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2011/05/20 09:57:52
Subject: Re:Online petition about GW price increases
KingCracker wrote:Ugh, the naysayers on petitions annoy the gak out of me. How bout you take 5 secs to fill it out and hit send. You spend more time bitching and complaining and trolling then it takes to just shut up and sign. Not to mention if you followed that logic, petitions would be FAR more effective because there would be more signatures on them
As I was basing my grots just now, I thought of this comment, and you know what, KC... you have a point. So I'd like to take a second here and explain why I posted what I posted.
Wargaming in general gets a lot of turnover
As people get older, they sometimes grow out of the hobby and find new interests, or take breaks that become permanent. At the same time, kids get old enough to start playing, so there is always a constant infusion of new blood, people who don't know much about our community
Many new people show up at DakkaDakka every day
Take a gander at the Introductions board. Tons of new people discover this site and want to explore their new interest and see our ideas.
Wu-Tang is for the children
... what?
We try to guide these new people
Whether it's advice in YMDC or with the Army List section, to Painting & Modelling, people come here to find out how to do stuff
New people will be butthurt about GWS price increases too
Because they also don't like spending more money, especially because they just started.
Sometimes, campaigns organized online are effective
Look at bringing back Jericho on the air, or Barack Obama's successful use of social networks as a fundraising platform in 2008.
Internet Petitions, on the other hand, are never effective
All the other petitions involved doing stuff (in the case of Jericho, sending the networks bags of nuts). In the case of internet petitions asking for signatures, they appeal to you because they take no effort to do. Since everyone knows they take no effort to do, they have no weight, either.
Games Workshop is specifically resilient to internet-based efforts
In addition to the above, GWS is particularly xenophobic to online efforts of any kind. Another poster indicated accurately that their position reflects a company who believes the web is a passing fad, and any day now we'll go back to mail order.
New posters might not know this kind of effort has been tried before
But it has. Many, many times. Google "Games Workshop Petition". Look at how many failed efforts there are. For chrissakes, it took like 3 years just to get them to clarify the rules for a single game mechanic, the Deffrolla, and THAT only took a few moments of thought.
Mail campaigns might work
But, probably not. Definitely more effective then an internet petition, though. GWS in particular is more likely to read their mail, as its their preferred medium.
Ceasing to buy their stuff would work for sure
Because every public company has to respond to shareholders when they start taking a loss.
So, there you go. I'm not trying to go out of my way to crap on anyone else's parade. It makes you feel good, you should do it. I just wanted to make sure that the people posting here, statistically some of which will be new, are aware that this has been tried, has failed, and in my opinion is likely to fail again. The people who are trying to organize a letter-writing campaign (you know, on actual paper) might be more successful, I don't know. But at the end of the day, the only thing I know for sure which will work would be to stop buying their stuff, period.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/20 11:42:26
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2011/05/20 11:58:09
Subject: Re:Online petition about GW price increases
Regarding bringing Jericho (American post-nuke primetime drama) back online: the reason it was successful was not really the online petition, I think, but more because of the literally thousands of lbs. of peanuts that were sent to the network's headquarters by fans.
If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, my suggestion is to stick your plastic models in the oven and melt them into a large, completely unusable, barely recognizable glob. Send the plastic hunk to GWHQ and tell them to go feth themselves.
I haven't really purchased a GW fig in a year or so; I have so many I will die before I paint them all anyway, but if I ruined all of them and sent them back, there's no way I would start collecting armies again - not a chance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/20 11:59:41
Heh- Internet petitions, a way to do absolutely nothing and feel good about it. Seriously, how can anyone claim "But you guys aren't *doing* anything/putting effort out" when all you bother to do is sign a worthless e-petition?
On the other hand...
I HAVE AMAZING BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY!! MILLIONS OF DOLLAR FROM KENYAN PRINCE IN BANK! FORWARD ME BANK ACCOUNT AND SOCIAL SECURITY INFORMATION FOR ONCE IN LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY!
Yep, that's it, everyone send GW the melted remains of a space marine/sprue. Eventually they will become so buried in sprues that they will have to listen!
Another totally stupid thread filled with comments by fools. If you don't like what GW is doing, simply walk away. There are many other games out there that are cheaper and faster with better rules and sculptures. I cannot even think of a good reason why someone will ike to start on WH or 40K these days.
2011/05/20 22:05:20
Subject: Re:Online petition about GW price increases
Ouze wrote:It makes you feel good, you should do it.
But that's all you're doing, making yourself feel better. If you really want to make a change then you have to take action, which no one is interested in doing apparently because it takes more effort than typing your name.
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
2011/05/20 23:16:26
Subject: Re:Online petition about GW price increases
Ouze wrote:It makes you feel good, you should do it.
But that's all you're doing, making yourself feel better. If you really want to make a change then you have to take action, which no one is interested in doing apparently because it takes more effort than typing your name.
lol
“Yesss! Just as planned!”
