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I may be incorrect, but I believe the champ is the person in your team who got the most points, or 20 points in the previous round.

Congrats on 3rd place. Hopefully next year will be 1st.

yakface wrote:
What is the Champion again?

Before the pairing process begins, the team captain select one army to be the team "champion". The is hidden from your opponents and gets matched up against your opponent's champion. This is one way to add a bit of mystery to the final pairings because you do not know what teams they have still available.





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Here is the result sheet from Team USA's one loss to the ETC 40K winner Germany:


Let's break this down, and you can see where it went wrong.

Pairing #1
The USA starts and put forth Jon and his Grey Knights. The Germans counter with Witchhunters. Not to bad of a match up for Jon, but he is at a disadvantage as you would expect and ends up losing 8-12. Not too bad for being our first out the door.

Pairing #2
Then the Germans put out there Grey Knights player and the US counters with Nick's (Darkwynn) Black Templar. This is where things get out of whack for the US. Nick has 2 foot slogging Terminator squads that deep-strike as well as drop pods against an anti-deep strike army. Not only that, but I have fought BT terminators with my GK terminators before and GK terminators will crush them. They pop the Sanctuary psychic power and the BT go last. Add in that they get 3 attacks each, and some hammerhands and you are in trouble. Not to mention that you are deepstriking so far away that they can shoot you down as you advance. Nick loses 6-14. This is hurts because we get to choose the match up and we should win those.

Pairing #3
We put out Orks, and they put out Chaos Space Marines. We lose 6-14.

Pairing #4
They put out their Blood Angels and we counter with IG. We lose a close one at 9-11. Another match that we get to pick the counter and can’t pull it out.

Pairing #5
We are down to just a few armies, and this is where things start to get bad. The USA put forward Eldar and they counter with Orks. I play foot Eldar myself and I know that Orks are a major pain, especially without Eldrad helping out. I struggle against them and it looks like so does Greg and he lost 16-4. This is hind sight, but maybe they should have thrown Ben out there. I will take a look at Greg’s numbers, but I think they days of the foot eldar build might be over.

Pairing #6
The Germans put out there Space Wolves, and the US counters with Ben’s Space Marines. US wins 20-0. Ben was a Space Wolf player so he knows that army well.

Pairing #7
The is done automatically after pairing #6 since there are only 2 armies left and it ends up being USA’s Tyranids vs. Mech Eldar and the Germans win 20-0

Pairing #8
The 2 Champions that were picked are Tony’s Space Wolves vs. the German IG player. Tony was dominating IG armies but he loses this one 2-18. Ouch!

The bad match ups at the bottom were because Team USA was waiting to counter the IG army with the Tyranid army which is build for that purpose. But the Germans did a great move with the IG army and moved it into the Champion slot almost guaranteeing that they would not have to face the Tyranids. So when the USA got to the last picks they were thinking that the Germans would have the IG army left, but they didn’t so the ‘Nids had to get crushed by the Mech Eldar.



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Looking at it some more at the start of the pairing #6 Ben has to make some interesting choices. The Germans put out the Space Wolves. He has 2 armies left, Tyranids and his Space Marines, and Germans have left either the Eldar or Imperial Guard.

So he knows that his Tryanids are next up so he has 2 choices: Nids vs SW or SM vs SW.
#1. Space Marines vs. Space Wolves and Tyranids vs (IG or Mech Eldar)
or
#2. Tyranids vs. Space Wolves and Space Marines vs (IG or Mech Eldar)

It looks like he thought that the Germans would not make the IG champions since they are a good put-forward army, and he thought that the Mech Eldar would be protected by being the champion so he selected #1. The problem with #1 is that it is very high risk/reward. If he guesses right then he has SM vs. SW, Tyranids vs. IG and SW vs. Eldar. Those are great matches for the USA. But what if he gets it wrong? Then he has what he got SM vs. SW, ‘Nids vs. Eldar, and SW vs. IG. I guess he is still not bad off since he does well against SW, and Tony is doing fine against IG, but the Nids will get murdered.

If he chooses #2 he ends up with either Nids vs. SW, SM vs. IG, and SW vs. Eldar, or what would have happened: Nids vs. SW, SM vs. Eldar, and SW vs IG. Not too bad.

It is just interesting to play Monday morning quarterback and look as the team selection process.

