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warboss wrote:

BuFFo wrote:Need to keep all you marine kids happy, right?

The Blood Angel ruling doesn't seem particularly beneficial to marines seeing as how the dread is ruled as destroyed. Are there any active issues with Blood Angels that they didn't address yet or that have crept up more recently? I haven't really played much 40k this year and don't frequent YMDC much any more.

Well, I apologize. I was not clear with which ruling I was referring to.

I did not mean that FAQ ruling with the Storm Raven.

GreyHamster wrote:

warboss wrote:

BuFFo wrote:Need to keep all you marine kids happy, right?

The Blood Angel ruling doesn't seem particularly beneficial to marines seeing as how the dread is ruled as destroyed. Are there any active issues with Blood Angels that they didn't address yet or that have crept up more recently? I haven't really played much 40k this year and don't frequent YMDC much any more.

He appears to be upset that a 20point upgrade no longer could be interpreted to be able to remove multiple whole Grey Knight units instantly, unreliable as it may be.

Well, I was not clear, but this is incorrect. I never had an issue with the CoM only affecting one GK model in a unit. Anything more than that would be broken beyond belief.

My issue is that the CoM does NOTHING to a psyker model (GK vehicles) "just cause". Actually, no reason is even given, not even a fluff one, so there is literally no "just cause".

The CoD, which is meant to harm psykers, does nothing against a psyker?

Alpharius wrote:blaktoof - all of those particular dead horses haven been beaten straight out of this reality. I think it is time to move on...

I've always liked your name. I acquiesce.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:For playing such a top tier army, dark eldar players sure like to whine about the marginally reduced effectiveness of a wargear item that they weren't taking anyway. It's very unfortunate that it can't vaporize six land raiders or a full paladin squad at the same time, i'm sure that went right along with it's intention as a wargear item designed to assassinate IC psykers

It's because alot of DE players resent marines since they kept getting updates when it took 11 years to get 1 update. Which I fully understand I would just like to see an MEQ be on the downside of one of these faqs.

Yeah, but you have your book and models. It's time to let it die.

And yet still on the downside of the faq...

Marthike wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:For playing such a top tier army, dark eldar players sure like to whine about the marginally reduced effectiveness of a wargear item that they weren't taking anyway. It's very unfortunate that it can't vaporize six land raiders or a full paladin squad at the same time, i'm sure that went right along with it's intention as a wargear item designed to assassinate IC psykers

It's because alot of DE players resent marines since they kept getting updates when it took 11 years to get 1 update. Which I fully understand I would just like to see an MEQ be on the downside of one of these faqs.

and having something game breaking is just stupid. it defeats the purpose of marine hate, now its xeno hate

Right because the DE having something that is never taken that can beat an army...man I wish the GK could just beat a single army...oh wait Chaos Daemons.

Look don't get me wrong. I knew this was gonna happen and I knew there was nothing I could do about it. I still have a marine army...BT, all their FAQ did was bring them up to speed which is fine. I don't like it when marines sometimes don't get to be on the other end and also armies like GK that get crazy stuff like this, rad grenades, jokerro, etc. Oh wait thats because the writter of the GK cod...ooohhh don't want to start that hate thread again.

BuFFo wrote:

My issue is that the CoM does NOTHING to a psyker model (GK vehicles) "just cause". Actually, no reason is even given, not even a fluff one, so there is literally no "just cause".

The CoD, which is meant to harm psykers, does nothing against a psyker?

Actually, if you read the GK book, the vehicles are only Psykers for the purpose of using their powers or when facing a Psychic Hood, they don't actually HAVE the Psyker rule. So it's not a Psyker for the purposes of CoM.

However, the Furioso Librarian IS a Psyker, which is why Psychic vehicles are even mentioned. So, basically, you're complaining about it not affecting one model type in one army.

BuFFo wrote:
My issue is that the CoM does NOTHING to a psyker model (GK vehicles) "just cause". Actually, no reason is even given, not even a fluff one, so there is literally no "just cause".

Grey Knight vehicles aren't Psykers, so I guess you have no issues. (except against Furioso Dreadnoughts which are the only Psyker vehicles).

