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If your not planning on ever playing any tourneys, don't sweat it. They will be easier to sell later.

No shame in playing with greys, my problem is a bit different, I spend alot of time on every model and as such it has taken me alot of time to get my army done and as such I have played alot of games and tourneys with a majority of the models primed. I must agree on the dipping though, it could make it pretty acceptable for most since it gives contrast to the minis.

I'd say don't give up though, get some minis that are relatively easy to paint (I am looking at you, Tactical SM Squad!) and get to them occassionally. Sit down with your friends when they are painting and practice, as long as they are not lasholes that mocks your every move (if that is the case, I think I have found the problem...) they probably have alot of tips, since they started out on the same page as you. Just plain-painting and using washes works out nice too for that matter.

Just pick a couple of hours any evening of the week and just paint, as well. Have some throw away minis (again, tacticals) and just go to town on them, doesn't matter if it turns out ugly, if you keep at it your hand will get used to the tension and loosen up. How do I know this? Well, I had the same trouble with my own hands, but just doing nothing will do nothing to make anything better. When I started out it was just blobs of paint, truly ugly to lay eyes upon. A couple of years of just painting and not giving a crud as to how it turned out helped my hands steady and I started my Orks making decent Boyz. Nowadays, several years later, I win painting comps and my friends ask me for painting advice. Just don't commit a crime against yourself and stop it completely because people are giving you crud for it, keep at it and have patience and you might be painting real good one day.

Will be interested to see what kind of results the OP gets if he goes the dipping route!

Polonius wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:The ulgy truth is, everybody can paint very fine with training. Some need more than other, some will never reach Golden Demon style, everybody can reach ,,very fine".

There are some people without the fine motor control to physically hold/control a paintbrush. They're going to be a pretty tiny minority though.

Yeah, Stephen Hawking might have problems. People with Parkinson's might have issues. Most people can learn the motor control though. There are techniques that allow you to remove the shake from your hands, and other techniques (dry brushing, dipping) that don't require a great deal of motor control at all. The real key to improvement is simply to never stop trying, and do it until you're happy with it. Painting 100 marines is excellent practice, and when you're done, you've got a company of marines.

Eyesight is more likely to be a problem than motor control I would have thought.

Yeah, if you're playing Ultramarines just spray them blue touch some color on details/weapons and then dip them. Workable tabletop quality in little time and with no skill needed.

I'm more a gamer and only a hobbyist in that I want to field painted armies for myself. My opinion on playing unpainted armies, whoopdidoo; no problem, it's a game. I play about twice a month and could care less what my opponent's army looks like as long as he/she's a decent person and wants to have some fun.

Don't let HAAC people try to tell you how to enjoy your property; tell them when they start buying your minis for you, they can tell you what to do with them.

Bottom line. It's a hobby when you're at home doing "hobby" work. It's a game the second you start putting terrain on the table; keep your hobby away from my game table.

/2 cents

Howard A Treesong wrote:Eyesight is more likely to be a problem than motor control I would have thought.

for top quality work, sure. For a rudimentary table-top painted miniature, you need to be able to see things roughly the size of SM shoulderpads.

Personally I know quite a few people you just don't have the time to learn how to paint or be able to paint a whole lot at a time. I have a friend in my home town that it take him 4 months to paint one model due to work, kids and time restrictions.

Alastergrimm wrote:Personally I know quite a few people you just don't have the time to learn how to paint or be able to paint a whole lot at a time. I have a friend in my home town that it take him 4 months to paint one model due to work, kids and time restrictions.

I obviously know what you mean, but allow me to ask a few rhetorical questions:

Does this person spend every minute of his free time painting? Meaning, in that four months, he did not watch a TV show, go to a movie, go out with friends, engage in a hobby, talk on the phone, read a book, etc.?

If the answer is no, which it assuredly is, then he's still choosing not to paint. Yes, some people have far more free time, and others have far less. But everybody has some, and while I completely understand and agree with prioritizing painting less than anything else, let's not pretend that he literally does not have the time to paint more than a single model.

I'm kind of a slow painter, so some parts of my army are still not painted, but every game there will be a hand full of orks with more paint on them than before.

Something I don't get is the "at least primed" attitude. In my oppinion grey/silver minis look WAY better than ones primed black. On an unprimed mini you can still see its armor details, its weapons, some gear and its face. When looking at a black coated model you see something black holding something else that's black too. I will only ever prime my units when I start painting them, and then first priority is to make all the important details visible again before actually caring about anything else.

Jidmah wrote:I'm kind of a slow painter, so some parts of my army are still not painted, but every game there will be a hand full of orks with more paint on them than before.

Something I don't get is the "at least primed" attitude. In my oppinion grey/silver minis look WAY better than ones primed black. On an unprimed mini you can still see its armor details, its weapons, some gear and its face. When looking at a black coated model you see something black holding something else that's black too. I will only ever prime my units when I start painting them, and then first priority is to make all the important details visible again before actually caring about anything else.

