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htj wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Wait, that makes no sense at all whatsoever. How does nakedness make you a better fighter?

"Khorne cares not from whom the blood flows, as long as it flows."

Admittedly, getting stabbed and shot to death is going to produce a lower net of blood for old Skully, but hey-ho.

True, true, but there also lies the problem that, if the sisters were going to fight naked (a la Celt or Norse Berzerker style) they would fight naked. And trust me, it would be anything but pretty. These costumes are clearly picked for sex appeal, rather than any disregard for danger.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

htj wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Wait, that makes no sense at all whatsoever. How does nakedness make you a better fighter?

"Khorne cares not from whom the blood flows, as long as it flows."

Admittedly, getting stabbed and shot to death is going to produce a lower net of blood for old Skully, but hey-ho.

True, true, but there also lies the problem that, if the sisters were going to fight naked (a la Celt or Norse Berzerker style) they would fight naked. And trust me, it would be anything but pretty. These costumes are clearly picked for sex appeal, rather than any disregard for danger.

Herein lies the problem I have with roughly 90% of female miniatures. It's one of the reasons I play Sisters, their armour doesn't bear their midriff and they haven't got their baps out. Quite refreshingly, they look like women in armour who can fight. Er, Sisters Repentia notwithstanding.

Sisters armor STILL bears the marks of oversexualization (they basically wear their underwear outside their armor, IE corsets and bras/boobcups), but that's a topic for another topic, as it were.

Melissia wrote:Sisters armor STILL bears the marks of oversexualization (they basically wear their underwear outside their armor, IE corsets and bras/boobcups), but that's a topic for another topic, as it were.

Yes indeed, but it's better than most. But you're right, let's not digress.

Melissia wrote:Sisters do no just reject pleasure or some other nonsense, they embrace humility and reject excess.

That's the thing - they don't just avoid excess, they avoid it entirely. Which is what makes them so strong and nigh-incorruptable, but (imho) also opens up the first gap in their defence once they actually do reach the breaking point.

As we can see from Codex material on the case of Miriael Sabathiel, a Sister's everyday duty is obviously not sufficient to make her fall to ANY Chaos god. Whatever happened to Miriael, the Emperor's Children did it. And they belong to Slaanesh. Whilst something similar may have pushed Miriael to any other Chaos god were she just captured by a different band of CSM, this one canon example does give Slaanesh a head start and should not be discarded just because it fits into some cliché, for so do lots of other things in 40k.

And one could say that there is one sensation the Sisters do experience in excess: Pain.

Melissia wrote:Their very PURPOSE is tied in to this, as one of the reasons they were allowed to exist as the Ecclesiarchy's military arm is because they are to regulate the church to prevent this from happening to the church itself.

Well, to be fair, they don't police sexual activities but deviance from the Creed and a breach of whatever rules the Ecclesiarchy imposes on their clergy or itself (such as some Apostate Cardinal violating the Decree Passive).

Lynata wrote:And one could say that there is one sensation the Sisters do experience in excess: Pain.

How so? Do you mean through battle?

htj wrote:How so? Do you mean through battle?

Self-mortification in their convents. Be it through voluntary whipping, penance or rituals. Shows up in all canon material.

"Prayer cleanses the soul, but pain cleanses the body."
- Confessor Ganinimus

I believe one bit of fluff even described a Sister Superior writing with a barbed pen because it hurts, though I can't recall the exact source. It was some ministory-box like the ones you often see in the Codices.

Would likely apply to the Repentia more than to a regular Sister. I do not think it inconceivable that they get subjected to ritual torture, both to cleanse their souls as well as a means to "break" them battle-ready before a dominatrix dual-wielding powered electricity cables drives them into martyrdom.

They don't feel pain for the sake of pain. That's the thing about Slaanesh-- his servants do things simply for the sake of doing something new and exciting.

Lynata wrote:I believe one bit of fluff even described a Sister Superior writing with a barbed pen because it hurts, though I can't recall the exact source. It was some ministory-box like the ones you often see in the Codices.

I recall this piece of fluff. In fact, the Sister Superior corrected the Imperial orderly chap when he saw her use it. She specifically rejected the 'whips on naked flesh and cold stone floors' that he assumed about the Sisters and explained that the pain was barbed to remind her that information was extremely powerful, and should only be passed on when absolutely necessary.

Melissia wrote:They don't feel pain for the sake of pain.

Quite right. But they do feel it. Masochism exists in the real world just as it does in 40k.

Officially, the Sisterhood likely wouldn't condone it for what it is (and I believe their methods of internal control are quite effective), but this does not exclude the possibility of some of them feeling that way. The ones affected may simply explain it away as "religious ecstasy", and their leaders can do pretty much what they want (the extreme sense of loyalty and obedience within the Sororitas is a strength as well as another weakness, depending on the circumstance).

