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Vladsimpaler wrote:

Brick wrote:
No one takes 40 man blob squads, Anything above 30 is too unwieldy. And a 30 man blob with 12 PW swings is the same price as an ork mob+Nob with Powerfist. The Ork mob, if it gets the charge, will fething shred the Imperial Guard (as it should) But Imperial Guard have the range advantage and FRFSRF so they can out shoot bs 2 orks any day.

Anyways, if you want to play an aggressive list, you should either be using penal legion or mech vets, because Imperial Guard power blobs simply cannot do the job of a mob (get a lot of cheap shots off and then charge) as well as orks, unless supported by certain special units. They require some special rules to be a feasible choice for guard.

Penal Legion can do what you want, do it well, and as long as you have an officer within commanding range, wont be going anywhere (without the officer stubborn still lets them stay reliable in CC).

If we're talking Lascarbines, then the range is the exact same. In addition, since Lascarbines aren't lasguns they will not benefit from FRFSRF.

Never used Penal Legion when I played IG, I always saw them as a bit overpriced for what they could do. Maybe if I ever start them up again.

terranarc wrote:Hmmm giving dirt cheap combined squad the option to become orks.

I've already gone over why overall the lascarbine will give a squad intent on melee more overall power, due to the finicky nature of a lasguns rapid fire range compared to a flat assault range. Lasguns cant move and shoot farther than 12 inches, whereas these carbines can, and THEN assault into melee if they want. No. That's just not how you play Imperial Guard.

Brick wrote:
I've already gone over why overall the lascarbine will give a squad intent on melee more overall power... That's just not how you play Imperial Guard.

According to you.

The Imperial Guard is literally the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy. How one regiment fights is completely different than another. I.e. the Catachans versus the Cadians or the Elysians. All very different methods of combat. To deny them a weapon just because you personally don't feel they fight that way is ridiculous.

Plus, some Imperial Guard regiments place more focus on close combat/melee anyway.

It would be fitting, then, that there would be different types of weaponry that they would use. The Lascarbine is basically a lasgun in terms of construction, I would imagine that it would be as easy to make.

And I don't get why people keep calling this an option to turn them into Orks. Sure, that's like me taking an M16 and becoming part of the U.S. Army.

The only real similarity between the IG with lascarbines and Orks with shootas is going to be the facts that they are both cheap and that both have assault weapons with the same range.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Brick wrote:
I've already gone over why overall the lascarbine will give a squad intent on melee more overall power... That's just not how you play Imperial Guard.

According to you.

The Imperial Guard is literally the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy. How one regiment fights is completely different than another. I.e. the Catachans versus the Cadians or the Elysians. All very different methods of combat. To deny them a weapon just because you personally don't feel they fight that way is ridiculous.

Plus, some Imperial Guard regiments place more focus on close combat/melee anyway.

It would be fitting, then, that there would be different types of weaponry that they would use. The Lascarbine is basically a lasgun in terms of construction, I would imagine that it would be as easy to make.

And I don't get why people keep calling this an option to turn them into Orks. Sure, that's like me taking an M16 and becoming part of the U.S. Army.

The only real similarity between the IG with lascarbines and Orks with shootas is going to be the facts that they are both cheap and that both have assault weapons with the same range.

Because its just better than the Lasgun because you can move and shoot, which a lasgun cannot do without putting itself in charge range. And on top of that, you can then subsequently charge, which a lasgun ALSO cannot do. Lasguns with FRFSRF pale in comparison simply because it is way less mobile.


And they didn't mass make lascarbines nearly like they did lasguns- only certain units get them. I can see handing them off to veterans, but they already have shotguns.

Honestly, the shotgun IS a lascarbine. Just in a way that makes it useful without completely overshadowing the lasgun.

Brick wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Brick wrote:
I've already gone over why overall the lascarbine will give a squad intent on melee more overall power... That's just not how you play Imperial Guard.

According to you.

The Imperial Guard is literally the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy. How one regiment fights is completely different than another. I.e. the Catachans versus the Cadians or the Elysians. All very different methods of combat. To deny them a weapon just because you personally don't feel they fight that way is ridiculous.

Plus, some Imperial Guard regiments place more focus on close combat/melee anyway.

It would be fitting, then, that there would be different types of weaponry that they would use. The Lascarbine is basically a lasgun in terms of construction, I would imagine that it would be as easy to make.

And I don't get why people keep calling this an option to turn them into Orks. Sure, that's like me taking an M16 and becoming part of the U.S. Army.

The only real similarity between the IG with lascarbines and Orks with shootas is going to be the facts that they are both cheap and that both have assault weapons with the same range.

Because its just better than the Lasgun because you can move and shoot, which a lasgun cannot do without putting itself in charge range. And on top of that, you can then subsequently charge, which a lasgun ALSO cannot do. Lasguns with FRFSRF pale in comparison simply because it is way less mobile.


And they didn't mass make lascarbines nearly like they did lasguns- only certain units get them. I can see handing them off to veterans, but they already have shotguns.

Honestly, the shotgun IS a lascarbine. Just in a way that makes it useful without completely overshadowing the lasgun.

This argument is just going to be circular now, but I'm going to humor myself.

The Elysian Drop Troops make extensive use of the lascarbine, and there's no real reason why it couldn't be mass-produced like the lasgun.

The lascarbine isn't a shotgun. The lascarbine benefits a more aggressive, movement oriented style but doesn't necessarily mean that the guard player is going to get into assault. Now a shotgun means that you have to get into assault range, but you get 2 shots instead of 1.

The problem with the lascarbine is that you're not going to get off nearly as many shots: If your Guard squad with lasguns doesn't move, then they'll get 60 shots instead of 30. In rapid fire range, they'll get 90 and the lascarbines are still stuck with 30.

Sure with the lascarbines you'll then get to assault, but against most enemies you're going 2nd anyway so your troops are going to get massively cut down.

It's a nice midway between the two.