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Also, try to use the words 'Games Workshop' and not GW, because we need the message to be clear to everyone in the title.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the "Reduced Games Workshop Prices Campaign"

Kanluwen wrote:

lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!

I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.

White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.

I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product

Exactly, why do loads of people always go against you even if it is a good point online?

lukewild1982 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!

I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.

White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.

I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product

The xbox magazines are just as, if not worse, low quality as White Dwarf is now.

But really. Are you expecting them to do more than having painting articles or game reports featuring the newest product?

Even GW isn't that stupid.

Actually I think there shoudl be a nominal decrease in prices. Its insane what they are charging. The new medium is cheaper its as simple as that!

Kanluwen wrote:

But really. Are you expecting them to do more than having painting articles or game reports featuring the newest product?

Even GW isn't that stupid.

But they are and that's the point. A WD that covers diverse aspects of the hobby would do a lot more to bring gamers in IMHO.

Lord Scythican wrote:

redeyed wrote:try a written letter guys, much more effective.

also sadly I dont expect anyone to get more than the usual silence or generic reply..but the more mail they get the less likely they will be able to bury their heads in the sand.

or you could do something even more effective which I have finally chosen to do and plan to stick by.

STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS NEW ,that will hurt them alot more if many people do it.

And if you still need your addiction sated, try ebay/second hand!

But this is just a band aide on a broken leg. I want the product I enjoy to be successful. I want them to make money and invest it back into the product. If we speak with out wallets, eventually the game will fail and then we will have nothing.

No it won't.

You were just the one busting chops that the letter writing campaign wouldn't work. Combined with a general boycott, the company will do the smart thing and go where the money is.

I/E either pay attention to what the major event was that !@#$'d off the fans, or they deserver to fall by the wayside and you take your business elsewhere.

You don't want them to be successful if the only thing they are doing is !@#$ing you off.


Speak with your wallet and smack them on the face. If the game fails, ( which it won't.) then it was crap to begin with and deserved to fail.

Honestly though? We are talking about Warhammer and 40K. These damn games have been around over 25 years. They didn't do that by being consistant crap. They took the road to heresy a step at a time, and its culmulated to this point where they think they know what's best when clearly they are talking the preverbial piss.

Let them learn the error of thier ways by taking $$$ out of thier pockets.

Kanluwen wrote:

lukewild1982 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!

I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.

White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.

I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product

The xbox magazines are just as, if not worse, low quality as White Dwarf is now.

But really. Are you expecting them to do more than having painting articles or game reports featuring the newest product?

Even GW isn't that stupid.

Your point of just saying what I have said is wrong hold absolutely nothing with me as its just not the case. I have read plenty of articles that are prefectly fine and tell you what you want to know. I am not going to a 360 mag looking for pullitzer winning material in the field of journalism. Articles they have, white dwarf does not THATS my point. Also yes I do expect them to have more articles because you know what thats pretty much what it was before. You used to get loads of things in white dwarf now basically nothing!!

I can only assume you work for the White Dwarf team for you blindly faithful defence of it!

Look at white dwarfs from around 2004, they had some nice conversions, now they would do none of that, 'cos the little kid mights say, can you buy this conversion'

Then they'll increase the prices...

I was thinking of something like this but the last paragraph is a bit to 'whineseer' for my liking

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to you to register complaint at your proposed pricing increases. As a collector and player of most Games Workshop games for this past 15 years I am both disappointed and angered to hear of a simultaneous price increase due to the shift to ‘Citadel Finecast’. Indeed if this is a resin-like material then it is cheaper to acquire and your production costs should be cheaper. You may have additional overheads at present while the change is implemented, but despite being cheaper in the long run you have chosen, once again, to pass this cost onto the consumer.

I realise that some changes do indeed justify increased cost, however it seems as if there has been an almost regular, annual, increase in prices. Your competition is able to produce similar miniatures, substantially cheaper and be a successful business. While your plastic kits are indeed some of the best currently being manufactured, I am afraid to tell you they are not good value for money. Armies need more miniatures to become viable due to points re-structuring, lack of support for older codices, imbalanced codices and a generally hazy rule-set do not stand in your favour.

