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Having just watched Mel Brooks exelent comedy 'The Producers' , its got me thinking....

IF Kirby and Wells have 'golden parachutes' on standby.
Are they ACTIVLEY trying to scupper GW plc on purpose, whiile appearing to be doing a good job for the shareholders?

'We realy HAVE to kill off ALL good will and fan support.Price rises over the rate of inflation are not working!'

'I know lets disrupt as many fan sites and suplimentary companies with lots of heavy handed C&D letters and threats of legal action.THAT is sure to rile them up!'

'And then we insult ALL internet retailers after shafting as many FLGS as we can.'

'Lets replace the metal minatures with plastic ones and charge the same amount .THEY ACTUALY BOUGHT THAT!My god how stupid are they...'

'Well other companies replaced thier white metal minatures with resin and gave the customers TWICE as many minatures for the same price.'
'I KNOW what you are going to say, replace the metal minatures with resin ones and charge them more ?'
'NO not JUST that, but make sure the the new resin has appauling quality on release.'
'A complete masterstroke .ANYONE still wanting to buy product from us must be just too dumb to know when they are being done over. There cant be than many stupid people left in the world surley....?


(This is a light hearted supposition and not ment to upset those people, who despite GW plcs best efforts to disuade them from buying GW product, still do. )

I have to say that amongst all the recent complaining that video was excellent.

I still don't have a problem with GW prices, but the rules for online retailers are ridiculous. Games Workshop really do need some better PR.

So is it Springtime for GW, yet?

Well the annual June hike has taken place so it must be summer Grot.

Screw PR.
That is just the slap on the wrinkles.

Slap on the wrinkles....

I love you Aussies.

Pretty sure Chibi isn't Australian....

Oh....

I love Brits too :-)

This post was inappropriate for Dakka Dakka. We're talking about toy soldiers here; please do not mix in religious violence. Thank you. - Lorek

filbert wrote:

agnosto wrote:

As a stockholder I've already made my concerns known and received a response from Mark Wells. I'm really a very very minor shareholder but it was good to be heard.

Mind filling us in on what he said? I think one of the major bugbears that the video highlights is not necessarily GW's complete silence on the issues but also when they do choose to respond it's either along the lines of telling people to effectively shut up and suck it up or it's basically calling major internet retailers like Wayland / Maelstrom 'freeloaders'.

Primarily I brought up the quality issues and the fact that a dip in quality could have an impact on share price. Mr. Wells stated that they are aware of the issues and assured me that the current defect rate is around 3%. To me 3% is acceptable as an error rate, if true. He also mentioned that they are working on refining the process further so that there are less problems ongoing.

All in all I'm fairly mollified but will keep a close eye on the financials for any signs that the stock could dip but with the fairly strong financials being reported and dividends back in play, I think my money is safe for now.

Maelstrom isnt freeloading off GW any more than GW is freeloading in our interest in wargamming.

agnosto wrote:

filbert wrote:

agnosto wrote:

As a stockholder I've already made my concerns known and received a response from Mark Wells. I'm really a very very minor shareholder but it was good to be heard.

Mind filling us in on what he said? I think one of the major bugbears that the video highlights is not necessarily GW's complete silence on the issues but also when they do choose to respond it's either along the lines of telling people to effectively shut up and suck it up or it's basically calling major internet retailers like Wayland / Maelstrom 'freeloaders'.

Primarily I brought up the quality issues and the fact that a dip in quality could have an impact on share price. Mr. Wells stated that they are aware of the issues and assured me that the current defect rate is around 3%. To me 3% is acceptable as an error rate, if true. He also mentioned that they are working on refining the process further so that there are less problems ongoing.

All in all I'm fairly mollified but will keep a close eye on the financials for any signs that the stock could dip but with the fairly strong financials being reported and dividends back in play, I think my money is safe for now.

According to a GW manager that KillKrazy spoke to, apparently miscast/defect rate on some of the Finecast kits is running at closer to a third. I would humbly suggest Mr Wells is being very optimistic...

Fantastic background choice guys... /golfclap


Can't wait for the sequel video crying about how GW 'files' 'pleas' (snubs) in the 'couldn't care less pile' (garbage) after looking at the screenshot before the video even loaded and seeing Warmachine all over the entire background...

