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Lol it was rather clear this thread was on a downward spiral due to opinions being tossed in lol.

Since the Eldar one had a few errors in it I'll toss one out there for folks.

1. Witchblades aren't power weapons and singing spears wound non-vehicles on a 2+ but are NOT power weapons
2. Eldar vehicles are not assault vehicles. Eldar in their vehicles will have to move into position and wait for the next turn to get out.
3. Eldar powers must be cast at the beginning of the turn. It even happens before reserves, so things coming in from reserves won't have a chance to be cast on.
4. Farseers can not cast their start of the turn powers if they are coming in from reserves or plan to turboboost while on a jetbike
5. Wraithlords only have 2 attacks base, it takes them a while to kill a squad in CC.
6. Wraithlords, being T8, can't be hurt by str 4 or under attacks (unless they have something like poison etc)
7. Harlequins with Veil of Tear can not be shot by guns further then 24" away... however you can hit that unit next to them with a blast and overlap the blast to hit them.
8. If you rip the guns off a Holofielded Fire Prism, Falcon, or Nightspinner realize that it is stil la serious threat to you.
9. Dire Avenger bladestorm does not allow the unit to fire the next shooting phase
10. The Nightspinner monofiliment web rule makes all units hit, regardless of wound, treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous the next time they move for any reason. This doesn't go away till you move. The dangerous terrain test is per model (yes if the eldar player is feeling like an arse you have to roll each of those 30 boyz one at a time). Only models that move take the test. If you are assaulted you don't roll difficult/dangerous terrain, however it does remove the web effect since you moved.

Polonius - yes, it does matter in a thread on what people should know - it lets them know that some TOs make rulings contrary to the rules of the game, and then dont publicise that fact.

Of course, they can also decide that IG can give orders to units inside vehicles, also not a rule in question but ive seen it ruled.

So pointing out that a TO can change any rule is about as useful as pointing out that TMIR exists.

Wow, this list is an amazing idea!

Is it possible for the OP to edit the original post with all the '10 things you should know' of each army into post #1?

Thanks everyone for your input!

I will add the edit later!

'nids

1) Automatically lose to GK on a D6 roll of 1+
2) Automatically lose to DE if they have enough poison.
3) The 'nids FAQ was written by someone who lost to them too many times in previous editions, and may have been a little bitter.
4) Yes the Carnifex really does cost that many points.
5) The only unit with an assault grenades upgrade in a codex full of melee units really is I1 base.
6) The Lictor reserves/teleport homer 'bonuses' rely on it arriving on turn 2, and anything else that wants to use it arriving inTurn 3 or later. The odds of this happening are roughly 25%, so I hope your strategy doesn't depend on it!
7) Same with the Trygon tunnel.
8) Old One Eye really does cost more than a Land Raider. No, I don't know why either.
9) No units in the codex have Eternal Warrior and very very few have invuln saves.
10) The fearsome and expensive Swarmlord can be ID'd by a single force weapon. See points 1+9.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonius - yes, it does matter in a thread on what people should know - it lets them know that some TOs make rulings contrary to the rules of the game, and then dont publicise that fact.

Of course, they can also decide that IG can give orders to units inside vehicles, also not a rule in question but ive seen it ruled.

So pointing out that a TO can change any rule is about as useful as pointing out that TMIR exists.

Wait, I'm confused. I'ts important to let people know that TOs make contrary rulings, but pointing that out is as useful as pointing out TMIR?

You're still arguing the merits. Don't do that in this thread. It doesn't matter how clear cut a rule is, if there are places that play it opposite, players should be aware that such a thing exists.

If 10% of tournaments played that orders could be given to units in vehicles, that would be worth noting in the IG section.

Though if we were to make a list of things people should know about tournaments in general (as opposed to by codex), along with "TOs can change whatever they want," I'd definitely include "the more blustery your opponent gets about a rule, the more you should consult the TO."

Space Marines.