Kirasu wrote:
Thats not what it says since Pyskers do not have the Brotherhood of Pyskers rule. It says they ALL take LD tests, which means theyre all different pyskers unlike say GK units which are 1 pysker

No, the rules for Henchmen Psykers say:

"All psykers in the unit are treated as a single psyker for the purposes of psychic tests, etc..."


There is no limitation placed on that 'etc', which means that Henchmen psykers are treated as a single psyker for everything. So a Henchmen psyker unit that is within range of a Crucible will take a single test (since they count as a single psyker) and then if they fail they'd all be removed (again since they all count as that single psyker).

This is different from the Brotherhood of Psykers special rules which, although it also notes that the whole unit counts as a single psyker, further gives an exemption that things which attack psykers only affect a single model. Since Henchmen psykers don't have this exemption, the entire lot of them are removed should they fail their single Crucible test, just like all the models suffer a Perils attack when one is rolled up.

The rules for Psychic Battle squads say they count as a single psyker only for the purposes of using a psychic power, so in the case of a crucible attack, each of them would have to roll separately.


So although the three rules certainly aren't consistent, they are fairly clear IMHO about how they're resolved. As a recap:

• Grey Knights units with Brotherhood of Psykers special rule: Count as a single psyker in all regards, so make a single test if Crucible is within range of their unit. If they fail, only a single model is removed per their Brotherhood of Psykers special rule.
• Grey Knight Hemchmen Psykers: Count as a single psyker in all regards (the big 'etc'), so therefore make a single test if Crucible is within range of them. However, since they don't have the Brotherhood of Psykers special rule, if the test is failed, all the models in the unit (the single psyker) would be removed.
• Imperial Guard Psyker Battle Squad: Count as a single psyker ONLY for using powers, so would all test separately if Crucible is within range and any failed would be removed individually.

Why is it that Craftworld Eldar is the only non-imperial race to get decent psychic defenses?

Dark Eldar are supposed to have a special love of killing/capturing psykers, but all their anti-psyker stuff is one use only and has only a small chance of working.

All psykers in the unit are treated as a single psyker for the purposes of psychic tests, etc..."

Makes sense, I didnt go read the codex so I forgot about the "etc" part. Oh well there goes my dreams of a culexus assassin having a purpose

Kirasu wrote:

All psykers in the unit are treated as a single psyker for the purposes of psychic tests, etc..."

Makes sense, I didnt go read the codex so I forgot about the "etc" part. Oh well there goes my dreams of a culexus assassin having a purpose

Seer Councils give him a shot per member.

I meant a consistent every game purpose like having him surrounded by 24 pyskers instead of relying on someone else having a seer council..

BuFFo wrote:

Well, I was not clear, but this is incorrect. I never had an issue with the CoM only affecting one GK model in a unit. Anything more than that would be broken beyond belief.

My issue is that the CoM does NOTHING to a psyker model (GK vehicles) "just cause". Actually, no reason is even given, not even a fluff one, so there is literally no "just cause".

The CoD, which is meant to harm psykers, does nothing against a psyker?

In 40k, the vehicles have already been established to give some sort of psychic protection (No getting Doom of Mal-ed while in vehicles is explained this way etc.)
The rule which makes vehicles psykers is "psychic pilot" Aka, the pilot is the psyker, therefore he is given protection by the vehicle itself just as any other unit inside a vehicle is protected from psychic abilities.

That's the closest to a fluff explanation as I can get, personally I don't see how Doom of Malantai doesn't cause models to run out of vehicles screaming in terror, but at least GW is consistent in it's Vehicles > Everything else logic....right?
Hmm...

lucasbuffalo wrote:

BuFFo wrote:

Well, I was not clear, but this is incorrect. I never had an issue with the CoM only affecting one GK model in a unit. Anything more than that would be broken beyond belief.

My issue is that the CoM does NOTHING to a psyker model (GK vehicles) "just cause". Actually, no reason is even given, not even a fluff one, so there is literally no "just cause".

The CoD, which is meant to harm psykers, does nothing against a psyker?