I thought the video was good, except for the last two minutes, and the constant mantra of 'you need to do this'.
I thought the strongest point was that on entry costs. '5's and 9's' is a proven phenomenon in marketing and costing: selling something for 99.95 generates more sales than 100 simply because of sticker shock. 49.95 is better than 50. When someone sees the 'starter kit' costing $150, that is well over 'sticker shock' and into 'sticker heart attack' territory, especially when many independents sell games with a $50 starter kit at the same time.

filbert wrote:

agnosto wrote:

filbert wrote:

agnosto wrote:

As a stockholder I've already made my concerns known and received a response from Mark Wells. I'm really a very very minor shareholder but it was good to be heard.

Mind filling us in on what he said? I think one of the major bugbears that the video highlights is not necessarily GW's complete silence on the issues but also when they do choose to respond it's either along the lines of telling people to effectively shut up and suck it up or it's basically calling major internet retailers like Wayland / Maelstrom 'freeloaders'.

Primarily I brought up the quality issues and the fact that a dip in quality could have an impact on share price. Mr. Wells stated that they are aware of the issues and assured me that the current defect rate is around 3%. To me 3% is acceptable as an error rate, if true. He also mentioned that they are working on refining the process further so that there are less problems ongoing.

All in all I'm fairly mollified but will keep a close eye on the financials for any signs that the stock could dip but with the fairly strong financials being reported and dividends back in play, I think my money is safe for now.

According to a GW manager that KillKrazy spoke to, apparently miscast/defect rate on some of the Finecast kits is running at closer to a third. I would humbly suggest Mr Wells is being very optimistic...

It was 1/3 of the complex kits like Gazzgull Thraka and the Hive Tyrant, and much less on the small models. He expected it to improve. I would expect it to improve. The question is how much it will improve -- 20% in the first three months is the rule of thumb. That would bring the defect rate down to 25% of complex models, which is fairly poor actually.

The Gazzgull and Hive Tyrant models in the display window were both defective in obvious though not in crippling ways. (Though if paying £36 for a kit you should not expect any obvious defects.)

My worry is that the larger kits like Gazzgull and Hive Tyrant are exactly the kind of thing that should work much better in resin than metal due to size and weight.

mikhaila wrote:



I'd guess you don't have a good shop near you to appreciate the difference.) If by 'future', you mean 30+ years, then maybe I'll let the comment slide. My future is doubling the size of my shop this month and adding more gaming tables. Not going away for a least another couple of decades. (5 year old twin girls: 18 years until out of college, and lets not even think about weddings and dowries.)

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your shop is the exception of FLGS, not the rule which WHY folks say "the internet is the future, not brick n mortar" stores. To most people they either dont have one close enough or a good enough one they would make purchases on.

Its great YOUR shop is doing that well. Me? There are three around, and I wouldnt piss on any of them if they were on fire, much less make purchases in or even show up to anymore. FLGS havent been relevant in my life in over a decade, and I'm not the only one.

Internet has done more for my gaming experience then any FLG will ever do.

A good gaming store can grow the scene like nothing else, but as carmachu says there are plenty of people wargaming who have never set foot in one.

mikhaila wrote:One critique I'd make is the background. Maybe they were trying to make a point shooting it in front of a wall of PP products, but it was a very skimpy display of product, not laid out well, and they were using a rack GW gave them for free to hold some of the PP boxes.) A better background might have been a full wall of PP and other non-GW games, if that was the point they wanted to make.

As a former store manager, I was thinking the exact same thing! Lots of open space on that wall, space out those GW racks full of other companies product. Made me giggle.

Delephont wrote:Unfortunately I think this will fall on death ears.

Death ears? What does the word 'death' mean? Think about it for a second... Death. The act of dying. "...will fall on death ears."

Deaf.

The word you mean to use is deaf. Meaning unable to hear. Deaf ears. Ears that cannot (or will not) hear you.



Ghidorah

Ugavine wrote:I have to say that amongst all the recent complaining that video was excellent.

I still don't have a problem with GW prices, but the rules for online retailers are ridiculous. Games Workshop really do need some better PR.

What he/she said

Ghidorah wrote:

Delephont wrote:Unfortunately I think this will fall on death ears.

Death ears? What does the word 'death' mean? Think about it for a second... Death. The act of dying. "...will fall on death ears."

