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Kilkrazy wrote:It's a circular argument because you have declared that right wing papers and left wing papers are balanced, and the balance is good. You haven't attempted any analysis for example of the number of papers of each leaning, their quality, print run/popularity, etc.

I didnt say they are balanced, they aren't balanced! But I meant that they inadvertently balance each other, because they both write the stories in their own way.

What im saying is that with "news" whoever is giving you that news is going to have their own agenda. Its not possible to get "news" any other way, unless some..unfeeling cyborgs process and write the stories. The BBC is easly the best news source in my opinion, but even they slip up. You can never trust any news organisation implicitly.

So what im saying, is that if there are left wing papers in existence, then you want right wing papers in existence as well surely? At least under the current system, you get a level playing field, what other solution is there? We cant wind up like China where the government decides what news you should hear!

You mean they off-set each other, rather than balance.

I'm not sure it is possible to have a level playing field. Newspapers have always been published by wealthy people -- The Guardian is a rare exception in that it is published by a trust. You can read about it here.

http://www.gmgplc.co.uk/the-scott-trust/

Certainly there are more right-wing papers than left-wing in the UK.

To Murdoch this is an early Christmas in disguise.

Close down the News of the World, attempt to transfer readership to The Sun.

Same number of papers sold, more or less, with only 'one' publishing house.

mattyrm wrote:What im basically saying is this, if there are ridiculous right wing rags, and ridiculous left wing rags, isnt that alright? Weve got all the bases covered!

I think what you're seeing in this thread is that, to some, this isn't alright. The "ridiculous right wing rags" aren't balanced by the left wing rags, they're offensive and should be driven out of business.

The left wing rags are, presumably, OK.

I've said before: most people hate the idea of democracy and free speech. The ideas only stick around because sometimes the other side wins. Most right-wingers were OK with Bush increasing the power and scope of government because it was their side doing it, and criticized the left for attacking Bush. Now that Obama is the one increasing the power and scope of government, liberals are upset with conservative attacks.

I'd rather a less politcally biased media myself- I find the left-right arguments and split really tedious.

Quick bit of research, the right wing papers in the UK
The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Sunday Telegraph, Daily Express, Sunday Express, The Mail on Sunday, Daily Star, NotW.

Left Wing Papers:
The Gaurdian, The Observer, The Independant, The Independant on Sunday, Daily Mirror, The Morning Star, Sunday Mirror.

There are two centrist papers that I can find and a few raggy populist papers focused on selling scandal above all else. It's clear from this that the skew is further right than left, but to me that's not the issue. The issue is that we can't conceptualize that we should be demanding news without slant. We all want the news with our slant, or to have to check several sources and synthesise our own "truth", and this is okay? I don't think so.

Yeah boss of course in an ideal world we would not want a biased media, but the crux of my argument was that its utterly impossible!

You know what I mean, clearly we dont WANT stories to be in any way misleading, but if a human being is writing a story, then they have their own political ideology.

Which is why i think KK mistook what I was saying. Im not saying bias is good, im just saying, what other alternative is there?! Servitors?

We cant have another system can we? Ergo, its better to have left and right, than just have left or just have right. I hate the Daily Mail, but id be even more appalled if due to a Daily Mirror/Guardian crusade they "banned" right leaning publications. What is an alternative to the way we currently do it?

Cos I cant think of one.. :S

Da Boss wrote:I'd rather a less politcally biased media myself- I find the left-right arguments and split really tedious.

Quick bit of research, the right wing papers in the UK
The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Sunday Telegraph, Daily Express, Sunday Express, The Mail on Sunday, Daily Star, NotW.

Left Wing Papers:
The Gaurdian, The Observer, The Independant, The Independant on Sunday, Daily Mirror, The Morning Star, Sunday Mirror.

There are two centrist papers that I can find and a few raggy populist papers focused on selling scandal above all else. It's clear from this that the skew is further right than left, but to me that's not the issue. The issue is that we can't conceptualize that we should be demanding news without slant. We all want the news with our slant, or to have to check several sources and synthesise our own "truth", and this is okay? I don't think so.

The Times and Independent are much less biased than The Mirror or the Fascistgraph. I would call them centrist.

The Morning Star is a joke, of course.

If we withdraw Sunday "in house" papers from the line-ip, we are left with

Right Wing
The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph, Daily Express, Daily Star, Evening Standard, The Metro

Centrist
The Times, The Independent

Left Wing
The Grauniad, Daily Mirror

I wouldn't mind a ban on them printing outright lies. Or perhaps, like all quality sources of information, having to list their exact source as Freedom of Information. Especially where Science is concerned.

Take the MMR Debacle. A single doctor, just one, not a think tank, hell, I don't believe he was even a research scientist type doctor, suggested there may be a link between this immunisation and autism. Every other doctor consulted said 'nope.....not really'. And then the gutter press got hold of it, and even after said single doctor retracted his comment (and it was a comment, not a paper on the subject) they STILL continuosly printed what was by then an outright lie! And nothing got done. Pathetic.