1. Chapter tactics over writes combat tactics.
2. Only a captain can take a command squad
3. drop pods cant fire when they arrive Don't they count as moving cruising speed which means defensive weapons can fire?
4. drop pod occupants take dangerous terrain if they enter terrain disembarking Please explain, this wouldn't happen if you dumped out of a land raider.
5. Special sternguard ammo does not work with pistols only boltguns
6. A dread with chainfist cannot get an extra additional weapon attack
7. servo arms strike at strength 8, no modification; relic blades strike at strength 6, no modification
8. gate of infinity is used at the start of the movement phase, so cannot gate a non troop unit in dawn of war
9. units cannot comabt squad while in reserve (2 transports, etc)
10. locator beacons cannot be premeasured to

I'm new to space marines but the two highlighted above seem off.

xttz wrote:'nids

1) Automatically lose to GK on a D6 roll of 1+
2) Automatically lose to DE if they have enough poison.
3) The 'nids FAQ was written by someone who lost to them too many times in previous editions, and may have been a little bitter.
4) Yes the Carnifex really does cost that many points.
5) The only unit with an assault grenades upgrade in a codex full of melee units really is I1 base.
6) The Lictor reserves/teleport homer 'bonuses' rely on it arriving on turn 2, and anything else that wants to use it arriving inTurn 3 or later. The odds of this happening are roughly 25%, so I hope your strategy doesn't depend on it!
7) Same with the Trygon tunnel.
8) Old One Eye really does cost more than a Land Raider. No, I don't know why either.
9) No units in the codex have Eternal Warrior and very very few have invuln saves.
10) The fearsome and expensive Swarmlord can be ID'd by a single force weapon. See points 1+9.

None of these are especially helpful, and 1-4 are particularly useless. Be less bitter yourself, and try harder.

And yes, I have over 2500 points of Tyranids, still use 'fexen, and still win games.


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the_trooper wrote:

3. drop pods cant fire when they arrive Don't they count as moving cruising speed which means defensive weapons can fire?
4. drop pod occupants take dangerous terrain if they enter terrain disembarking Please explain, this wouldn't happen if you dumped out of a land raider.

I'm new to space marines but the two highlighted above seem off.

Defensive weapons can only be fired if you move Combat Speed, not Cruising Speed (unless you're fast).

Drop Pod occupants count as if arriving from deep strike themselves, thus they take the test. Land Raider occupants don't.

EDIT: Quotefail.

A few corrections on the Eldar summary:

2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.

This is not entirely accurate. Unlike the instance with fast transports stating models cannot embark/disembark if the vehicle is going to go flat out, the turbo boosters rule states a model that has used turbo boosters cannot make voluntary actions for the rest of the turn; Fortune, Guide, and Doom are all cast at the start of the turn and thus can be cast before you turbo boost. Mind War and Eldritch Storm however can't be cast.

7. Falcons do not have Forcefields so you get double melta, ordnance etc.

Ordinance isn't effected by Energy Fields anyway as it is only doing 1D6 penetration.

10. Phoenix lords only affect units of aspect warriors

Phoenix Lords only give Fearless to aspect warriors, and cannot join aspects other than their own. However any other rules of theirs such as Stealth etc can effect any unit they join. The Warithstar is a good example of this.

Orders must be done first before any other shooting, and must be done from most to least senior.

IIRC the latter part here is incorrect.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:A few corrections on the Eldar summary:

2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.

This is not entirely accurate. Unlike the instance with fast transports stating models cannot embark/disembark if the vehicle is going to go flat out, the turbo boosters rule states a model that has used turbo boosters cannot make voluntary actions for the rest of the turn; Fortune, Guide, and Doom are all cast at the start of the turn and thus can be cast before you turbo boost. Mind War and Eldritch Storm however can't be cast.

|It is actually very much accurate. Turbo Boosters states it cannot make any voluntary actions in the same turn, not for the rest of the turn.

7. Falcons do not have Forcefields so you get double melta, ordnance etc.

Ordinance isn't effected by Energy Fields anyway as it is only doing 1D6 penetration.

Ordnance is affected, the Energy Fields rule states that Ordnance only ever rolls one dice, thus losing it's ability to roll 2 and pick the highest.

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Vaktathi wrote:

Orders must be done first before any other shooting, and must be done from most to least senior.