That's also how that RL lesbian abbess explained her feelings when she slept with another Sister, after all.

htj: Thanks! Do you recall which book it was in? I wanted to read up on it for a long time, as the last time I saw it was even before I started collecting SoB or getting this interested in their fluff.

iproxtaco wrote:

Oh man, once every month, "Blood for the Blood God" takes on an entirely different meaning.

Lynata wrote:Quite right. But they do feel it. Masochism exists in the real world just as it does in 40k.

Masochism is a flaw which would likely put a Repentia on a suicide mission to prevent corruption in the first place.

The leaders are the ones least likely to turn, themselves. They've seen true miracles by that point, learned true evidence of the Emperor's divinity, etc.

All of this still stinks of a perverted teenaged sexual fantasy.

Melissia wrote:What you described looks more like a teenaged sexual power fantasy than anything regarding the Sisters fluff. Repentia don't "live to kill", they live to DIE. The entire purpose behind being a Repentia is the knowledge that they will die in battle and redeem themselves through the glory of death in the Emperor's service.

Actually, please read my post again. I did not say Repentia "Live to kill". I said a Khornate worshipper lives to kill, and that a Slaanesh worshipper brought to him via violence might "Love to kill". I also did not describe a teenaged sexual power fantasy, I described how Slaanesh seduces and corrupts people according to his/her fluff. If you have a problem with that, it's less to do with what I wrote and more to do with a personal dislike you have for Slaanesh.

squidhills wrote:

Melissia wrote:What you described looks more like a teenaged sexual power fantasy than anything regarding the Sisters fluff. Repentia don't "live to kill", they live to DIE. The entire purpose behind being a Repentia is the knowledge that they will die in battle and redeem themselves through the glory of death in the Emperor's service.

Actually, please read my post again. I did not say Repentia "Live to kill". I said a Khornate worshipper lives to kill, and that a Slaanesh worshipper brought to him via violence might "Love to kill". I also did not describe a teenaged sexual power fantasy, I described how Slaanesh seduces and corrupts people according to his/her fluff. If you have a problem with that, it's less to do with what I wrote and more to do with a personal dislike you have for Slaanesh.

Slaanesh is the prince of EXCESS, not of sex. Sex is merely one tool through which excess is accomplished, the sex is not important. Someone having sex is not feeding Slaanesh. Somene enjoying pain is not feeding Slaanesh. Nor are they liable to TURN to Slaanesh. It is not pleasure that matters, it is the EXCESS.

Melissia wrote:Masochism is a flaw which would likely put a Repentia on a suicide mission to prevent corruption in the first place.

Perhaps. Or perhaps not.

Pain is promoted by the Ecclesiarchy as a means of purifying one's soul as well as sharing in the Emperor's sacrifice. Embracing that with open arms may just as well be met with approval. It would simply not be interpreted as a means of receiving pleasure, but mistaken as great devotion. That's just how fanatism works.

Melissia wrote:The leaders are the ones least likely to turn, themselves. They've seen true miracles by that point, learned true evidence of the Emperor's divinity, etc.

Any Sororitas is unlikely to turn. Either way, Miriael was a Veteran Sister Superior - the "officers" who help a Canoness run the Order.

Melissia wrote:All of this still stinks of a perverted teenaged sexual fantasy.

Most things about Slaanesh do. Doesn't mean they don't have a point, though. That's what makes corruption by Slaanesh seem so much more realistic - because our modern day society already reflects much of it.

Generally, I like to look for logical reasons for why something in this fictional setting is like it is rather than denouncing it, for in the end, I still have to accept it as canon. In Miriael's case I think it is pretty easy to find an explanation, though.

Regards to that fluff, Lynata, I read it in WD when they released the first SoB models. I can't recall if it was reprinted in the 2nd ed. Codex, though. I'll see if I can track down the issue number for you.

Lynata: I repeat myself:

Melissia wrote:Slaanesh is the prince of EXCESS, not of sex. Sex is merely one tool through which excess is accomplished, the sex is not important. Someone having sex is not feeding Slaanesh. Somene enjoying pain is not feeding Slaanesh. Nor are they liable to TURN to Slaanesh. It is not pleasure that matters, it is the EXCESS.

The sole and ONLY reason people want Sisters to turn to Slaanesh over all other Chaos Gods has nothing to do with logic. At least not logic coming from an organ above the neck.

Melissia wrote:

Lynata wrote:Quite right. But they do feel it. Masochism exists in the real world just as it does in 40k.