Despite marketing yourselves as a miniatures company you must realise that the games are what sell the majority of your miniatures. While semi-official, almost pseudo-casual guidelines, used to be serviceable in the 80’s and early 90’s the world has moved on. When, as a player I play a game I want to know the rules, clearly. I want my army to be supported. When you market an army, we as players are trusting that you will support it. If you update Necrons or Witch Hunters why should I buy them - the miniatures alone are not worth the cost, and I have no guarantee of support.

I recently bought a whole stack of old WD's and Citadel Journals from a carboot sale for nostalgia (+they were so cheap)

and the difference in quality...is remarkable...

Alot more directly related hobby articles (I.E rules, tips, tricks etc)

cardboard freebies (And even model freebies with some) and unique mini games

the advertising was at the back of the mag not in the front/middle/rear/covar/EVERYWHERE

and as for the journals..it was so fun to read them!

A game which appeals to the pre/post adolescent as the new customer base...

3rd edition - @ $200 to build a viable army

5th edition - through size increases (discounts in codex) and general increase in point total (1500 now averaging 1850 for a norm game) and cost increase.
@ $500 to build a viable army

200 to 500 is acceptable but add to the fact that you have a game changing event (new codex release) every 3 to 4 months and what you do is disappoint and later PO and finally cause people to abandon the game when your $500 investment gets invalidated at least once per year.

Now I am an older gamer with $$ but some 20-something who enjoys it but has a lot less discretionary income is going to drop the hobby or go to an alternative outlet that is more affordable.

lukewild1982 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

lukewild1982 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!

I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.

White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.

I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product

The xbox magazines are just as, if not worse, low quality as White Dwarf is now.

But really. Are you expecting them to do more than having painting articles or game reports featuring the newest product?

Even GW isn't that stupid.

Your point of just saying what I have said is wrong hold absolutely nothing with me as its just not the case. I have read plenty of articles that are prefectly fine and tell you what you want to know. I am not going to a 360 mag looking for pulitzer winning material in the field of journalism. Articles they have, white dwarf does not THATS my point. Also yes I do expect them to have more articles because you know what thats pretty much what it was before. You used to get loads of things in white dwarf now basically nothing!!

Yeah, okay. I think you completely failed your reading tests.

I can only assume you work for the White Dwarf team for you blindly faithful defence of it!

Clearly I didn't say that "it's not just White Dwarf that's a crummy excuse for a magazine now".
Clearly.

Now I'd suggest when you want to have a grown-up conversation, you come back and talk to me.

Grot 6 wrote:

No it won't.

You were just the one busting chops that the letter writing campaign wouldn't work. Combined with a general boycott, the company will do the smart thing and go where the money is.

I/E either pay attention to what the major event was that !@#$'d off the fans, or they deserver to fall by the wayside and you take your business elsewhere.

You don't want them to be successful if the only thing they are doing is !@#$ing you off.


Speak with your wallet and smack them on the face. If the game fails, ( which it won't.) then it was crap to begin with and deserved to fail.

Honestly though? We are talking about Warhammer and 40K. These damn games have been around over 25 years. They didn't do that by being consistant crap. They took the road to heresy a step at a time, and its culmulated to this point where they think they know what's best when clearly they are talking the preverbial piss.

Let them learn the error of thier ways by taking $$$ out of thier pockets.

I was just trying to be realistic. I can't help it. I am pessimistic by nature. This exact same thread has probably been posted 10,000 times on the internet in the last decade. A few people will write letters. A few will quit. By the end of the week they will all be replaced with more people.

You speak with your wallet and the game suffers. Buying online, buying used, etc. is probably some of the reasons why GW has raised their prices.

Unification by thousands of people is the only way and frankly I don't think there is more than 100 who are willing to unify.