IIRC the latter part here is incorrect.

Officers in Company Command Squads must be the first to issue orders, only then can Platoon Command Squads issue theirs.

Paraphrased from pg29 of the IG codex.

Hrm, I'll have to double check my codex when I get home.

Polonius - its as useful as pointing out that anyone can change the rules at any time.

Droppods - they cant fire when they drop as they have moved cruising, and cruising speed disallows firing ANY weapons, unless you are Fast (pods arent) or have PotMS or similar other rule (so, BT Drop pods....)

#1 Under Eldar should go under general rules.

You could add that you can use embolden to reroll psychic tests or that warp spiders have an assault teleport.

Some blood angels stuff.

Mephiston is not an IC
DoA lets you scatter 1d6 less

olympia wrote:
TAU
1. A Pathfinder devifish cannot Outflank without them.
2. Markerlights can only increase BS to 5. Cover save reductions can only applicable to the single selected firing unit. Declare function before shooting.
3. Drones connected to a unit of Firewarriors do count toward squad size
4. Attached Drones follow the rules for defensive weapons on a Tank (despite S5), but use their own BS of 2.
5. Broadsides cannot drop a large blast like a Hammerhead
6. Kroot have Leadership 7 without their Shaper
7. If a tank is destroyed, any attached drones may not disembark and are destroyed, but do not give an additional Killpoint.
8. Attached drones may disembark during the player movement phase at any point within 2" of the vehicle hull. These units do give kill points.
9. Ethereals only gives the bonus/malus for Leadership Tests to Tau units if they are within LOS to the Ethereal
10. A commander with only gundrones still counts as an IC. In combat the IC + Drones are counted as a single separate unit.

Um....where did you get this from? Perhaps there are not enough Tau players in the audience to argue with you, but several things here appear to be untrue.

1. Yes, as far as I know, it can. It's dedicated transport, dedicated transports can share in a units scout, same as GK rhinos for a squad that has benefited from Grand Strategy.
4. No, they don't. They're in all ways passengers. They fire on their own, as their own unit. They may fire if the DF moves less than 6", but may not if it moves more than 6", and in no way count towards the number of weapons the DF is firing (which can only ever be 1).



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1. Attack bikes are scoring units when taken as add-ons to bikers; the same applies to land speeders as part of a Ravenwing Attack Squad.
2. Deep striking terminators do not scatter when within 6'' of bikes (all come standard with beacon). Model must be placed first and then measurements taken.
3. Up to half of the reserved terminator squads may be brought in by deepstrike in turn 1. This does not have to be declared until turn 1.
4. Ravenwing bikes have a scout move. This means that if given first turn, the bikers can move 24'' (12'' scout + 12'' movement) and still fire. (Ye be warned Landraiders).
5. Ravenwing bikers CANNOT turbo boost as their scout move.
6. All terminators and bikers are fearless.
7. Belial makes terminators a troop choice when he enters the army.
8. When taking an apothecary, cyclone and standard bearer with Belial's terminator squad. There are six different model types in the squad. (Creates a wound distribution advantage)
9. Standard provides extra attack to entire squad (Makes for 25 S8 I1 attacks on the charge from this unit)
10. Belial is WS5 with 3W

#5 is specifically untrue. The main 40k FAQ specifically says bikes may turbo-boost during their scout move, they just must remain 12" away from the enemy during this move.

Space Marines.

1. Chapter tactics over writes combat tactics.
2. Only a captain can take a command squad
3. drop pods cant fire when they arrive
4. drop pod occupants take dangerous terrain if they enter terrain disembarking
5. Special sternguard ammo does not work with pistols only boltguns
6. A dread with chainfist cannot get an extra additional weapon attack
7. servo arms strike at strength 8, no modification; relic blades strike at strength 6, no modification
8. gate of infinity is used at the start of the movement phase, so cannot gate a non troop unit in dawn of war
9. units cannot comabt squad while in reserve (2 transports, etc)
10. locator beacons cannot be premeasured to

#6 is untrue. It was a stupid arguement previously -- The chainfist is clearly meant to be another form of DCCW. Anyway, it's been errated.