In 40k, the vehicles have already been established to give some sort of psychic protection (No getting Doom of Mal-ed while in vehicles is explained this way etc.)
The rule which makes vehicles psykers is "psychic pilot" Aka, the pilot is the psyker, therefore he is given protection by the vehicle itself just as any other unit inside a vehicle is protected from psychic abilities.

That's the closest to a fluff explanation as I can get, personally I don't see how Doom of Malantai doesn't cause models to run out of vehicles screaming in terror, but at least GW is consistent in it's Vehicles > Everything else logic....right?
Hmm...

But wait if I remember right psychic hoods can still be used against psychics in a transport. Which I thought was the reason why all the nid players were up in a roar about since shadow of the warp doesn't. So this just proves another incident where marines are favored over any other army. So how is it that human tech can penetrate armored vehicles but not the all impossing power of the hive mind?

It's sad that when a FAQ comes out it is a buff for imperial players but a nerf for xenos (most of the time) while I am loving the fact that GW is paying more attention but at the same time their not play testing and usually they end up buffing armies that really didn't need it or answering questions that are pretty plain.

Luthon1234 wrote:
It's sad that when a FAQ comes out it is a buff for imperial players but a nerf for xenos (most of the time) while I am loving the fact that GW is paying more attention but at the same time their not play testing and usually they end up buffing armies that really didn't need it or answering questions that are pretty plain.

The FAQ is not a 'buff', it simply is following the rules printed in the codex. Read the rules for psychic pilot and you'll see that a Grey Knight vehicle ONLY counts as being a psyker when casting a power and in regards to psychic hoods. This ruling has nothing to do with fluff (as far as I can tell) and everything to do with the rules as written in the codex.

If you have issues with the codex, then that's one thing, but don't get the hatred mixed up here...the FAQ answer in this case was just following the rules.

Luthon1234 wrote:

lucasbuffalo wrote:

BuFFo wrote:

Well, I was not clear, but this is incorrect. I never had an issue with the CoM only affecting one GK model in a unit. Anything more than that would be broken beyond belief.

My issue is that the CoM does NOTHING to a psyker model (GK vehicles) "just cause". Actually, no reason is even given, not even a fluff one, so there is literally no "just cause".

The CoD, which is meant to harm psykers, does nothing against a psyker?

In 40k, the vehicles have already been established to give some sort of psychic protection (No getting Doom of Mal-ed while in vehicles is explained this way etc.)
The rule which makes vehicles psykers is "psychic pilot" Aka, the pilot is the psyker, therefore he is given protection by the vehicle itself just as any other unit inside a vehicle is protected from psychic abilities.

That's the closest to a fluff explanation as I can get, personally I don't see how Doom of Malantai doesn't cause models to run out of vehicles screaming in terror, but at least GW is consistent in it's Vehicles > Everything else logic....right?
Hmm...

But wait if I remember right psychic hoods can still be used against psychics in a transport. Which I thought was the reason why all the nid players were up in a roar about since shadow of the warp doesn't. So this just proves another incident where marines are favored over any other army. So how is it that human tech can penetrate armored vehicles but not the all impossing power of the hive mind?

If I'm not mistaken, psychic hoods are the only thing that effects something inside a vehicle, and it's not an attack, it's defensive. The reason for this is, most powers used by psykers inside vehicles usually have external targets, meaning that the hood is able to shut down the power as it outside of the vehicle...
Again, just trying my hand if you want a fluff reason for everything.
Edit: Note, this logic doesn't really apply to things like guiding a unit, so just imagine the hood's success as affecting the bullets themselves, etc. The game has lots of things that don't make real sense fluff wise (Invulnerable saves from dodging used against large blasts, things that ignore invul saves working against things that dodge just to name two I was thinking about recently.)

Perkustin wrote:I think 'loose' as opposed to 'Lose' is some sort of meme. I initially thought the OP was being cute. Nice to see it was an honest mistake.

Agree that the crucible should have some effect on psychic vehicles.

"Loose" is what happens when you run backwards naked through a field of Warding Staves.