Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

romegamer wrote:So in order to wipe out the mighty imperium of man.. all the demons have to do is make an appearance on each pl;anet, have one bloodletter pop out and say boo to a billion guardsmen, and the gk take care of the rest? . wait what

No. It's not working like that.
Only the most strongest of all Daemons ( Like Ulkair or Daemon from first DoW game ) have that kind of influence. And that influence need time to work ( remember how long it take to citizens of Tartarus to gone insane ). GK are only deployed when BIG daemon incursions are happening, not when their presence is not big enough.

Imperium could somehow get the necron to stop killing them for a while, get the necron to finish building their pylons, thus locking the eot forever, then they can go back to killing eachother!

The Ad Mech is working on reverse engeneering Necron Technology to create those Pylons. Progress is slow, but steady.

Kilkrazy wrote:The Chaos Legions assailed the Eye of Terror OK.

I assume already being nutters shielded them... Ok here is ze plan. We round up all heretics, trick them with an elaborate scheme into thinking we(imperium) are the master and the chaos gods are the ones we should destroy. Send them in, see what happens.

Either way the Inquisition has its work cut out for it.

iproxtaco wrote:It's the extent of the threat. Amongst the military, sure, most of them know of the existence of Warp-spawn, but the actual scale of the threat and it's true nature would demolish the moral of most of The Imperium, hence the secrecy.

It would depend on the size of the incursion.

Personally, I think Armageddon was an exception. The populace and defenders weren't rounded up and executed becuase they were witness to the incursion, it was becuase suddenly they were aware that one of the Arch-traitors of the Imperium, the Traitor Primarch Angron, was alive and kicking. I could understand the Ordos going to great lengths to cover up that, but not every single deamonic incursion.

iproxtaco wrote:
Yes except The Space Wolves. The rest is simply made-up though. Give me one example where the average citizen is allowed to walk away after seeing a Daemonic Incursion or The Grey Knights.

-Sergeant Lukas Bastonne, he and the force he is attached to rescue the planetary governor from the plauged world, plauged masses and Plaugebearers cavorting through the streets.
-The cases of IG and Astartes attacks on the Deamon World in Planetstrike.
-Caiphas Cain, the Tallarn and Valhallan warriors accompanying him are witness to a Slaanesh Greater Deamon. The book also shows that the nature of the Dark Gods is known in the upper echelons of IG command, but only superstitions in the lower ranks.
-Also the incidents where Draigo fights alongside the IG and PDF alone against the deamons, no mention of these forces being rounded up and exterminated is made.
-The Deamon Codex has more examples, in the few cases where they don't end up using Exterminatus.

The simple fact is, the GK can't possibly try to execute all witnesses of a deamonic incursion. They are only a single chapter. The number of regiments that have come into contact with deamon forces, and won, is probably greater than the number of Grey Knights.

You made a good point Emperors Faithful. As I said it is strange that they don't execute every time.

Like I said, there is something more to that than simple:
-Hey, I saw a daemon.
BAM!!!

I hate this part of the lore -.-

Armageddon was probably treated like that because of the sheer number of Guardsmen exposed.


they were from practically everywhere. the risk that they all went bonkers was too great and they had to eradicate them.


in other cases, regiments will remain in the same general area and as such will keep any possable contamination in that area.



you can take a chance a regiment falls and takes out a planet or 2 when they arn't going far, but if it possable that several hundred planets could be contaminated you can't take chances.

I've said it before but the Grey knights need to just paint they armour another bloody colour.

GK: We're here to save you.
Refugee: Yay it's the Ultramarines!
GK: Sure, whatever.

(and that's twice in one day I've made a joke on this so I'll stop there)

Grey Templar wrote:Armageddon was probably treated like that because of the sheer number of Guardsmen exposed.


they were from practically everywhere. the risk that they all went bonkers was too great and they had to eradicate them.


in other cases, regiments will remain in the same general area and as such will keep any possable contamination in that area.



you can take a chance a regiment falls and takes out a planet or 2 when they arn't going far, but if it possable that several hundred planets could be contaminated you can't take chances.

I've already stated my personal hypothesis, that it was the knowledge of the living Deamon Primarch that meant such a drastic cover-up had to be implemented.

Ad Meliora wrote:I've said it before but the Grey knights need to just paint they armour another bloody colour.

GK: We're here to save you.
Refugee: Yay it's the Ultramarines!
GK: Sure, whatever.

(and that's twice in one day I've made a joke on this so I'll stop there)

I did think it was funny though.

How many guardsmen would have actually known it was a Deamon Primarch?


that the traitor primarchs ever even existed is kept under wraps.

why would a guardsmen think "thats gotta be a Primarch" and not just "Thats a really powerful deamon prince"?

Grey Templar wrote:How many guardsmen would have actually known it was a Deamon Primarch?


that the traitor primarchs ever even existed is kept under wraps.

why would a guardsmen think "thats gotta be a Primarch" and not just "Thats a really powerful deamon prince"?

Maybe he told them? Really I think that's how demons do things. It's not so much that they are trying to kill you and wear your skull, they are always whispering too you, telling you things, they might even offer to let you live if you turn over to chaos. Demons can be very insidious.

