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A marine firing a missile launcher and a land raider firing a Hunter killer Missile are both Normal even though one is limited to once per game.

This is the same as "Turbo boosting" and "shunting"

If "Turbo boosting" can be used in the scout move then so can "shunting"

Brother Ramses wrote:The point being is that the term,

"instead of moving.."

is the stickler. It removes the shunt from whatever the game deems as moving. It is shunting, not moving.

the shunt rules themselves STATE it is a a move. So, it IS a move.

Don - it is something I can normally do once per game. "normally" is entirely as broad as that.

That I am aware of, GW has never specificed what a "normal" move is, so that argument doesn't have much merit. Also, that turbo-boosting and popping smoke can happen in the Scout move pretty much should eliminate doubt on this!

I have to agree with the You can Shunt while scouting.

Since shunting is something they can normally do once per game.

DeathReaper wrote:I have to agree with the You can Shunt while scouting.

Since shunting is something they can normally do once per game.

SO?

There is more than enough precedent for allowing this scout shunt to work, until an faq rolls around, it works.

Hide your models, hide your vehciles, hide your IC's cause the dreadknights be first turn assaulting everyone up in this battle

em_en_oh_pee wrote:That I am aware of, GW has never specificed what a "normal" move is, so that argument doesn't have much merit. Also, that turbo-boosting and popping smoke can happen in the Scout move pretty much should eliminate doubt on this!

I think its pretty obvious what "normal" movement is according to GW: anything outlined in the BRB. Anything outlined in the BRB would be considered normal because it is allowed and uniform across all codices. That is why turboboosting and smoke launchers are allowed when scouting. They are both outlined in the BRB and are thus "normal".

Shunting is as non-normal as you can get. I'd be willing to bet they rule that way in a FAQ as well.

Please tell me dreadknights do not have scout or infiltrate? Matt Ward is probably loving this thread

DKs can get scout through Grand Strategy which basically all GK HQs have.

Am I drunk? Why are there two threads by two people arguing the same thing with the exact same void arguments?

Obifett - so your argument is that the SPecial rule "Turboboost" is normal, just because it appears in the rulebook?

Lol

Seriously. Special rules exist in the brb same as they exist in codexes.

Nos-
Then how would you define "normal" movement? And what would be considered "non-normal" movement?

I can at least define the two and give examples of both.

You are classifying all movement as normal. If that was the case, why would the scout rules specifically only allow normal movement? If all movement was normal, specifying only normal movement is allowed for scouting it would be unnecessary and redundant.





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Jidmah wrote:Am I drunk? Why are there two threads by two people arguing the same thing with the exact same void arguments?

This one was created first. No idea why the second one exists.

And yes, its like the same arguments in both. A little silly.

ObiFett wrote:Except that the rules for scout moves say you can only use normal moves. Shunting is not a normal move.

They don't say that. Go read it again, and don't forget reading the last sentence of the rule again.

Obifett - in the same way GW do- if your unit can normally move, that is NORMAL movement for you

Very simple, really

Then what would be a "non-normal" movement? Can you give an example?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Obifett - in the same way GW do- if your unit can normally move, that is NORMAL movement for you

Very simple, really

So what does GW say about doing something instead of moving?

To follow the rules as written. Go back to you own thread instead of ignoring the answers there.

Shunt states it is a move, debating otherwise is simply in error.

I would never have read turboboosting as anything but normal, as it is in the normal movement section as an option for movement.

Shunt, I would not have read normal for as it does say instead of moving.

Oddly it says to move instead of moving, so I get both sides.

So what is NOT a normal move? Why write it like that? What is prevented that I am missing?

There is no differentiation between special and normal moves.

The "normal move" mentioned in the scout rule is explained in the following sentence, which ObiFett as well as Brother Ramses are greatfully ignoring, and inventing "special moves" instead.

Jidmah wrote:The "normal move" mentioned in the scout rule is explained in the following sentence, which ObiFett as well as Brother Ramses are greatfully ignoring, and inventing "special moves" instead.

Except that "special" part is not exactly invented.

If some moves are "normal" there needs to be another catagory, otherwise that just does not make sense.