–Spoken by Xi’aquan, Lord of Change, in its death throes
This is how I fixed my problem with GW. I stopped buying warhammer. I nolonger found it appealing to me as the prices would literally kill my chances at life. So I basically gave GW the finger and walked away though I still play with the terrain I built and the models i bought from many sources. So Indirectly I bought from GW. For really low prices.
Be a smart shopper also helps.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Seriously, what they're doing is legal, and if you can't handle it, walk away. There are some of us who won't, but that's our problem... I sympathize, and believe me I probably have less disposable income than most of the people here, but it's really your choice to carry on or not.
For those of you leaving, you probably are making the right choice though, I won't lie. Kudos
Kanluwen wrote:People don't "go to GW stores" here in the US for the most part.
There are virtually no GW stores to go to.
They're not going to stop going to FLGSes though.
Not true. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area....there are 3 GW stores within a 30 minute drive from where I live. I don't go to any of them these days and, with their price increase, won't be anytime soon.
Conversely, on the opposite side of the country, there are no GW stores. There are none near my house. I'm not even sure if there's one within a day's drive from where I live. I do have several independent stores, and it saddens me to think that GW's recent decisions may negatively impact them.
Exactly. The nearest 'official' GW store to me, here in North Carolina, is located in one of three states(Virginia, Tennessee, and South Carolina).
I think a more effective campaign would be to send GW copies of your receipts when you buy other companies' products. Every warmachine, flames of war, heavy gear blitz, infinity, firestorm armada, or dystopian wars, etc purchase you make - copy the receipt and send it off in the mail.
Kanluwen wrote:People don't "go to GW stores" here in the US for the most part.
There are virtually no GW stores to go to.
They're not going to stop going to FLGSes though.
Not true. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area....there are 3 GW stores within a 30 minute drive from where I live. I don't go to any of them these days and, with their price increase, won't be anytime soon.
Conversely, on the opposite side of the country, there are no GW stores. There are none near my house. I'm not even sure if there's one within a day's drive from where I live. I do have several independent stores, and it saddens me to think that GW's recent decisions may negatively impact them.
Exactly. The nearest 'official' GW store to me, here in North Carolina, is located in one of three states(Virginia, Tennessee, and South Carolina).
Same 'problem' here - there are no "official GW Stores" in all of New England.
The closest one is, I think, the 8th Street - Greenwich Village store in NEW YORK, some 200+ miles away.
GW hasn't 'figured out' how to properly run their stores in the USA, and rely almost entirely on the FLGS network to get things done, for the most part.
Very little, if any, Free Rides exist in the USA...
Thrax wrote:I think a more effective campaign would be to send GW copies of your receipts when you buy other companies' products. Every warmachine, flames of war, heavy gear blitz, infinity, firestorm armada, or dystopian wars, etc purchase you make - copy the receipt and send it off in the mail.
That's a pretty good idea, actually!
Send a covering letter to say you bought 3rd party company product A instead of GW product Z because it is 40% cheaper.
Thrax wrote:I think a more effective campaign would be to send GW copies of your receipts when you buy other companies' products. Every warmachine, flames of war, heavy gear blitz, infinity, firestorm armada, or dystopian wars, etc purchase you make - copy the receipt and send it off in the mail.
That's a pretty good idea, actually!
Send a covering letter to say you bought 3rd party company product A instead of GW product Z because it is 40% cheaper.
Seconded!
It accomplishes the 'real letter' thing and combines it with "hard truth/reality" evidence too.
Just be sure to black out your credit card details if you didn't pay with cash, just to be on the safe side!
2011/05/22 19:47:54
Subject: Re:Online petition about GW price increases
Another Dakka petition? Reading all these posts reminded me of a well known comedy scene which you can see below in the video. It's best to fast forward to the 1:30 mark for maximum effectiveness. I bet GW never seen this coming! Field Marshall Dakka, military genius
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Kanluwen wrote:People don't "go to GW stores" here in the US for the most part.
There are virtually no GW stores to go to.
They're not going to stop going to FLGSes though.
Not true. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area....there are 3 GW stores within a 30 minute drive from where I live. I don't go to any of them these days and, with their price increase, won't be anytime soon.
Conversely, on the opposite side of the country, there are no GW stores. There are none near my house. I'm not even sure if there's one within a day's drive from where I live. I do have several independent stores, and it saddens me to think that GW's recent decisions may negatively impact them.
Exactly. The nearest 'official' GW store to me, here in North Carolina, is located in one of three states(Virginia, Tennessee, and South Carolina).
Same 'problem' here - there are no "official GW Stores" in all of New England.
I never said it was really a 'problem', Alpharius.
The closest one is, I think, the 8th Street - Greenwich Village store in NEW YORK, some 200+ miles away.