That's why the GK take such drastic action. You never quite know what guardsman has taken these deals and might be working for chaos.

I might be wrong about all this though. I am not perfect on demons.

well, I doubt the reason was to keep the Deamon Primarch thing under wraps.

I think its more of the deamonic curruption spreading issue then that. and a Deamon primarch would certaintly ooze curruption.



They would probably have excecuted the guardsmen if it had been Kairos Fateweaver. now that would be curruption.

Well that's fething stupid.

GK: Hey thanks for helping us out with that fight against the Daemons.

IG: Hey, no problem, man.

GK: Yeah... so uh, I'm gonna kill you now.

IG: SAY WHAT-

*EXTERMINATUS!!!*

Grey Templar wrote:How many guardsmen would have actually known it was a Deamon Primarch?


that the traitor primarchs ever even existed is kept under wraps.

why would a guardsmen think "thats gotta be a Primarch" and not just "Thats a really powerful deamon prince"?

If I recall the old fluff correctly, Angron made sure his nature was known as he laid waste to the planet.
He even had a massive temple erected in the jungles, the ruins of which still stand.


As for the traitor Primarchs, Horus is definitely common knowledge. Why wouldn't the others be? The common belief though, is that the traitor Primarchs themselves are now long dead.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:well, I doubt the reason was to keep the Deamon Primarch thing under wraps.

I think its more of the deamonic curruption spreading issue then that. and a Deamon primarch would certaintly ooze curruption.

Some sort of 'corruption' is more likely than just preserving knowledge (if this 'corruption, be it physical or mental, could be somehow explained). But it still doesn't explain why some of those that come into contact with deamons are allowed to live, and others aren't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, remembered another case:
-Gaunts Ghosts: In reconquering a Chaos-held world, the IG run into a Greater Deamon. A sanctioned psyker squad does battle with it (the results of which are hazy due to it being from a Guards POV, but the Deamon must have lost sooner or later as the IG were eventually victorious). No one there is killed for being a witness to it.

The Imperium learned a long time ago that if the infection is in the finger, take off the hand.

Guardsman fighting Chaos: :(

Drop pods are seen falling through the clouds: : D

Grey Knights step out: D;

^
Multiple, simoltayneous, defensive, DEEP STRIKES?

Goddard wrote:Guardsman fighting Chaos: :(

Drop pods are seen falling through the clouds: : D

Grey Knights step out: D;

Grey Knights hug the guardsmen and everyone has cookies!

But seriously, is this piece of fluff as bad as bathing in the blood of sisters -.- ?

Nowhere nea it. Still bad though. Generally I think the hate of Matt Ward fluff is over the top, but it's certainly clear he has no real idea what the Imperium is about beyond SPEHS MAHRINS and their MULTIPLE, SIMOLTNUS, DEFENSIVE, DEEP STRIKES.

Really, the Astartes are good, but they're small fry compared to the other forces the Imperium can wield.

The sister thing is a lot more idiot ball holding.

This bit fluff is not that that bad. It would make a lot more sense if the GK where a small black ops unit. They could have a pin point strike kill the demons kill the witness and get out with out killing a ton of their own people, but they are more like a full army. You can't keep an army secret It's like nuking Canada and then trying to cover up the fact that their ever was a Canada. It gets silly quick.

but no one would miss Canada. it would be easy enough to do


thats the last line in 40ks descriptive line, "you will not be missed"

Kilkrazy wrote:The Chaos Legions assailed the Eye of Terror OK.

If by "OK" you mean turned into raving, lunatics with tentacles bent on the destruction of all life then yes. The Eye of Terror is a tear in the fabric of reality in case you didn't know.

We had to save the planet in order to destroy it.

First thing, this piece of flufff isn't a Mat Ward creation, The Grey Knights have been slaughtering witnesses since their inception.
Secondly, the more and more we talk about Mat Ward and his work, the more and more I realize that he is just a careless writer. There are a lot of contradictions, the purity of The Grey Knights being one. This however had been taken a little bit out of context. The problem lies with Mat Ward making blanket assumptions without actually taking existing contradictions into account whilst he's writing.
That's just silly. To be perfectly honest though, there are maybe two examples of witnesses living after Daemonic incursions, and they are in BL books.

There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Yeah the fluff in the GK codex sucks in many ways and that is one of the reasons why it does.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

That's the best explanation for it, which makes it even worse really. I still don't understand why people hate this part so much though, is it too grimdark for you, eh?

iproxtaco wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

That's the best explanation for it, which makes it even worse really. I still don't understand why people hate this part so much though, is it too grimdark for you, eh?

Considering Daemons fight Grey Knights and most of the time they are simply returned to the Warp it kinda seems the only thing they are hiding from is their own people because the daemons are gonna know who they are because they have fought them before... that's the only thing i don't really get.
The rest i'm shiny with.

Like I said before, they hide themselves to try and keep the extent of the threat that Chaos poses, a secret from the majority of the populace, else people will go mad with fear, rebel, and throw their lot in with Chaos to save themselves. They also kill a lot of people to stop Daemonic taint, which in hindsight isn't actually bad at all.