily, then keeping them cheap and focusing on their storm bolters sounds pretty good.

Do i like crowe or coteaz better than a grand master right now? Maybe... I'd only skip crowe or coteaz if I was playing the shunt game... I'd also probably run at least one termie unit for the grand master. So I think ultimately it might not be so much that i think that they aren't "good". But that purifers, henchmen and terminators seem to come in front of them for me personally.

**rovian**

I dont know 15 hunters add 2 pf in two sqauds standard MOTW and sqaud leader for the same hurts.

**agnosto**

SMDVogrin wrote:
Combat squads /= Combat Tactics

GKs can combat squad (split a 10 man squad into 2 5-man squads on deployment), not use Combat Tactics (choose to fail morale tests).

Thanks for that. I've been in fantasy for a while now and misremembered it.

Soooo....why would anybody ever play blue marines then? I'll just strip and paint mine pink or something and play whatever cheese comes out next. No point in being fluffy when GW makes the next marine army better than the last...

**Just Dave**

agnosto wrote:
SMDVogrin wrote:
Combat squads /= Combat Tactics

GKs can combat squad (split a 10 man squad into 2 5-man squads on deployment), not use Combat Tactics (choose to fail morale tests).

Thanks for that. I've been in fantasy for a while now and misremembered it.

Soooo....why would anybody ever play blue marines then? I'll just strip and paint mine pink or something and play whatever cheese comes out next. No point in being fluffy when GW makes the next marine army better than the last...

Because you don't feel like changing to what-ever the new Codex is? Whether or not it could be more powerful?

In all seriousness, the Marines Codex is both balanced and competitive. It is typically out-classed by Blood Angels and Space Wolves, but it's still not bad by any means.

Grey Knights are highly unlikely to be superior to Space Wolves and Blood Angels IMHO and Codex Marines only slightly so if at all. Codex: Space Marines basic troop doesn't cost 20pts each and they have access to several units that the GK don't. Yes, the Codex isn't perfect, but it's not like the Codex is uncompetitive or likely to be hugely out-classed by GK. One on one a GK should be - and is - superior. When you factor in the rest of the armies however, things change significantly IMHO.

**Sephyr**

Therion wrote:All I see is you changing your position every post and taking this thread more and more off topic. My guess to why someone brought up a variety of enemies is because you're supposed to be able to build a balanced force that is able to fight against all of them without any adaptation to your list

Emm, no. What I've seen is blanket assertions ("Stormravens suck, who's take them?" and "PAGKs are lame, and so expensive you can't do anything with them!") being disproven.

Yes, you can't fit the entire unit rosted in a 1500-200 list No ne ever implied that. But you can likely fit more than enough to require a very tailored army to fight you.

It's really not that complicated to fit two rifleman dreads with psy ammo, two squads of psy ammo 2xpsycannon troops, a Dreadknight, a librarian HQ and a Stormraven with assault troops within a 1500 list, especially if you don't bother with rhinos/razorbacks, as GKs have some interesting movement options.

Then again, I play CSM and I'm sort of used to pay for pricey units with extra abilitirs/stats that can be used for effect. And I think this is the case with GK, only more. I mean, show me any other unit that can pump 20 S5 shots at 30', insta-nuke a charging Tervigon in CC and/or chopping up TeQs with power weapons? It's like a cross between fire warriors, Wailing Banshees, and some new mass-force weapon squad hitherto unseen. Are they going to be A+ at all of them? Nope, but they are still quite good for their price. I'm still figuring out how to assualt them out of a raider, since with their range I likely can't get close enough to diesmbark troops into assault range without taking a dozen s5 hits and a few rending s7 rounds on my AV10 open-topped pleasure barge. Maybe jumping over a LOS-blocking piece of scenery? I'll figure it out.

**Grundz**

Shep wrote:

Scout-shunting dreadknights... IDing TWC and laughing off missiles...

If you are going to throw a foil at grey knights... Don't try to do it with a space wolf army.

first, replying to people that hop into these threads to troll because dakka moderation is lacking is a losing effort.

But there's actually /alot/ you can do against "counters"
psycho-choke grenades are mega awesome, rad grenades are awesome, psi powers that make units assault through terrain pretty much negate any unit that doesn't have grenades, most back end shooting squads will get picked apart by interceptors very easily.