And here is a pic of Team USA


I hope Chtiofonce does not mind me swiping a couple of his pics.
He posted it on page #1, but you can see the rest of his pictures here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/104960327708584073250/40kETC2011#

Very well done guys, a huge accomplishment!

Blackmoor wrote:

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I am curious if Tony(USA) was the youngest player there. I also am curious how he did round to round. I talked to Cole after Tony and him fought for the top table at Adepticon, and he said Tony was the best player he ever faced. That being said I think Darth has a point about Ben as well. I would really like to see a break down round to round, Team america players, armies they faced, and who won. Don know if its possible, but someone posted it after the round vs. Germ.

You certainly can break down how each player did, but the factor that you do not know about is who gets to be put out there for a pairing, and who gets to go up against a bad match-up.

Bad matchup? Tony plays Space Wolves, surely you must be jesting!

As a Nid player I'd like to see a breakdown on how Jay's Tyranids fared, anyone knows? USA was the only team in the top 5 that had Nids.

Really close 40K this year, I'm just a bit bummed that Sweden lost to Poland in the final round at the top table. At least we were the only ones that beat the winning team.

Good job guys.

I wonder how special characters change the playstyles if they do at all. All I see around here is with them. I wonder if it put us (USA) at a disatvantage?

Hey Guys,

Just some quick feedback from Switzerland.

1. Congrats to the winners. Germany played well throughout the weekend and deserved the win. They out paired us. Unless you see the games though, it's hard to make full judgments on why the losses occurred. I personally made two tactical errors that caused my loss with the Eldar vs Orks.

2. Team America is not only happy about the 3rd place victory, but also really pleased that we tied with Sweden for best sportsmen.

3. I can tell you this - the Swedes and all of the English speaking teams are the greatest people to hang out with. Nick, Shaun and I drank a few beers with all of these countries last night. We had a blast last year and this year was even better. The camaraderie is awesome and I would gladly host anyone of them in the states.

4. Switzerland is damn expensive.

Overall, it was a great time. We have some things that will be improved upon for next year. More to come. It's time to do some touring.

Great job Greg, you done us proud.

Enjoy the sights!

Thats a really interesting breakdown Blackmoor. I would love to see what Ben says about it.

Official debriefing thread is here :

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=91399

FINAL STANDINGS

Place (Match Points) [Battle Points Difference] Team
01 (10) [258] Germany
02 (10) [134] Poland
03 (9) [140] USA
04 (8) [158] Sweden
05 (8) [58] Spain
06 (8) [52] France
07 (8) [-6] Wales
08 (7) [36] England
09 (7) [36] Finland
10 (7) [24] Switzerland
11 (7) [2] Latvia
12 (6) [-8] Denmark
13 (6) [-74] Republic of Ireland
14 (5) [36] Belarus
15 (5) [24] Italy
16 (5) [-6] Scotland
17 (5) [-26] Russia
18 (5) [-48] Euro Mercenaries
19 (5) [-120] Belgium
20 (4) [-40] Northern Ireland
21 (3) [-50] Czech Republic
22 (3) [-60] Austria
23 (2) [-436] Norway
24 (1) [-264] Greece

Congratulations Germany fort 1sts place, Poland for ETC Shield, USA and Sweden for a tied best sporting team award and Spain for the painting award...and to all present for a cracking weekend of wargaming

More when I recover fully but in the meantime you may have noticed german reporter Lupinus ghosting my account over the weekend to post links which you will find here : http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=89660
In the heat of the event the picasa galeries are a bit all over the place but I will sort it out in the coming weeks and let you know when to look at more pics and comments :wink:

PS I don"t mind links to my pics, I publish them for people to look at them However beware that links will mos probably break when I re-order the picasa galeries of this event...

Well done team U.S.A.

So wales got 8 match points despite having a -6 VP differential? That's nutty, but cool.


What exactly is a match point, if anyone knows?

It can't be whether the team won or lost the whole round (as there are only 5 rounds) and it can't be win/loss per player because there aren't nearly enough match points for that...so what is it exactly?

What exactly is a match point, if anyone knows?

It can't be whether the team won or lost the whole round (as there are only 5 rounds) and it can't be win/loss per player because there aren't nearly enough match points for that...so what is it exactly?