BUT I will say this. I hope that I am proven wrong. Something needs to change. GW needs to know they are risking a significant portion of their fanbase. I really hope something could be put together to show them this, but I still don't think it will happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iPwned wrote:Edit: Ninja'd

Nüb wrote:
However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.

<YourAddress>

<DateOfWritingLetter>

Games Workshop
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS

Dear <NameOfGamesWorkshopEmployee>,

I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing <GameSystems> since <Date> but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive>, I would love to include <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive> in my <FavoriteArmy> but its cost of <NewProductCost> places it beyond what I can spend on <GameSystem> at this time.

<OptionalSection>
The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of <GameSystemThatDidSomethingSimillar>. <Publisher> <DidSomethingSimilar> which led to me <DoingSomething>.
</OptionalSection>

While I love <FavoriteGWGameSystem> and have spent <MeasureOfTime> building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to leave <FavoriteGWGameSystem> behind and take up something like <CompetingProduct>.

Thank you for your time and Consideration.

Sincerely,
<YourName>

So for instance, I were to write Jervis today I might write:

12 Shoggoth Way
R'Lyeh

May 17, 2011


Dear Mr. Jervis Johnson,

I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing Warhammer 40,000 since July of 2008, but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider the Necron Battle Force, I am looking to expand my Necron army ahead of the rumoured codex release this year, but its cost of $105(USD) represents an increase of slightly over 16% compared to last year. While it would be significantly more simple to buy new models, I will instead be purchasing the models I want second hand to help cut costs.

The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of Magic: The Gathering. Wizards of the Coast began releasing an new core set every year in addition to their typical three expansions. Any card that is no longer printed in a core set or in one of the current year's expansions may not be used in the most popular game formats. This priced me out of their market. I sold off all of the cards I owned and used the money to purchase one of the Realm of Battle and terrain bundles that was available when Planetstrike was released.

While I love Warrhammer 40K, and have spent many hours over the past three years building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to do the same thing I did with Magic, and find another game system.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
iPwned

Looks like a good start to me!

What is their e-mail address? I checked the website, but I think that one is just for orders BTW myself and 4 others have written letters in a coherent and well thought out manner

I dunno - nice template letter, that allows alot more of us to do a letter without any effort!

Toastedandy wrote:What is their e-mail address? I checked the website, but I think that one is just for orders BTW myself and 4 others have written letters in a coherent and well thought out manner

I haven't found one besides the order email address.

On topic of magazine quality in generell.

From what I can tell, videogame magazines have infos and pictures of new stuff that sometimes won't hit the web for a week or two. Often they get inclusive insight into a new game.

But we don't have to change the hobby. Just look at NoQuarter. New rules every month, to get people excited for upcoming releases. The only exciting thing about the WD these days is the teaser page for the next month.

DAMN price rise again.Resin costs should be cheaper than metals yet they are going to up the prices again.we just had a raise in january(uk)and now this.Games Workshop is taking the piss out of its customers and i can't justify paying what i do for what im getting.Alas its maybe time for me to try another company.

Posted on Warseer - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5516678#post5516678

Got an automated reply from the customer service team -

Hi,



Thank you for your mail to the Customer Service Team.

Whilst we try to answer most mails within 48 hours, sometimes this is not possible due to busy periods.

If your request is urgent then, please be aware that you can contact us on (0044) 0 115 914 0000 and the Customer Service team will be able to help you further.

Our opening times are 10am to 6pm Monday to Saturday and closed on Sundays.



Seems that this is the right email address - orders@gam​es-workshop​.co.uk
orders@games-workshop.co.uk

Toastedandy wrote:Posted on Warseer - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5516678#post5516678

Got an automated reply from the customer service team -

Hi,



Thank you for your mail to the Customer Service Team.

Whilst we try to answer most mails within 48 hours, sometimes this is not possible due to busy periods.

If your request is urgent then, please be aware that you can contact us on (0044) 0 115 914 0000 and the Customer Service team will be able to help you further.