Masochism is a flaw which would likely put a Repentia on a suicide mission to prevent corruption in the first place.

The leaders are the ones least likely to turn, themselves. They've seen true miracles by that point, learned true evidence of the Emperor's divinity, etc.

All of this still stinks of a perverted teenaged sexual fantasy.

PMSL..... Ok ok as op I belive its my turn lol, the topic started because my gf (shes 22) is into the gothic side of 40k aka spikes, dark colours, and also was thinking of a female based army, and as sisters look gothy (for lack of a better word) would be a perfect start.

My intention with this post was to guage peoples reaction to an actual sisters army painted dark and goth colours and adorned with chaos items and such, not to start a roit over a back story.

The main reason I asked I because neither of us have read any sisters fluff, so im happy with an "its possible" for sob to turn to chaos but on the argument thats going on here im not getting into lmao.

Cheers guys.

dreadanant wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Lynata wrote:Quite right. But they do feel it. Masochism exists in the real world just as it does in 40k.

Masochism is a flaw which would likely put a Repentia on a suicide mission to prevent corruption in the first place.

The leaders are the ones least likely to turn, themselves. They've seen true miracles by that point, learned true evidence of the Emperor's divinity, etc.

All of this still stinks of a perverted teenaged sexual fantasy.

PMSL..... Ok ok as op I belive its my turn lol, the topic started because my gf (shes 22) is into the gothic side of 40k aka spikes, dark colours, and also was thinking of a female based army, and as sisters look gothy (for lack of a better word) would be a perfect start.

My intention with this post was to guage peoples reaction to an actual sisters army painted dark and goth colours and adorned with chaos items and such, not to start a roit over a back story.

The main reason I asked I because neither of us have read any sisters fluff, so im happy with an "its possible" for sob to turn to chaos but on the argument thats going on here im not getting into lmao.

Cheers guys.

It's more like "It's possible but very unlikely"

It's also theoretically psosible to have Orks outfitted in Space Marine power armor, but that's similarly unlikely.


But far, FAR more awesome.

Meh itl do lol
And melissa orks look do they not lol.

Melissia wrote:The sole and ONLY reason people want Sisters to turn to Slaanesh over all other Chaos Gods has nothing to do with logic. At least not logic coming from an organ above the neck.

Sadly true. Chaos Sisters are going to ever be suggested, but it's always, always Slaanesh, and it's always just an excuse to sex-up some miniatures. Well, nearly always, looks like it might be different in this case. But it gets old really fast.

@dreadanant: Aren't Sister gothicy enough without being Chaos? They tend to be in dark colours either way. And they'll attract less nerd rage from people like me.

Melissia wrote:Slaanesh is the prince of EXCESS, not of sex. Sex is merely one tool through which excess is accomplished, the sex is not important. Someone having sex is not feeding Slaanesh. Somene enjoying pain is not feeding Slaanesh. Nor are they liable to TURN to Slaanesh. It is not pleasure that matters, it is the EXCESS.

Slaanesh is called "The Prince of Pleasure"... Pleasure does not specifically mention excess. In fact, I am not familliar with a title for Slaanesh that mentions "excess", but I could be overlooking one.

Pleasure is... well, pleasure. If you enjoy something, then it can serve as a weakness for Slaanesh to exploit. If someone enjoys inflicting pain on themselves, well... If someone enjoys inflicting pain on other people, well... If they enjoy killing... etc, etc, etc.

It's not strictly about sex, and I made that point twice now, already. A lot of Slaanesh players do focus solely on the sexual aspect of Slaanesh, but that's due to their own level of maturity (or immaturity) and the fact that Slaanesh's own damn fluff mentions sex so much. Yes, GW are trying to downplay it with the latest batch of Codexes and models (fugly Daemonettes, anyone?) but you can't erase 20+ years of fluff that reads a little too much like "Porn for the Porn God!" in one edition.

Now let me turn this on its head for a moment. You reject my assertion that Slaanesh would be most likely to corrupt a Sister. Fine. Please offer a hypothesis as to why Nurgle or Tzeentch would be more likely than Slaanesh to successfully corrupt a Sororitas. I'm not trying to be petty or troll you. I am honestly interested in what reasons you have to make the statements that you have made thus far.

Thats not the case, she seen my csm army but doesmnt like the look of the basic csm pa so I sugested the already gothy sob and thats where the stems. Theres not gunna be any boobs hanging out or any thing geez lol people need to chill.
+ 1 squidhills

squidhills wrote:

Melissia wrote:Slaanesh is the prince of EXCESS, not of sex. Sex is merely one tool through which excess is accomplished, the sex is not important. Someone having sex is not feeding Slaanesh. Somene enjoying pain is not feeding Slaanesh. Nor are they liable to TURN to Slaanesh. It is not pleasure that matters, it is the EXCESS.