Look, if you're going to list a list of "facts" like this, you're under an extra burden to make sure they're all correct.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:
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5. Ravenwing bikers CANNOT turbo boost as their scout move.

#5 is specifically untrue. The main 40k FAQ specifically says bikes may turbo-boost during their scout move, they just must remain 12" away from the enemy during this move.

Actual 5 is right. The Dark Angel rulebook trumps the 40k BRB and says they may not.

In fact, it states "Nobody can turboboost during their scout move", the Dark Angels are very good at preventing their opponents bikes from getting into position.

1. Nightshields do not work on weapons that have 6” or less range.
2. Wolf Scouts enter the board on the left table edge on a roll of ‘1’, and the right table edge on a roll of a ‘2’. Only on a roll of 3-6 does the SW player get to choose.
3. Tau disruption pods do not work if you are within 12’
4. Deffrollas have no AP
5. Grey Knight units have leadership 9 and besides purifiers they are not fearless.
6. Most Ork, Tryanid, and Dark Eldar (besides Wytches), Terminators (besides GKs), and Chaos Demons (besides demonettes and seekers) do not have grenades.
7. Necrons do not get a WWB roll if you kill all of the same model type within 6”.
8. Hive Guard do not need line of sight to shoot, and to get cover you have to be in terrain.
9. A Manticore only has 4 shots.
10. Wave Serpents Energy Field that lowers weapons to strength 8 and removes the extra dice for penetration does not work when you shoot at the rear.

Sir_prometheus, I'm afraid you are wrong on all counts.

olympia wrote:Sir_prometheus, I'm afraid you are wrong on all counts.

I'm sorry, you're going to have to back that up. I concede the point that Timmah pointed out on Ravenwing bikers, I wasn't aware of the specific mention in the Dark Angels codex, but the rest of it I'm pretty sure on.

Isn't the Dread getting an extra attack with a chainfist now true per the new ertta. Since its just a DCCW that rolls 2d10 for pen. No longer using the chainfist rules.

Sir_P - point 1, the poster was saying the devilfish cannout Outflank WITHOUT the unit inside - whcih it cannot, as it does not have Scout

So you were wrong there, as you misread the poster

Ah, OK, fair enough. Not too why you would want to do that, though, which kinda makes you wonder why it was worth mentioning.

That leaves then:

Tau DF drones shooting as defensive weapons (nope passenegers)

Dreadnought chain fists (which, someone else has also pointed out were errated.)

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Ah, OK, fair enough. Not too why you would want to do that, though, which kinda makes you wonder why it was worth mentioning.

That leaves then:

Tau DF drones shooting as defensive weapons (nope passenegers)

Dreadnought chain fists (which, someone else has also pointed out were errated.)

Well an outflanking fish with kroot inside could be quite useful. Or just an outflanking warfish (a tank that you have to pay for anyway) with seeker missles/flechettes could also be quite disruptive.

And regarding the other Tau point:

4. They are not "in all ways passengers", not by a long shot. They may disembark in the movement phase like passengers, but this is the only time they are treated as such.

Whilst attached to the vehicle, the drones fire "as part of" the vehicle with their own BS of 2 and may do so in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire.

And finally now due to the new FAQ, if a vehicle is destroyed they are no longer treated as passengers and instead automatically die with the vehicle (thankfully not giving up an extra kill point either...)

So they essentially follow the same rules as defensive weapons (apart from the S5 and BS2 which was mentioned in the original point).


Regards the errata, I'm guessing there is some ambiguity still around the wording as to whether it is still a different type of DCCW and therefore cannot be combined with the normal DCCW for the extra attack. Much like a model armed with a Powerfist and a Thunderhammer.

If Drones were passengers, then they would not be allowed to fire due to the Devilfish having no fire points, and would take up 2 of the alloted spaces in the Devilfish as well as disallowing any unit from entering it until they detatch.

Also:
Q. Can gun drones mounted on a vehicle still fire if the
vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too fast, or isnʼt
allowed to fire its weapons for any other reason? (p30)
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if
the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon.
&
Q: What happens to the gun drones on a vehicle if the
vehicle is destroyed? (p30)
A: The gun drones will be destroyed along with the
vehicle. Note that they do not give away an additional kill
point as they have not been detached from the vehicle.