Editing to add:
"This is done exactly as in their Movement phase. . ." does not exactly explain things.
Even if you assume it means "They can do anything they can do in the Movement phase" (which does not seem to be exactly true) it makes ME wonder what would be the need to add the word "normal".

Despite the lack of techincal writing, adding arbitrary words to sentences DOES change their meaning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I am not really trying to say it cannot be done.

It does seem that GW leans towards 'normal' being errated FAQ'd out of that sentence.

I have only read what is posted and am more wondering about the 3 questions I ended my initial response with.

Jidmah wrote:To follow the rules as written. Go back to you own thread instead of ignoring the answers there.

I didn't start either of the threads so not sure what you mean by my thread.

I find it funny that ignoring completely that a teleport shunt is done instead of moving still makes you think it is moving. If the rule simply mentioned that the teleport shunt was "in addition" or "as well" or even "also" you would have something to stand on. The fact that it tells you "instead" creates an ability outside of movement called a teleport shunt.

kirsanth wrote:
I have only read what is posted and am more wondering about the 3 questions I ended my initial response with.

That is exactly what I am wondering as well. What would be a "non-normal" move? If all movement is normal, why would they put that in the scout movement description? What would be disallowed by that rule?

Those questions can be basically boiled down to: What is normal movement? What is non-normal movement? Please give examples of both.

kirsanth wrote:

Jidmah wrote:The "normal move" mentioned in the scout rule is explained in the following sentence, which ObiFett as well as Brother Ramses are greatfully ignoring, and inventing "special moves" instead.

Except that "special" part is not exactly invented.

If some moves are "normal" there needs to be another catagory, otherwise that just does not make sense.

Editing to add:
"This is done exactly as in their Movement phase. . ." does not exactly explain things.
Even if you assume it means "They can do anything they can do in the Movement phase" (which does not seem to be exactly true) it makes ME wonder what would be the need to add the word "normal".

Despite the lack of techincal writing, adding arbitrary words to sentences DOES change their meaning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I am not really trying to say it cannot be done.

It does seem that GW leans towards 'normal' being errated FAQ'd out of that sentence.

I have only read what is posted and am more wondering about the 3 questions I ended my initial response with.

Normal is only used to describe that you move as stated in the movement phase, as opposed to moving while assaulting, falling back, running or piling in.

Brother Ramses: Shunt rules tells you it is movement three times, please stop reposting your lies.

so pretty much this means a forward deployment against GK. it seems as if they MUST move the full 30" so let them shunt then die by running into my crap.

Hahahahah!

Instead of moving what do you do? Shunt.

What does Shunt consist of? All the little "move" quotes you listed.

Scout moves allow you to make a normal move.

What did you do instead of making a normal move? You Shunted.

Do all the little move quotes that make up a Shunt qualify it to be used during a Scout move? No because you did not make a normal move to qualify for the Scout move, you Shunted.

Needs an FAQ. Until it is FAQed, I'm going to assume that GW intends it to be doable with Scout moves.

Brother Ramses wrote:Instead of moving what do you do? Shunt.

Shunt is moving via teleporter shunt. (RAW GK codex pg. 28)

Making a normal move is done exactly as moving in your movement phase. (RAW BRB pg. 76)

Once per game a unit may elect to make a teleport shunt instead of moving. (RAW GK codex pg. 28)

There is no rule in either BRB or the GK codex disallowing Shunt instead of moving during a movement phase. (RAW BRB and GK Codex)

There also is no rule stating that a normal move must not be replaced by something or that it is limited to any type of movement, except for the limitation due to scouting. (RAW BRB)

Thus, shunt is allowed instead of any move that is done exactly as moving in your movement phase. Otherwise, shunt would never be allowed.

BR - shunting is still a "move". it tells you that *3* times.

You can pretend it isnt a move, despite being shown about 10 times that that simply isnt true. Its not exactly convincing, however.

Jidmah wrote:Making a normal move is done exactly as moving in your movement phase. (RAW BRB pg. 76)

This is not precisely what it states.

It tells you to make a normal move exactly like in the Movement phase.

Which is different than saying making a normal move is exactly like moving in the Movement phase.

Uhm, care to explain why? And give a (non-shunt) example for the difference?