Our opening times are 10am to 6pm Monday to Saturday and closed on Sundays.



Seems that this is the right email address - orders@gam​es-workshop​.co.uk
orders@games-workshop.co.uk

I have sent a customer complaint type email to this address and got a response (following the above automated response), but the focus here should be on posted letters not emails.

I am up for sending out a handwritten letter on Friday. Since my semester is over, I can spend some time writing out an eloquent letter. Note, I'm not using the term "eloquent" in a sarcastic matter, I really do mean it.


I'll be posting a sample of what I've written so far in an hour or so.

I'm onboard. A lot of my anger stems from their pressure on the retailers. I will send 1 letter a day the first week, 2 the second, 4 the third, 8 the fifth....

Mark N. Wells, CEO and Kevin D Rountree, CFO

Send your letters to them gents

Information gathered here: http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2011/2010-11_FinalHalfYearReport.pdf

Funnily enough I just sent a message to Tom earlier asking him about GW's policy about Specialist Games & whether or not GW didn't support/make boxed sets for them due to a lack of demand or if there was another reason. If he doesn't reply over the next week or so I'll be sending a letter for sure. I think there is a clear link between the lack of Specialist Game support (by us as hobbyists as well as by Games Workshop) & the lack of variety (and words) in White Dwarf. It's not that I feel the articles are that bad, but there's less of them and its just full of Warhammer and 40k, a bit of painting, BATTLE REPORT!, a Jervis thought & ads - repeat.

I think Lukewild1982 is doing the right thing in trying to voice his concerns & thoughts directly to GW (even though I disagree with parts of it). I don't know why people don't try and engage with Games Workshop in a more positive manner by sending them emails/letters etc. I'd be surprised if they'd listen to one that was just full of hate and abuse - especialy as they are still making profit (after all would you?), but I think they would be more likely to one that is written out of genuine concern for the hobby the writer clearly cares about (some of us at any rate ).

I know that after being on here for a while, and looking elsewhere, there is so much negative & angry thoughts and posts on or about GW and how they have evolved into more of a corporate machine than a hobby company, and that many of these are written with passion & conviction - yet I have never heard of the same passion & conviction to be used to try and get GW to listen to such opinions.

I also know many people are prepared to (if they haven't already) abandon GW games and move onto other things. I'm not willing to do so just that yet as I believe (perhaps naively or stupidly) as hobbyists and customers we can have a vital role to change all the things people often vocally protest about, no matter how small or great. I'd rather try and make a change than say it & the thought of a using a Warcaster over a Phoenix Lord hasn't exactly got me excited just as yet. I know that if anything like the campaign I've started for Warhammer Quest (and all Specialist Games) is to succeed it would take a co-ordinated effort by hobbyists & fans world-wide to make their voices be heard & to get what we want as customers. Sadly a lot of people seem too negative to even consider that such a simple thing could work. I just feel that if enough of us demand it - they'll be more likely to supply it than if we did nothing other than argue amongst ourselves.

If you want your voice to be heard in a more official capacity then buy a Share, at least then you'll be given the chance to express your concerns directly to members of the board, and other shareholders, rather than at sites like Dakka all the time. The chances are you've already spent a lot on GW product over the years so what's another 400-500p?

I believe the only way of doing anything to make GW change for the better is to be more political. If people feel that strongly about GW's treatment of them, White Dwarf, Specialist Games or whatever else, then organise petitions, sit down protests in Stores (and make sure you film/photograph them and send them around the internet) or else organise a protest at GW HQ & constantly send letters demanding greater product variety & better co-ordinated releases etc...or else stop playing GW games & don't comment on any thread about them - erase them from your mind as if they were a bad dream.

If all the people on Dakka & other forums who had issues with GW did send letters or hold a mass protest at a co-ordinated time, they'd need a snow shovel to get the letters (and the people) off the floor. Nerd-Rage Against the Machine if you feel that strongly about it & take the power back or else spare the people that still enjoy the hobby and GW products your pointless thoughts (and - I'm sorry to say - they are just that unless you follow them with some form of meaningful action).

