TLOS and twin weapons

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**Norade**

Jidmah wrote:It still has two mountings, two barrels. Just because it is inside an armored turrent, does not make it cease to exist. If one of the barrels is not able to see target, it should get cover(though highly unlikely to happen on both warhound and baneblade). Also the discussion only realy matters to weapons at least an inch apart, or guns pressed into a wall to exploit the "picking" rule.

Note that you are not checking whether you have LoS or not, but if the shot "is blocked by terrain or models"(BRB pg. 58). "The shot" is fired by all barrels at the same time, so if any of the barrels sight gets blocked by terrain, the shot was blocked, and the target unit would recieve cover.

Provide a rules quote for the book asking you to measure from more than one barrel or more than one mounting for any weapon. Oh, you can't do it, then it's not a rule.

**btemple0**

A weapon "mount" is how the weapon is affixed to a vehicle, therefore it does not matter how many barrels are on weapon system itself. Two seperately mounted weapons would also be independent of each other, which on the TLAC, Vulcan Mega-Bolter, TLLC, and so on, are not independent of themselves, and if I recall correctly, there is a little sensor camera dead center on the weapon itself, indicating from where LOS should be drawn. There is no picking of barrel because the entire weapon is firing, not just one barrel.

**Jidmah**

Norade wrote:
Jidmah wrote:It still has two mountings, two barrels. Just because it is inside an armored turrent, does not make it cease to exist. If one of the barrels is not able to see target, it should get cover(though highly unlikely to happen on both warhound and baneblade). Also the discussion only realy matters to weapons at least an inch apart, or guns pressed into a wall to exploit the "picking" rule.

Note that you are not checking whether you have LoS or not, but if the shot "is blocked by terrain or models"(BRB pg. 58). "The shot" is fired by all barrels at the same time, so if any of the barrels sight gets blocked by terrain, the shot was blocked, and the target unit would recieve cover.

Provide a rules quote for the book asking you to measure from more than one barrel or more than one mounting for any weapon. Oh, you can't do it, then it's not a rule.

Oh wait, it doesn't say what to do for two barrels on a weapon. So TL weapons may never shoot at all! And also I'm an unfriendly Jakeroo flinging poo, because someone argues against me.

**kirsanth**

Like when a single blast weapon can fire multiple times?

There are rules covering remarkably similar circumstances--use them, make up rules with your opponent, or break the game and call it a day.

/shrug

**Mannahnin**

Jidmah wrote:It still has two mountings, two barrels. Just because it is inside an armored turrent, does not make it cease to exist. If one of the barrels is not able to see target, it should get cover(though highly unlikely to happen on both warhound and baneblade). Also the discussion only realy matters to weapons at least an inch apart, or guns pressed into a wall to exploit the "picking" rule.

It comes up, though. The most common problem model is the Typhoon when trying to peek out around terrain while staying covered or partially hidden. But it can happen with pretty much any TL gun. In the first round of the Adepticon Team Tournament this year, our opponents were trying to shoot the TL multi-melta from a Stormraven around a tall building at a Razorback, and one barrel had a clear shot while the other was totally blocked.

Jidmah wrote:Note that you are not checking whether you have LoS or not, but if the shot "is blocked by terrain or models"(BRB pg. 58). "The shot" is fired by all barrels at the same time, so if any of the barrels sight gets blocked by terrain, the shot was blocked, and the target unit would recieve cover.

Agreed. This is probably the best way to play it, the most likely to be RAI, and the closest to RAW (since RAW really doesn't cover it).

**Murrdox**

Why do you even need a twin-linked gun to make this argument? It seems you'd have this argument with ANY large weapon system. Case and point:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440276a&prodId=prod1670003

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440252a&prodId=prod770022a

The Whirlwind isn't twin-linked, but it's a huge hulking weapon. It's not unreasonable to think a unit might be hidden from one side of the missile launcher, and visible from the other. Which is it? Do you give your opponent a cover save because LoS is blocked from half of the weapon?

**olympia**

btemple0 wrote:A weapon "mount" is how the weapon is affixed to a vehicle, therefore it does not matter how many barrels are on weapon system itself. Two seperately mounted weapons would also be independent of each other, which on the TLAC, Vulcan Mega-Bolter, TLLC, and so on, are not independent of themselves, and if I recall correctly, there is a little sensor camera dead center on the weapon itself, indicating from where LOS should be drawn. There is no picking of barrel because the entire weapon is firing, not just one barrel.

This does not work. The perverse situation could arise where the "mount" does NOT have LOS but weapon barrels do.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nos is in good company as the ETC holds a position identical to his.

**btemple0**

Murrdox wrote:Why do you even need a twin-linked gun to make this argument? It seems you'd have this argument with ANY large weapon system. Case and point:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440276a&prodId=prod1670003

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440252a&prodId=prod770022a

The Whirlwind isn't twin-linked, but it's a huge hulking weapon. It's not unreasonable to think a unit might be hidden from one side of the missile launcher, and visible from the other. Which is it? Do you give your opponent a cover save because LoS is blocked from half of the weapon?

Fire the missles that deny cover saves then.

**Jidmah**

Murrdox wrote:Why do you even need a twin-linked gun to make this argument? It seems you'd have this argument with ANY large weapon system. Case and point:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440276a&prodId=prod1670003

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440252a&prodId=prod770022a

The Whirlwind isn't twin-linked, but it's a huge hulking weapon. It's not unreasonable to think a unit might be hidden from one side of the missile launcher, and visible from the other. Which is it? Do you give your opponent a cover save because LoS is blocked from half of the weapon?

Nice find - as long as any of the four missles are blocked, the target should be in cover.

**btemple0**

Jidmah wrote:
Murrdox wrote:Why do you even need a twin-linked gun to make this argument? It seems you'd have this argument with ANY large weapon system. Case and point:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440276a&prodId=prod1670003

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440252a&prodId=prod770022a

The Whirlwind isn't twin-linked, but it's a huge hulking weapon. It's not unreasonable to think a unit might be hidden from one side of the missile launcher, and visible from the other. Which is it? Do you give your opponent a cover save because LoS is blocked from half of the weapon?

Nice find - as long as any of the four missles are blocked, the target should be in cover.

Unless firing Incindiery Castellan Missles, which ignore cover.

**Jidmah**

Unless the weapon was destroyed... what's your point?

**btemple0**

That the whirlwind is a unique situation, and it is not a Twin Linked or Twin weapon, it is a single weapon. The whirlwind may also fire as an ordinance barrage, which may also deny a cover save. ( BRB page 58, Ordinance Barrage Weapons, Final Paragraph )

Also the missle variety is chosen when the Whirlwind fires its Multiple Missle Launcher, weapon destroyed removes the whole turret, not an ammo selection.

**Jidmah**

Ah, barrage is a different thing then. You'd only have to check if you can trace LoS at all for those.

Of course you don't get cover saves against weapon's ignoring cover, no matter how much auf the view would be blocked.