GW hasn't 'figured out' how to properly run their stores in the USA, and rely almost entirely on the FLGS network to get things done, for the most part.
Very little, if any, Free Rides exist in the USA.
Yep.
They don't exist in the UK or Australia or anywhere else, I'd assume.
Wells picked a crummy way to explain the stance they're taking which was in a very shortsighted way to try to cut the "root" of the problem that they're seeing: which is UK distributors providing Oceanic customers with discounted prices while doing nothing to 'contribute' to the Oceanic gaming community outside of miniatures.
Let the hate commence, but the man has a point. Maelstrom and Wayland don't provide tables for the oceanic customers. GW and the LGSes that complained do.
I would say that Wells' point is based on flawed logic. Maelstrom and the like were in fact providing a crucial service to the gaming community in the southern hemisphere- product at a decent price. Many Aussies have posted on here stating that they could only afford to play because of the discounts that they got from online retailers. Tables and playing space are moot points if no one has figures to play with.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/23 04:26:30
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon
Yes, but what will it do? The point is that the amount of people leaving GW forever is the only thing that will make them change their minds... and not even. As said before but I can't recall where, the people up at GW accounting department KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!! It may not be the best thing from anyone's perspective, but this is evidently what is necessary for GW to survive...
Sam__theRelentless wrote:Yes, but what will it do? The point is that the amount of people leaving GW forever is the only thing that will make them change their minds... and not even. As said before but I can't recall where, the people up at GW accounting department KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!! It may not be the best thing from anyone's perspective, but this is evidently what is necessary for GW to survive...
It's what the management think is necessary to maximise returns for the shareholders.
Yet another slowed internet petition's statement wrote:...paint (now £3 a pot!) and brushes (£5 a time).
Nobody is forcing you to buy GW paints or brushes. There are MANY, MANY other options with different prices.
Yet another slowed internet petition's statement wrote:Who has nearly £100 spare now?
Well, I know I do. I just spent more than double that on a 24 channel mixing board for a pa system. I have the money to spend on the models, I just choose not to. Mostly because I have all the Eldar I need, but also because their prices are so outrageous, I choose not to spend w/ them.
Yet another slowed internet petition's statement wrote:The future of the business is based on children. How many of them can afford that?
The same way my 10 year old was able to "afford" a brand new BMX bike for his b-day, three days after his older brother got a brand new BMX bike. The same way my 10 year old "afforded" some DS games, a couple Wii games, and a mess of toys.
Point is, kids will ALWAYS be able to "afford" things. Parents buy them. Simple as that. Basing a petition around the last quote up there is just asinine.
These types of threads are getting about as frequent as "Which glue do I use for..." and "How do I strip paint from..." and they are easily as annoying. However, I think these threads are a bigger waste of space. Dakka should adopt an official stance of staying away from politics like this.
Ghidorah
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/23 15:41:36
Sidstyler wrote:Because if history has taught us anything it's that online petitions work.
well said!
They have to make money. With the global economy in the state it's in, I'm surprised at how many people are still getting in to the hobby. Many of you have been complaing about x/y/z about GW any way, so what does it matter to you? For the rest of us, we should understand that prices on goods and services go up. I was purchasing something on eBay, archived the page, purchased the same item two days later and shipping went up almost $3. It happens.
Kanluwen wrote:People don't "go to GW stores" here in the US for the most part.
There are virtually no GW stores to go to.
They're not going to stop going to FLGSes though.
Not true. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area....there are 3 GW stores within a 30 minute drive from where I live. I don't go to any of them these days and, with their price increase, won't be anytime soon.
Conversely, on the opposite side of the country, there are no GW stores. There are none near my house. I'm not even sure if there's one within a day's drive from where I live. I do have several independent stores, and it saddens me to think that GW's recent decisions may negatively impact them.
Exactly. The nearest 'official' GW store to me, here in North Carolina, is located in one of three states(Virginia, Tennessee, and South Carolina).
Same 'problem' here - there are no "official GW Stores" in all of New England.
I never said it was really a 'problem', Alpharius.
The closest one is, I think, the 8th Street - Greenwich Village store in NEW YORK, some 200+ miles away.
GW hasn't 'figured out' how to properly run their stores in the USA, and rely almost entirely on the FLGS network to get things done, for the most part.
Very little, if any, Free Rides exist in the USA.
I live just out outside of Philadelphia, there are 9 stores within 2 hours (100 miles) of me, and a 10th within 3 (also 100 miles, but its in NYC, factoring traffic). The spread is half the issue. All the stores are in fething Delaware...
But as I've said before, I'm done with GW. Looking into 20mm modern
feeder wrote: Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.
~1200 
Reading all these posts reminded me of a well known comedy scene which you can see below in the video. It's best to fast forward to the 1:30 mark for maximum effectiveness. I bet 
& 
1000PTS WoC
500PTS VC
3100+