Hordes can be mowed down by cheap henchmen with rending jokaro stormbolters or hot shot lasguns

There are alot of tools, like what was said, in the codex. I feel that mech can be overcome, it wont be easy, but its doable.

**Mannahnin**

Grundz wrote:
Shep wrote:

Scout-shunting dreadknights... IDing TWC and laughing off missiles...

If you are going to throw a foil at grey knights... Don't try to do it with a space wolf army.

first, replying to people that hop into these threads to troll because dakka moderation is lacking is a losing effort.

You want us to police for people writing bad tactical advice? Please don't be silly.

It took Shep four sentence fragments to respond to that argument, to the edification of onlookers. If a post (especially one made sincerely, which can be difficult to judge) offers bad advice, that should always be seen as a springboard for a better/educational response. The solution to bad advice is good advice. Not shutting down the bad advice. Especially when what constitutes good or bad advice can vary a bit depending on one's local play environment.

**Grundz**

Mannahnin wrote:
You want us to police for people writing bad tactical advice? Please don't be silly.

No, I want you to police crap like:

Wulfenone wrote:

15 ML / Rune Priests/ TWC what more can I say......

Winning !

**Pyriel-**

1: Stormravens=weak. What game are you playing when a dreadnought and 6 Force Weapon terminators in a complex squad are charging you from a vehicle that just had a 3+ Flat out cover save,l spat out enough firepower to open any vehicle in the game, pepper the unit it's charging with str4 then kill the crap out of it with Str5 Power/Force Weapons..possibly at initiative 10 with Grenades. Yea...that sucks....bad, I mean, wtf is that going to hurt. Might as well be running Ogryns. Duh. (Plus, have you read what this unit can do to YOUR psychic defense? I didnt think so)

2. Read the Dex. Psychic Communion. Know what you're talking about.

3. Better saves than a 2+/5++ in the Nid and Chaos Codex for MC's? Where pray tell? You right, poison is awesome against armour 2+. Meanwhile, while you're trying to drag down these 2+ save monsters with poison (you got one turn to do it by the way....they're faster than your DE) The rest of the army is knocking you out of the sky with basic infantry weapons. You know, the basic infantry that you're probably REALLY shooting at? B/C of the 3+ armour save and actual chance to kill something? You do know that the Grey Knight dex is pretty much OVERLOADED with stuff that kills DE right? Pick a good matchup next time. DE are anything but the rock to the Grey Knight scissors. Yea, DE just KILL GK's, cept for the fact they get bent over the fence with psychic powers the whole game....whats that? You can make me make a ld check or a guy out of each squad dies? GL getting to me and forcing me to make a ld 10 check. Meanwhile...I'll be shooting you out of the sky. (and I actually PLAY DE!)

4. Interceptors go down as easy to shooting as Grey Hunters. Wow, there's a news flash. Obvious much? More obvious for you, they're shootier by huge amounts, they come with some of the best HtH weapons in the game, and they're the fastest troopers in the game...without the aid of a transport. Yes, they're more expensive than Grey Hunters. I know its a big surprise to you, its this thing called "game balance".

5. 30, 36, or shunt + 24" ranges actually. Assault Weapons? I'd say that its pretty hard to stay away from that when you can command the middle of the playing feild with foottroopers w/o fear.

6.Again, read the codex, know what you're talking about. It's easier to appear smart that way. Psychic power-Summoning. Allows your Libby to teleport a unit (including certain vehicles) to within 6" of him. Oh "looky looky", Libbys can get Teleport Homers as standard equiptment. You think that might be useful? Hmmmm?

7: Bring your psychic hood....maybe you'll get lucky and stop half of my psychic powers...you know everything I have on the board casts them right? Oh, you brought a libby to hood my stuff? Lets see if the points you spent get you any psychic powers of your own. Probably not, considering MY psychic hood and Aegis. You see....Grey Knights RULE the psychic phase in this game. They're designed that way. Unfortunatly, you cannot hood my psybolts, psycannon, power weapons, shunts and all the other little toys that I've got.

....oh, wait a minute, nevermind. My Vindicare (buried behind my troops with a 2+ cover save that you can get if you look at the dex closely enough) Just picked out your offending psychic defence and killed him. He's lucky my Culuxes or shunting Dreadknight (owaitaminute they suck) got to him first.