Slaanesh is called "The Prince of Pleasure"... Pleasure does not specifically mention excess. In fact, I am not familliar with a title for Slaanesh that mentions "excess", but I could be overlooking one.

Pleasure is... well, pleasure. If you enjoy something, then it can serve as a weakness for Slaanesh to exploit. If someone enjoys inflicting pain on themselves, well... If someone enjoys inflicting pain on other people, well... If they enjoy killing... etc, etc, etc.

It's not strictly about sex, and I made that point twice now, already. A lot of Slaanesh players do focus solely on the sexual aspect of Slaanesh, but that's due to their own level of maturity (or immaturity) and the fact that Slaanesh's own damn fluff mentions sex so much. Yes, GW are trying to downplay it with the latest batch of Codexes and models (fugly Daemonettes, anyone?) but you can't erase 20+ years of fluff that reads a little too much like "Porn for the Porn God!" in one edition.

Now let me turn this on its head for a moment. You reject my assertion that Slaanesh would be most likely to corrupt a Sister. Fine. Please offer a hypothesis as to why Nurgle or Tzeentch would be more likely than Slaanesh to successfully corrupt a Sororitas. I'm not trying to be petty or troll you. I am honestly interested in what reasons you have to make the statements that you have made thus far.

Slannesh is specifically the god of excess. Sex is the most common aspect but it can be anything...
Music, food, pain, making things...

Melissia wrote:The sole and ONLY reason people want Sisters to turn to Slaanesh over all other Chaos Gods has nothing to do with logic. At least not logic coming from an organ above the neck.

Of course this will be the most popular reason. Maybe even the only one - there's no way to be certain on this. But we are not discussing player motivations. The in-universe facts are as GW has spelled them out, and they can be explained using real life logic.

Nobody demands that everyone has to like it.

dreadanant wrote:Thats not the case, she seen my csm army but doesmnt like the look of the basic csm pa so I sugested the already gothy sob and thats where the stems. Theres not gunna be any boobs hanging out or any thing geez lol people need to chill.
+ 1 squidhills

It's not the boobs people are annoyed about. It's the fluff...
I don't know why they have to be Chaos though since SOB are already pretty damn grimdark...

purplefood wrote:

dreadanant wrote:Thats not the case, she seen my csm army but doesmnt like the look of the basic csm pa so I sugested the already gothy sob and thats where the stems. Theres not gunna be any boobs hanging out or any thing geez lol people need to chill.
+ 1 squidhills

It's not the boobs people are annoyed about. It's the fluff...
I don't know why they have to be Chaos though since SOB are already pretty damn grimdark...

Yes, this too. It's meant to be extremely rare for even a single Sister to succumb to Chaos. An entire army of them is like fingernails on a chalkboard for fans of this particular part of their background. Which is most SoB players.

purplefood wrote:I don't know why they have to be Chaos though since SOB are already pretty damn grimdark...

That's true.

Nothing wrong with a Slaaneshi SoB having a boob hanging out (as someone else has pointed out, it would be "slaanesh-y") - but there shouldn't be a perceived need to have an SoB army go Chaos in the first place. And I agree that an entire army sounds a bit overkill, from a fluff PoV (the best Chaos Sister conversion I've seen so far was a single mini in a normal CSM HQ).

Perhaps dreadanant could show her some of the normal SoB fluff and see if she likes the Sisters as they are? Then both of you have all the more reason to fight each other's armies.

squidhills wrote:Now let me turn this on its head for a moment. You reject my assertion that Slaanesh would be most likely to corrupt a Sister. Fine. Please offer a hypothesis as to why Nurgle or Tzeentch would be more likely than Slaanesh to successfully corrupt a Sororitas. I'm not trying to be petty or troll you. I am honestly interested in what reasons you have to make the statements that you have made thus far.

Tzeentch instills hope and a desire to change the system because it is harming the faithful, because it is inefficient, because it is losing a war, etc. In success their minds become more open to other changes, which leads to Tzeentch. In failure they despair, which if not rectified leads to Nurgle.

I think Khorne is most likely. A progression like thus: "Seek battle, seek victory, seek to spill the blood of the enemies of the Emperor. Become the best warrior possible in His name, and destroy all those in your path. Set a fire to your enemies, litter the ground with their fiery corpses, and put their still-burning skulls on pikes as a warning to future heretics, to tell all the world of what will happen to them should they also betray. Blood for the Emperor, skulls for the Golden Throne! Death on the battlefield in service to the Skull Thro... I mean Golden Throne is the best reward! ... why are you looking at me like that?"