Deaf.

The word you mean to use is deaf. Meaning unable to hear. Deaf ears. Ears that cannot (or will not) hear you.



Ghidorah

Apologies, you are, of course, correct.....and let that be a lesson to you, never type without engaging brain first....the strangest things will appear on the page.

@Lorek
Thanks for that, you beat me to it. I felt bad about that post after making it, won't happen again.

All words of wisdom that reach the ears of GW are doomed to die.

So Death Ears it is.

carmachu wrote:

mikhaila wrote:



I'd guess you don't have a good shop near you to appreciate the difference.) If by 'future', you mean 30+ years, then maybe I'll let the comment slide. My future is doubling the size of my shop this month and adding more gaming tables. Not going away for a least another couple of decades. (5 year old twin girls: 18 years until out of college, and lets not even think about weddings and dowries.)

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your shop is the exception of FLGS, not the rule which WHY folks say "the internet is the future, not brick n mortar" stores. To most people they either dont have one close enough or a good enough one they would make purchases on.

Its great YOUR shop is doing that well. Me? There are three around, and I wouldnt piss on any of them if they were on fire, much less make purchases in or even show up to anymore. FLGS havent been relevant in my life in over a decade, and I'm not the only one.

Internet has done more for my gaming experience then any FLG will ever do.

We'll have to disagree then. I know of many (couple hundred at least) good stores. You have your three bad ones that you've claimed to piss on for years.

I have a kneejerk reaction to the many people who every year say the internet is the future. There's some smug satisfaction that it will put all FLGS out of business. Why does the it have to be an either/or statement? It's like people want stores to die just so they can prove they were right about the interwebs ascendency. There are always going to be Game Stores, Gaming clubs, basement groups, and other areas where people get together to game. The interenet isn't going to stomp that out. And there will never be a FLGS near every gamer. No black/white solution. What is happening is that many FLGS use the internet more and more, and not just to sell things.

mikhaila wrote: There are always going to be Game Stores, Gaming clubs, basement groups, and other areas where people get together to game. The interenet isn't going to stomp that out.

I am unsure how the internet ever could except if we went to an online version of the game like vassal only. And then it wouldn't be a miniature hobby, it would be an online game.

You like movie franchises or other media? You collect toys or action figures? You play online games? Yep, those fandoms are almost exclusively Internet-based now.

I simply don't see how one can wargame with only the internet. Events are still overwhelmingly run by or supported by FLGS. Last time I checked, wargaming still happens in a physical location between two real people with physical objects. So unless wargaming is going to switch to a system where people find other local players via internet and play at each other houses, a large number of people will choose to go to stores for gaming... and most clubs are based around store locations.

mikhaila wrote:

We'll have to disagree then. I know of many (couple hundred at least) good stores. You have your three bad ones that you've claimed to piss on for years.

I have many more then three. Those are just the ones near me. I have friends around various areas that can tell horror stories one right after another. Dont presume thats the end all of mine. I can tell and point out ones in NY, PA, NJ, CT among others.

I have a kneejerk reaction to the many people who every year say the internet is the future. There's some smug satisfaction that it will put all FLGS out of business. Why does the it have to be an either/or statement? It's like people want stores to die just so they can prove they were right about the interwebs ascendency. There are always going to be Game Stores, Gaming clubs, basement groups, and other areas where people get together to game. The interenet isn't going to stomp that out. And there will never be a FLGS near every gamer. No black/white solution. What is happening is that many FLGS use the internet more and more, and not just to sell things.

What do you really expect? It IS part of the future. I can point out various folks whose gaming experiences EXPANDED from the internet and not through stores. And not just 40k- OPP, D&D and various other RPG's and wargames. And no help from any FLGS. FLGS in many places, are reaping what many have sown. Not all FLGS, but there are many many bad ones, and folks experience have reflected it.


Our old gaming club came about as a direct result of a FLGS taking a piss.
You'd never know it from this discussion, but I use to be a big FLGS supporter, pay where you play, etc. But guess what? That support, in mine and many other experiences has ended, becuase it went one way. That is why its become a big either/or statement.

I'm glad your doing well adn expanding. But overall I could care less about FLGS.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:All words of wisdom that reach the ears of GW are doomed to die.