No IC's worth a damn...tell that to the horde of Draigo Fans out there. Whatever he hits, he destroys. Even Rocky knows that. Meanwhile, who needs a named IC when I can bring a Generic....

WS-6
BS-6
Str-4
T-4
W-3
I-5
A-3
Ld-10
Sv-2+/4++

Who has a Str 5 force weapon in combat, (he's a level 2 you know) A Range 24" Str7 4 shot rending weapon at range, has a 2+ Invuln in close combat that doesnt go away after rolling a '1', Lowers your T by 1 when he charges you (after getting out of my Stormraven that you think sucks) and rr's one dice to hit and one dice to wound. He can't be bargained with, he can't be reasoned with. He'll find your IC, it's what he does, it's ALL he does! He'll find Mephiston/Dante/Ghazkull/whoever and rip his friggin' heart out!

...oh btw, he also makes d3 of my units scout, take objectives like troops, or RR all 1's to wound. HELL! Why bring 1 when you can bring 2 at twice the price? You're named IC's can't do that.

I've said it b4, I'll say it again, read the codex. Know what you're talking about.

1: Yes weak. If you put 800p worth of units in the trust of an AV12 vehicle and get away with that maybe you should try a little more quality opponents.
15p eldar runes or a 100p space pup libby will ruin your shrouded 800p stormchicken badly as will dark eldar shooting now since said flying chicken doesnt even get the BA S8 missiles anymore.

2: That´s basically another 150-250 points depending on wargear meaning if you add a libby for that chicken shrouding you´ll end up at 300-500p in HQ alone. Nice done in an already expensive GK army, now you have a communion HQ, a shrouding HQ, a stormraven full of stuff aaand, hmm, what else? lol

3: Agonizers care not for T6 and you cant shoot any dark eldar infantry since I am yet to see any builds without 9 banana boats that outrange your psycannons, you know the ones you need a grandmaster and a libby for 300-500p just to be able to land close to the boats, in enough numbers and protected to kill some transports with and then pray you can wither the rest.

4: Guess if you think a one attack, 3+ save 26 point non scoring (unless you pump another 150-250 points into the buiold) guy is good then good day to you.

5: Oh the massively outnumbered ones that go down in drowes to long range mech and longfang fire. Right you need libbies and communion HQs to mend that problem. Dunno bout you but I dont play with a thousand point advantage to be able to fit in all those things in my list besides the 600-800p fragile flying chickens and that magical counter to the all to common eldar 15p runes wargear.
I guess you could take a 280p interceptor squad and go hopping against eldrad who sits in his holo serpent but then again dont expect to win.

6: You sure are not doing a good job at that

first of all that libby needs to be in the right place before he can start summoning up that vehicle. No w wonder how many points that takes to ensure he is safely teleported in amongst the enemy lines and protected too before he can summon that landraider...
Now of you go and try be intelligent and ponder on that for a while while I laugh.

That 2++ vindicare needs terrain , a techmarine and a libby nearby so he´s no longer that "cheap" is he.
Besides is this the same libby that is deepstruck somewhere at the front busy summoning vehicles or is it the libby that is busy shrouding the flying chicken.
Wait, you get special discount on your libbies, you get three for the price of a half?
lol
What a joke.

7: Gee, I cant hood a psycannon shot, what a deep insight, what else is new, water being wet? *yawn*

(after getting out of my Stormraven that you think sucks)

Geezus. Was it the one shrouded by that omnipotent libby (and techmarine) that also summoned the communed troops to kill eldar boats or was it the one giving your cheap-O vindicare that 2+ save and doing it all despite being forced to Ld on 3D6 due to a 15p wargear? I dont remember, help me out some here

I give you points for at least having the decency of not trying to force feed people into believeing S5 stormbolters are worth taking on PAGKs or that the psilencer is a good choice.

Thanks for the laughs.
Looking forward to your next funny rant.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Pyriel- wrote:
I give you points for at least having the decency of not trying to force feed people into believeing S5 stormbolters are worth taking on PAGKs or that the psilencer is a good choice.