Sorry for the long post people, but that's everything I have to say on the subject

Not trying to be a jerk, but I'm sure GW deleted that as quickly as I scrolled past it.

I had no idea this would get such an enthusiatic reaction from people who are open minded and see the need for change

Shame some people are really narrow minded and seem to talk absolutely no sense, and try and put things down for the sake of it, mentioning no names of course cough cough Kanluwen cough

Flashman wrote:

Kirby wrote:Also, our miniatures are the best in the world and we believe in charging premium prices for our premium products and services.

The little toad. If somebody wrote that to me, he'd be getting a strongly worded response. Basically, this much the same as Nike saying we charge £200 for a pair of trainers because our brand adds value, as opposed to a price that reflects the materials, wages and overheads.

And anway, aside from some of their miniatures, nothing GW sells is a premium product.

Meh. Apple have been doing this for 5 years and it seems to work for them. iCrap is at least a 25% mark up in price for the logo.

Charging more for product that is 'better'* is how business works.

* Better, in this case, may be subjective. For minis it almost certainly is. For computers, there's 'better' machines in terms of raw specs, but Apple makes up for it and provides value (to some people) based on user experience, customer support, etc.

Here is one I sent on to the "talk to tom" thingy.

"Hello Tom,

Just wanted to say that, while I am an avid fan of 40k (all the army books I own are my staple bed-time reading), I am slowly becoming...upset by your prices. Now, I know that what you guys produce is of the highest quality, BUT, consider this: I have been toying with the idea of starting a 2,000 point Dark Eldar army in addition to my Work in Progress 2,000 point Tau army. However, when I added up the cost of this army, I realized that I could not afford it. $800 USD is a lot for a 20 something college graduate, even though I have a lot of expendable income. I have face the same dilemma with Warhammer Fantasy Battle, namely, I have wanted to add a unit of 40 Savage Orcs to my 3,000 point Orcs and Goblins army, But, once again, I balked at the price. I really cannot afford $140 USD for a unit of 40 plastic soldiers!

So, to get to the point; upon reading your latest Final Half Year report, and I noticed that your sales are down by 4%. This is worrying to me, as I know a lot of people who have stopped buying because of the prices that are charged. I can only say that you can expect to see sales go down even further if you continue too raise prices. All I suggest is to keep the prices the way they are at the moment, and maybe even decrease the prices by 10%, and you can expect to see sales either level out, or go up by 1-2%.

Sadly, I am forced to buy my Games Workshop product second hand, or from discount stores. And that saddens me, because I love your games and their miniatures, but I cannot afford to pay your prices. It is the same with everybody else I know that is a fan of GW.

And, one final thing; I know a lot of your sales come from 10-16 year old children with rich parents. These children tend to buy a lot of your stuff in a short period of time, and then end up forgetting all about it. In the past, I have observed that the parents of these children where willing to pay for these products, just to satiate the child. Now, however, I see parents balking at the prices on your figures. I have seen many a parent out right refuse to buy their child a $100 Baneblade, or a $25 Ork Warboss. This is worrying, as a majority of you sales tend to come from these types of people, and now that customer base is drying up because of the prices.

Now, I know that it costs money to make these figure and to run the website and pay your employees. I just don't understand how the overhead can make it necessary to charge so much for your models.

I will just have to not start that Dark Eldar army I have always wanted.

With a heavy heart,
Sincerely
)My name("

Now, I just need to start sending letters to the GW headquarters in the USA.

ALSO! I have a good idea: if we really wanna make an impact, we should all to get everybody in our FLGS and game groups to send polite, calm letters, hand written letters to GW. Say 1 per person in your group in the first week, 2 in the second, 4 in the third, 8 in the 4th, and so on.

Better yet, combine this with sending the same amount of emails to all the GW related addresses you can find, and I think we have got something going here, baby!