I quite agree with this, and also don't understand the attitude.

I suppose that it is true you can prime a color other than black. But I have to say that I much prefer my unpainted grey/silver models to the ones I have bought that were only primed black.

Well, in his defense, he is REALLY detail, I am talking about the type of guys that details rocks on the base of the model. I can say, that he does spend a Large Chunk of his spare time on painting, what little time he has. The man does work something like 70 hours a week and still finds a little time for his kids. I agreed He could CHOOSE to paint over his kids, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would do that. I mean there are limits one should keep with their hobbies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is Alastergrimm btw, My wife left her account on.

I don't really have a huge problem with playing against gray armies, but perhaps if you don't want to paint the models or figure out a way to have them painted, Warhams isn't the hobby for you.

I started 40K just over a year ago. When I started I made it perfectly clear to the others (who were encouraging me to play) that I had no intention of painting my models. I'm a gamer, I said if I hear any complaints about unpainted models I walk.

So, 12 months later I have built up around 4000pts of Orks plus some Space Wolves and Necrons with around 90% of my armies painted, maybe 20% of the painted models need finishing off, eg. bases & wash. I'm not saying they are well painted, just painted.

But considering my words 12 months ago I would never have a problem with anyone playing with unpainted models.

Not meant to push you or anything, if you really don't want to paint then that is your choice.
It's a game of little plastic/metal soldiers after all, so noone can judge someone.
If you however want to try to paint, you can open a modelling blog and a lot of friendly people will give you good advice.
I think most of us went through a period where poeple laughed at their models/ painting skills.

lucasbuffalo wrote:

ph34r wrote:You know that nobody starts out good at painting, right?

It's not a valid excuse to say "oh no, i'm not talented enough to paint my first model and have it win a golden daemon"

You aren't a bad person for not painting your army, you are just really lazy. Stop making excuses.

If you don't want to mess up your army, get a handful of models and practice.

Gornall wrote:
Seriously though... not painting is a conscious decision... no one has a genetic predisposition for painting skill. If you don't want to paint because you are busy or would rather play games than paint, that's fine (and not lazy). However... saying "I want to paint but I'm no good so I'm not going to try" IS lazy.

I disagree. I have been working on my SW for over 7 months. It's really bad.
Just because you have the ability to paint nicely doesn't mean other people are capable of it.
I cannot physically do it. My hands shake a lot when I concentrate hard and I ruin my models more than I paint them.
I keep working at it, hoping that I can improve, but I haven't yet.
I'm not lazy, I'm not making excuses.
There's no reason to be rude.

My friend has a similar issue where he has a tic and can not keep his hands steady to paint.

OP, I think you are right with what you are saying. It is your decision and you should not feel pressured to paint. Some people have a disproportionate skill vs standard and for them painting is not worth it. If you pay the hight prices for the pieces and you think they look better gray than if you painted them, that's fine with me.

You ever think of having other people paint them for you in exchange for the rides and small favors you seem to be doing them? If it is the same person consistently you could ask them to paint your models in exchange for the rides, you could maybe buy him lunch wile you guys are gaming ect. That's what I have worked out with my friend. Just something to think about.

Need some kind of gray pride or something to make this feel less frowned on.
I will propose some kind of Gray pride parade at my local GW. (like armies on parade)

Dark Scipio wrote:
There are some people without the fine motor control to physically hold/control a paintbrush. They're going to be a pretty tiny minority though.

One of two guys that sculpts all of the LotR miniatures only has one hand.

Seriously, one hand.

He seems to do ok.

This reminds me of the Drawing I class I took in college. We were asked to draw a person who posed for us. Half the class drew stick figure people. They didn't even try. Seriously, they drew a single line for a leg. I laughed my ass off at their attempts because they were being lazy. Seriously, right now look down at your thumb and then at the backslash key on your keyboard. Do you seriously see any resemblance at all?!

If you have a limited amount of time to put together models and play the game, then I understand. I usually don't have enough time for all aspects of the hobby myself, but I would rather paint than play the game. However it takes so skill to paint a mini. For example, if you are playing blood angels, spray paint them white, base coat in blood red and then give them a black wash. Some people want a Golden Demon army and get depressed when they can't get nowhere near that quality. So it is either all or nothing for them. They choose to not even paint the mini for fear of some ass saying their horrible paintjob looks horrible.

When I first got into the hobby, I bought some genestealers off a guy. I stripped all the paint off of them except for one. I kept it because at that time I thought it looked awesome. I wanted to keep it as a "marker" of sorts. When I repainted the stealers I thought they looked even better than before. Looking back at the model now, I think it looks horrible. I think the ones that I repainted look horrible as well. The ones I am painting this week, will look horrible eventually, because I feel like I am getting better with each mini that I paint.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:
There are some people without the fine motor control to physically hold/control a paintbrush. They're going to be a pretty tiny minority though.

One of two guys that sculpts all of the LotR miniatures only has one hand.

Seriously, one hand.