So Death Ears it is.

haha... QFT



Ghidorah

I think the only time I've ever bought GW mini's from an internet discounter is when I bought 5 Valks when they came out. I was starting IG and the Valks were so expensive that the savings added up to a good chunk of cash and I needed a bunch of other hobby stuff that my FLGS didn't carry so I made an order to The WarStore for all of it.

Other than that I have two very good FLGS near me (Games and Stuff in Glen Burnie MD and Dream Wizards in Rockville MD) that I spend my gaming money at. They provide good places to play and good service so I spend my money there.

This doesn't have to be a either/or thing and honestly I really doubt how much online retailers have really affected the brick and mortar stores. Maybe mikhaila or other store owners will tell me I am wrong but Internet discount retailers have been around for a while and I haven't seen the success/fail rate of stores in MD/PA/VA be any different than it was in the years before the Internet discounters really got going. The stores that acted like a proper business and treated their customers right are still in business and the stores that acted poorly are gone.

evilsponge wrote:

Another independent retailer speaks out with a constructive video about recent events in GW.

Unlike the 2nd video I actually managed to watch this (I tried skipping the waffling in the other one but it just got to much), I think the guys raised some good points, regardless of how nicely you try and put those points anyone above the level of store manager (if they ever watched it) is not going to take to kindly to this, you are basically telling them how to run their business, the idea of just having everything in pounds on the website is certainly a good idea with shipping rates for each country but I am not sure you would able to do that in the stores in other countries, ideally I think quarterly price adjustments would be the way to go (mind you I could never see GW lowering a price for any reason). You know I don't really want to see GW fail either, it's been a massive part of my life since I was a kid, I would however like to them seem "suffer" for recent events, they need to see that yearly price rises do nothing for customer retention and need to find a better new business model, you can see with companies like Mantic that they have learnt from GW mistakes and at the end of the day it really takes a bit more than pretty models to keep your punters happy.

Kilkrazy wrote:

It was 1/3 of the complex kits like Gazzgull Thraka and the Hive Tyrant, and much less on the small models. He expected it to improve. I would expect it to improve. The question is how much it will improve -- 20% in the first three months is the rule of thumb. That would bring the defect rate down to 25% of complex models, which is fairly poor actually.

The Gazzgull and Hive Tyrant models in the display window were both defective in obvious though not in crippling ways. (Though if paying £36 for a kit you should not expect any obvious defects.)

My worry is that the larger kits like Gazzgull and Hive Tyrant are exactly the kind of thing that should work much better in resin than metal due to size and weight.

I suspect the 'real' ratio of miscast to correct cast lies somewhere in between the official party line of 3% and the ~35% for complex models. Maybe something like 15 - 20%? Either way, I expect it to improve and it should improve but not sure that they will get the 20% improvement that you suggest though. A couple of things concern me; a) GW are supposed to be the subject matter experts in this sort of thing, both in house and with FW expertise. If they have this level of miscast then that would suggest genuine problems. Also, b) this isn't a spur of the moment decision - we can safely assume this has been planned and prepared for months, if not years. If the current level of miscast is after months of research and testing, then that is frankly worrying. These sort of problems should have been ironed out long before the range ever made it to public consumption, not to mention the issues with wilting figures in shop windows which is nuts if true. If GW did not do any degree of testing before the launch then it begs the question, why not?

Yes, all new processes are subject to flaws and teething issues and if this were a new start up line like a TV or PC assembly or something like that, then one would certainly expect problems in the first few months as the line shakes itself out. However, we aren't really talking anything like that - it's mini casting, not the most complex process in the world and certainly not for a company with ~30 years experience. It seems all the more strange given that other, smaller companies seem to be able to produce resin and resin/plastic figures without these sort of issues.

I stopped playing Hordes before PP started introducing resin models, did they have any of these quality control issues when they started?

Also do they still have any issues to speak of and do their resin models soften at a temperature similar to the Finecast? All my resin experience is with ForgeWorld, their resin holds up well IMO, I have to use a hair dryer to correct bends and such as hot water just doesn't quite do it for thicker things like Hydra barrels unless you leave it under the running water for like 5 minutes. No melting problems in the car either but I am careful since almost all of my DKoK IG are resin. The quality on Forgeworld can be ultra bad though.