Unlike you, who have been going crazy "force feeding" this view onto people in at least three threads? I liked the part where you raged against the librarian being everywhere at the same time while your long fangs backed up by raiders killed everything... Guess what? Eldrad's Wave Serpent doesn't like getting shot at by TL Missilecannon dreadnoughts. Both Interceptor Squads and Dreadknights can get first turn charges with Grand Strategy. A scout-moved rhino or razorback can deploy psycannons in range of your precious "banana boats". Can you PLEASE stop the "GK sucks, I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong!" bullcrap? It's getting really annoying. We get it, you don't think the new Codex is that competitive, can you cut down on the vitriol?

**Mannahnin**

Keep it cool, Swedes. Speaking as a person of Swedish descent, I would rather everyone regard you guys as paragons of Nordic composure and courtesy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grundz wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:You want us to police for people writing bad tactical advice? Please don't be silly.

No, I want you to police crap like:

Wulfenone wrote: 15 ML / Rune Priests/ TWC what more can I say......

It was a succinct and effective response to Samus_Aran's comment about thinking everything in the GK book is overpowered. When you put the GK stuff side by side with those three units from SW, it does throw one's review of how "broken" the GK actually are into rather sharp contrast.

But don't let me stop you from backseat Modding. Please, tell me more about how I can do my job better.

No, but seriously, we do appreciate feedback. I just think you're mistaken in this case. If you see other posts you think are violating Dakka rules/attempts to troll, please don't hesitate to hit the Alert Mod button on them. I do think it'd be a mistake to write it off as "dakka moderation is lacking" if we don't agree with you in every case, or take the exact action you think should be taken at any given moment. We certainly do make mistakes and miss stuff sometimes. The best way to help out with that is to use that Alert Moderator button and explain why you think the post is a problem in the little comment field.

Thanks!

**Kommissar Kel**

Mannahnin wrote:But don't let me stop you from backseat Modding. Please, tell me more about how I can do my job better.

OOO,OOO Free ice-cream Day!

I have no idea how you would get it to us but that would certainly make most posters feel you are doing your job better!

**Mannahnin**

I just snacked on half a pint of Stonyfield's "Gotta Have Java" organic coffee ice cream. If I could give everyone here (except the lactose-intolerant) a pint of that heavenly stuff, I would.

**Manimal**

I think the 110 point 5 man 1 psycannon strike unit has a place as a cheap scoring unit to hold in reserve.

@Mannahnin
Mmmm coffee ice cream is the best.

As far as IC's go, I certainly think the 100 point make henchman troops SC is good.

**Pyriel-**

Unlike you, who have been going crazy "force feeding" this view onto people in at least three threads? I liked the part where you raged against the librarian being everywhere at the same time while your long fangs backed up by raiders killed everything... Guess what? Eldrad's Wave Serpent doesn't like getting shot at by TL Missilecannon dreadnoughts.

Guess what:
Its really hard to down a holofield eldar skimmer, even if you get past the 4+ cover save. Good luck wasting dreadnought fire on it the whole game.
As for the other thread I give pretty detailed arguments to back my "opinion", how ´bout you?

Can you PLEASE stop the "GK sucks, I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong!" bullcrap? It's getting really annoying. We get it, you don't think the new Codex is that competitive, can you cut down on the vitriol?

Rally?
I´m just using the same "tone" like Deadshane1, he was condescending to me so I gave him his own medicine back. You cant take it then dont dish it out.
The funny thing is his ramblings and force feedings you have no problems with apparently, just mine.
hmm, oh here it is:

I agree with everything you said

Gee I wonder why one guys vitriol is ok while another´s is not.
Go be a hypocrite to someone else please.

Keep it cool, Swedes. Speaking as a person of Swedish descent, I would rather everyone regard you guys as paragons of Nordic composure and courtesy.

Will try to, just have the habit of giving back what I get and what I least of all like is hypocricy.
Otherwise we Swedes tend to be a withdrawn and shy bunch...believe it or not

I just snacked on half a pint of Stonyfield's "Gotta Have Java" organic coffee ice cream.

What...is...that? Coffe ice cream being my favorite (in bucket sized containers) me wonder if we have it over here too, hmm.

**Mannahnin**

Deadshane can get a bit over the top, certainly. He's a nice guy, but goes overboard some. Definitely hit "Alert Moderator" if you see him get rude in a post.

Stonyfield is an organic yogurt/dairy company here in New Hampshire. Their admin office is in my city and their main plant in the next town over. They're available nationally here, but Google is failing me in an attempt to find them in Sweden. Sorry. :(