He seems to do ok.

There is a huge difference between having on hand that you can fully control (plus a fully useful stump) and having poor neurological control over two hands. One fully useful hand is still useful.

It's the same reason a person with a prosthetic leg might be able to run, while a person with Deep Vein Thrombosis can't.

mugginns wrote:I don't really have a huge problem with playing against gray armies, but perhaps if you don't want to paint the models or figure out a way to have them painted, Warhams isn't the hobby for you.

I'm seriously glad you aren't at my gaming store, because if you said I shouldn't play a game like 40k because I can't find the time and motivation to paint my "little plastic soldiers" as others have called them, I would probably be tempted to punch you in the face.

Part of the reason I don't paint is because of lack of skill. It's not really that I have a lot of trouble painting (I do sometimes but not entirely). My problem is my lack of vision for color and that's something I've lived with all my life. To me a color scheme can sound great but I can't really picture it in my head and when I put it on a squad it winds up looking terrible.

It takes me roughly two hours to paint a single Space Wolf. Full time job, child and wife, and full time college. It's all I can do to squeeze in a few games a week and build terrain (since no one else I play with will).

I think from here on out I will just be leaving things grey. The time investment isn't worth it to me. In the time I paint one marine I could have built 2-3 pieces of terrain - sure they may not be painted either but at some point the talented painter in our group is going to have to do it. Or I could've watched a movie or gotten the tar beat out of me by my two year old. I could do some homework - but I'd probably paint before I did that.

Khisanth Magus wrote:

mugginns wrote:I don't really have a huge problem with playing against gray armies, but perhaps if you don't want to paint the models or figure out a way to have them painted, Warhams isn't the hobby for you.

I'm seriously glad you aren't at my gaming store, because if you said I shouldn't play a game like 40k because I can't find the time and motivation to paint my "little plastic soldiers" as others have called them, I would probably be tempted to punch you in the face.

One of these days, I'm going to play the Dakka drinking game, where I take a drink everytime somebody mentions phsyical violence.

I'll be blitzed before noon, methinks.

If you never painted at all after having them for a few years, I might say something but it wouldn't stop the game.

If all else fails, save up and get your models bulk commissioned for cheap.

juraigamer wrote:If you never painted at all after having them for a few years, I might say something but it wouldn't stop the game.

If all else fails, save up and get your models bulk commissioned for cheap.

That's the direction I think I am going to take. I have two solid armies now (about 3500 points total) and started playing in September. My Necrons can rot for all I care right now but I do have an unemployed brother who is an excellent painter. I'm sure $3-4 per guy would sound pretty reasonable to him.

I'm drunk All the time, fancy a fight ?

AlannahGrimm wrote:Well, in his defense, he is REALLY detail, I am talking about the type of guys that details rocks on the base of the model. I can say, that he does spend a Large Chunk of his spare time on painting, what little time he has. The man does work something like 70 hours a week and still finds a little time for his kids. I agreed He could CHOOSE to paint over his kids, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would do that. I mean there are limits one should keep with their hobbies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is Alastergrimm btw, My wife left her account on.

You shouldn't be painting over your kids. You should always strip and prime your kids before painting.

Lonecoon wrote:

AlannahGrimm wrote:Well, in his defense, he is REALLY detail, I am talking about the type of guys that details rocks on the base of the model. I can say, that he does spend a Large Chunk of his spare time on painting, what little time he has. The man does work something like 70 hours a week and still finds a little time for his kids. I agreed He could CHOOSE to paint over his kids, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would do that. I mean there are limits one should keep with their hobbies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is Alastergrimm btw, My wife left her account on.

You shouldn't be painting over your kids. You should always strip and prime your kids before painting.

Eh. They tend to cry when you prime them and strip them. But they think the brush tickles so it's easier to deal with then screaming kids.

Polonius wrote:

One of these days, I'm going to play the Dakka drinking game, where I take a drink everytime somebody mentions phsyical violence.

It was nice knowing you!

Khisanth Magus wrote:

mugginns wrote:I don't really have a huge problem with playing against gray armies, but perhaps if you don't want to paint the models or figure out a way to have them painted, Warhams isn't the hobby for you.

I'm seriously glad you aren't at my gaming store, because if you said I shouldn't play a game like 40k because I can't find the time and motivation to paint my "little plastic soldiers" as others have called them, I would probably be tempted to punch you in the face.

I'm glad you aren't at my gaming store, you seem really immature

In the end this is a hobby. Not painting any of your models ever (or having them painted, or even just making a stab at basecoating everything) means anybody who ever plays you (note: if you're painting slowly, you're still painting!) is not seeing the battlefield how they want to see it.

Platuan4th wrote:

Polonius wrote:

One of these days, I'm going to play the Dakka drinking game, where I take a drink everytime somebody mentions phsyical violence.

It was nice knowing you!

Polish/Irish/German stock + Frat in undergrad + law school = pretty decent tolerance. If nothing else, I pass out long before I'd die.