Did you know, I was confused with a murderer by a British tabloid, and not once, despite repeated demands, manage to give me a straight answer about where they got my information from. At that point, I wasn't a Council Tax payer, nor was I on the electoral role. I am an exceedingly difficult person to find if you don't know my exact address. I think I need to go read up on the Data Protection act on this one actually.

Dont worry lads, ive sorted it.

Finally, unbiased news for all!

Mr Mystery wrote:I wouldn't mind a ban on them printing outright lies. Or perhaps, like all quality sources of information, having to list their exact source as Freedom of Information. Especially where Science is concerned.

Take the MMR Debacle. A single doctor, just one, not a think tank, hell, I don't believe he was even a research scientist type doctor, suggested there may be a link between this immunisation and autism. Every other doctor consulted said 'nope.....not really'. And then the gutter press got hold of it, and even after said single doctor retracted his comment (and it was a comment, not a paper on the subject) they STILL continuosly printed what was by then an outright lie! And nothing got done. Pathetic.

Did you know, I was confused with a murderer by a British tabloid, and not once, despite repeated demands, manage to give me a straight answer about where they got my information from. At that point, I wasn't a Council Tax payer, nor was I on the electoral role. I am an exceedingly difficult person to find if you don't know my exact address. I think I need to go read up on the Data Protection act on this one actually.

No smoke without fire, I always say...


Just kidding.

But I was meant to have killed my Dad, and he's not even dead!

The perfect crime?

Mr Mystery wrote:But I was meant to have killed my Dad, and he's not even dead!

That's exactly the sort of thing that a murderer would say.

Oh lordy...he's applied The Daily Mail Defence!

I'm screwed!

Going back to right wing papers, are we really calling the Daily Star political? There can't be more than 50 words on each page.

It's generally reckoned to be a newspaper with a political stance.

I wouldn't know personally as I never read any papers except Le Monde, Asahi Shimbun, Allgemeine Zeitung and the International Herald Tribune.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1406429/Pottergate-we-publish-the-secret-tapes.html

..err... WTF ?!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/2011/07/11/phone-hacking-9-11-victims-may-have-had-mobiles-tapped-by-news-of-the-world-reporters-115875-23262694/

claims News of the World reporters hacked the phones of 9/11 victims.

... This, presumably, would be the "worse to follow" they mentioned last week.

Harry Potter role-play...

If this is the case that chap needs to acquire a spine. Perhaps from Sergei's Used Spine Emporium...

What an excellent time for the 9/11 hacking rumour to come out. 10 year anniversary and all that.

I would be surprised if anything worse than this comes out... actually, no, i wouldn't.

Is there a reason why Rebekah Brooks hasn't been arrested when Coulson has? Are they just accepting the 'I was an incompetent biznitch' angle?

reds8n wrote:

... This, presumably, would be the "worse to follow" they mentioned last week.

Going with no, probably this...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/07/11/phone-hacking-news-of-the-world.html

More newspapers in the News Corp organization linked with the same sort of behavior.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8630545/Shareholders-sue-News-Corp-for-failing-to-take-early-action-on-phone-hacking-scandal.html

.hmm... looking more and more like this could be increasingly expensive.

Da Boss wrote:I'd rather a less politcally biased media myself- I find the left-right arguments and split really tedious.

Quick bit of research, the right wing papers in the UK
The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Sunday Telegraph, Daily Express, Sunday Express, The Mail on Sunday, Daily Star, NotW.

Left Wing Papers:
The Gaurdian, The Observer, The Independant, The Independant on Sunday, Daily Mirror, The Morning Star, Sunday Mirror.

There are two centrist papers that I can find and a few raggy populist papers focused on selling scandal above all else. It's clear from this that the skew is further right than left, but to me that's not the issue. The issue is that we can't conceptualize that we should be demanding news without slant. We all want the news with our slant, or to have to check several sources and synthesise our own "truth", and this is okay? I don't think so.

Define truth. I'll go get a book and a good coffee while you think about it. It may take a while.

"The truth is a three edged sword. Your truth, my truth, and what lies between." Old Vorlon saying
"Hurry up and die." Old Shadows saying

Looks like parliament are going to pass a motion tomorrow saying Murdoch should drop his BSkyB bid. It won't be legally binding, but still, the UK is about to metaphorically tell Murdoch to get stuffed

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-11-2011/have-no-fear--england-s-here?xrs=share_copy

Absolutely hilarious

also a Brilliant wonderful life parody with murdoch

purplefood wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:They should all be charged with perverting the course of justice and subject to the maximum penalty.

The hacking of that missing girl's mobile phone and the active deletion of messages on it by these bastards resulted in a belief that she might still be alive and doing the deleting herself.

Not only is this ghoulish and perverted and contemptible, it has directed the course of murder investigations.


They MUST be jailed for this.

This...

Agreed....
Anyone that hacks is a criminal unless if it is to protect the free peoples! seeing this isn't....