It's 2 points for a team victory, and 1 for a draw. (there are 6 rounds actually)

Yak, The battle point differential is not Vps. Heres how it works:

8 Players from Team A, face 8 Players from Team B. In each of those 8 games, there are 20 battle points up for grabs which the players fight for during the game. At the end of the 8 games, the battle points gained from the two teams are totaled and compared. There are battle point differences which are the cut-offs for determining if it was a draw or a win/loss game. i.e. if Team A gets 81 battlepoints, and B gets 79, it is a draw. If Team A gets 100, and B gets 60, Team A wins.

Match points are awarded, 2 points for a winner, 1 point for a draw, and 0 points for a loss. The difference in battle points gained by each team is also recorded for final tie-breakers.

For a team to have a low battle point differential, but still place higher than teams with a higher battle point differential, that means that when they won (which was often), they barely won, but when they lost they got crushed.

Wow, Poland got 1st and 2nd place overall in fantasy and 40k... and thats without any books actually translated into the language!

Inquisitor_Malice wrote:Hey Guys,

Just some quick feedback from Switzerland.

1. Congrats to the winners. Germany played well throughout the weekend and deserved the win. They out paired us. Unless you see the games though, it's hard to make full judgments on why the losses occurred. I personally made two tactical errors that caused my loss with the Eldar vs Orks.

2. Team America is not only happy about the 3rd place victory, but also really pleased that we tied with Sweden for best sportsmen.

3. I can tell you this - the Swedes and all of the English speaking teams are the greatest people to hang out with. Nick, Shaun and I drank a few beers with all of these countries last night. We had a blast last year and this year was even better. The camaraderie is awesome and I would gladly host anyone of them in the states.

4. Switzerland is damn expensive.

Overall, it was a great time. We have some things that will be improved upon for next year. More to come. It's time to do some touring.

Was great to play against you Greg, you certainly gave me a schooling on how footdar work against MSU and inspired me to go back to eldar. We were happy with 8th, being in the 3rd place play off was an improvement and we learnt a hell of a lot.

On point 4, hell yeah, at least next year is in Poland where it is cheaper. Hope to see you guys next year.

Now to explain to my partner why I now want to go across the pond to Adepticon to play these guys again....

Inquisitor_Malice wrote:
2. Team America is not only happy about the 3rd place victory, but also really pleased that we tied with Sweden for best sportsmen.

3. I can tell you this - the Swedes and all of the English speaking teams are the greatest people to hang out with. Nick, Shaun and I drank a few beers with all of these countries last night. We had a blast last year and this year was even better. The camaraderie is awesome and I would gladly host anyone of them in the states.

Hey Greg

As I said to Nick on FB I think the standing ovation and having most of the nations spontaneously start chanting USA! USA! USA! when you took 3rd (more noise than for 1st or 2nd) speaks volumes about how well liked you guys are. I think a lot of the home nations were rooting for you or Sweden to take the podium this year (sorry England but you know what I mean ).

Just want to say again it was really good to chat with and share a few beers with you this weekend, don't forget to say hi to Brandon from me and I'll see you in Poland dude!
(where everything is 100x cheaper than this weekend)

Neil

Wow, rough weekend for the Greeks.

Congrats to team USA!

Well Done German Team. I had Lots of good Games against two guys Who were in our Gaming Group for Years.

Congrats to all of the teams that participated!

Good showing from all, it seems. Well done to Germany, Poland, and USA for the top 3 spots.

Skcuzzlebumm wrote:

Inquisitor_Malice wrote:
2. Team America is not only happy about the 3rd place victory, but also really pleased that we tied with Sweden for best sportsmen.

3. I can tell you this - the Swedes and all of the English speaking teams are the greatest people to hang out with. Nick, Shaun and I drank a few beers with all of these countries last night. We had a blast last year and this year was even better. The camaraderie is awesome and I would gladly host anyone of them in the states.

Hey Greg

As I said to Nick on FB I think the standing ovation and having most of the nations spontaneously start chanting USA! USA! USA! when you took 3rd (more noise than for 1st or 2nd) speaks volumes about how well liked you guys are. I think a lot of the home nations were rooting for you or Sweden to take the podium this year (sorry England but you know what I mean ).

Just want to say again it was really good to chat with and share a few beers with you this weekend, don't forget to say hi to Brandon from me and I'll see you in Poland dude!
(where everything is 100x cheaper than this weekend)

Neil

Neil!! I never did get that drink from you!! I cannot drink that fake Budweiser!! There is only one King of Beers See you in Feb in the UK.

Greg- Yes Swiss is expensive. Certainly not for the faint of heart. But the scenery is great!!!

Brian

Great job guys--while the 3rd place finish is certainly something to be proud of--I'm as equally impressed with tying for Best Sportsman. Nice job putting forth a good image for the American 40k player, enjoy the rest of your vacation!

sabote wrote:Neil!! I never did get that drink from you!! I cannot drink that fake Budweiser!! There is only one King of Beers See you in Feb in the UK.

Dude I am going to have to teach you the error of your ways and the Budweiser Budvar is the REAL Budweiser, not that pish you Americans drink... Its that or I just get you drinking Guinness pint for pint with me

Well like I said Caledonia is mid Jan and the UK40KGT is set again for the end of March. Both rulespacks and tickets are going up soon so I'll be sure to get an email to you with details just to make sure you don't miss out.

See you soon buddy.

I think the standing ovations / high sports finish / etc. are extremely important accomplishments of the team.

In a game of dice, with interesting pairing mechanics and other things, there's a lot that can determine the difference between placing and not ... congratulations are in order for placing, but appreciation from your countrymen is in order for representing yourselves as good people. Bravo to that.

Here is a link to mine and some of the other Scottish players pics from the weekend: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150342154375067.391513.690700066&l=d3621a329b&type=1
- N.B I am going to keep updating it throughout the week as more pics get sent to me.

Well done gentlemen.

Great post, Blackmoor!

Excellent analysis.

Skcuzzlebumm wrote:

sabote wrote:Neil!! I never did get that drink from you!! I cannot drink that fake Budweiser!! There is only one King of Beers See you in Feb in the UK.

Dude I am going to have to teach you the error of your ways and the Budweiser Budvar is the REAL Budweiser, not that pish you Americans drink... Its that or I just get you drinking Guinness pint for pint with me

Hey, I'm American, and Budvar is possibly my favorite beer in the world.

Sabote is the man, though, despite his apparently-terrible taste in beer.

Apparently Budvar have a very good pilsner and good dunkel.


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Absolutely bad ass. You guys really killed it on all fronts.

I hope the best sport award gets some coverage on BoLS so the angry horde of commentators can see just how sporting the most competitive players are.

Fallen Angel wrote:Was great to play against you Greg, you certainly gave me a schooling on how footdar work against MSU and inspired me to go back to eldar. We were happy with 8th, being in the 3rd place play off was an improvement and we learnt a hell of a lot.

On point 4, hell yeah, at least next year is in Poland where it is cheaper. Hope to see you guys next year.

Now to explain to my partner why I now want to go across the pond to Adepticon to play these guys again....

Hey Chris - It was great to meet and play against you. That was quite the interesting game. We had several swings in the game itself that made it very interesting and quite enjoyable. Hopefully we can have the opportunity to play again sometime. USA will definitely be in Poland next year!!! And if you need help with the convincing traveling to AdeptiCon, let me know. Cheers.

Skcuzzlebumm wrote:As I said to Nick on FB I think the standing ovation and having most of the nations spontaneously start chanting USA! USA! USA! when you took 3rd (more noise than for 1st or 2nd) speaks volumes about how well liked you guys are. I think a lot of the home nations were rooting for you or Sweden to take the podium this year (sorry England but you know what I mean ).

Just want to say again it was really good to chat with and share a few beers with you this weekend, don't forget to say hi to Brandon from me and I'll see you in Poland dude!
(where everything is 100x cheaper than this weekend)

Neil

Thanks Neil... Team USA can't thank all of you guys enough. It was a really awesome and special moment to hear all of that. Plus as I said, the company and beer was great. Talked to Brandon that night. Good luck with the move to Sweden and see ya' next year.

@Brian - yes - The swiss scenery and " the scenery" is great from so many different angles. Hell - I'm mad at my parents for not telling me to just come work over here for a few years when I was younger.

Congrats to our Team Germany! (which I know personally, and played most of them)

And respect to Team USA for coming here for the second time and score 3rd. (together with 1st in sportsmanship)