This clearly shows that drones do not function as passengers on a vehicle, but as part of the vehicle themselves, also note this from the Tau Codex:

"While attached, the Gun Drones may fire as part of the vehicle, using their own BS, in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire."

Avatar 720 wrote:If Drones were passengers, then they would not be allowed to fire due to the Devilfish having no fire points, and would take up 2 of the alloted spaces in the Devilfish as well as disallowing any unit from entering it until they detatch.

Also:
Q. Can gun drones mounted on a vehicle still fire if the
vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too fast, or isnʼt
allowed to fire its weapons for any other reason? (p30)
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if
the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon.
&
Q: What happens to the gun drones on a vehicle if the
vehicle is destroyed? (p30)
A: The gun drones will be destroyed along with the
vehicle. Note that they do not give away an additional kill
point as they have not been detached from the vehicle.

This clearly shows that drones do not function as passengers on a vehicle, but as part of the vehicle themselves, also note this from the Tau Codex:

"While attached, the Gun Drones may fire as part of the vehicle, using their own BS, in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire."

I'm sorry, no. All those shooting restrictions apply to passengers, as well. They are, essentially, passengers, with their own dedicated fire point, though it's not stated in those terms. The key difference being that yes, they are destroyed if the tank dies. But as far as shooting goes, they in all ways act as passengers.

But what they definitely ain't is "another pair of defensive weapons on the DF". If that were true, they wouldn't be able to fire at all in addition to the main gun if the DF moved at all (assuming no multi-tracker). But that's not true, they can. They also wouldn't be able to fire at a different target, but they can.

They shoot as passengers, not weapons.

With Space Marines using Combat Squads, can one half of the Squad be in a rhino and the other half be placed in a strategic sniping position (aka heavy weapon placement)

theQuanz wrote:With Space Marines using Combat Squads, can one half of the Squad be in a rhino and the other half be placed in a strategic sniping position (aka heavy weapon placement)

Yes, although that is slightly off topic and would belong in the YMDC section.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:They shoot as passengers, not weapons.

There is no rule anywhere that says this, at least not in 5th Ed. I think Avatar 720 covered all the bases with the direct quotations of the rules/FAQ.

You cant just ignore this quote (p 30 Tau Codex):
"While attached, the Gun Drones may fire as part of the vehicle, using their own BS, in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire."

If that were true, they wouldn't be able to fire at all in addition to the main gun if the DF moved at all (assuming no multi-tracker). But that's not true, they can.

You need to read the rules for defensive weapons again, as defensive weapons can indeed fire in this instance. Defensive weapons p.58 and fast vehicles p.70

They also wouldn't be able to fire at a different target, but they can.

Again there is no rule to support this. They may however split fire as part of a vehicle if the vehicle has Target Lock upgrade.



I'm sorry but once again you are wrong.

They're not defensive weapons, they're Str 5.

You're reading entirely too much into "fired as part of the vehicle". They use their own BS. They fire on their own. They're god-damned passengers. I'll admit the rule is written kinda weirdly, but in GW speak, they're just passengers firing same time as the vehicle.

I would edit the necron one a bit, as its more than just "info" but implied tactics as well.
(I am not saying the tactics are bad, I am saying this thread seems to be about info so players can make their own tactical decisions).

Necrons

1. Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers have only a single wound, and a 3+ save.
2. You only ever get 1d armor penetration against a monolith; its very explicit in the codex.
3. Phase out is checked after WBB rolls are made.
4. The Tomb spider is a MC, but has only two wounds and no invul, and is not fleet.
5. Necrons get a WBB from a sweeping advance, as you would normally remove them as casualties during at the end of the assault phase.
6. A model only gets to make a WBB roll if; 1) There is a live model within 6", or 2) there is another model on the table of the same type, AND a tomb spyder within 12"
7. WBB is not FNP; weapon AP is not a consideration, only weapons that ignore armor saves in CC or attacks that cause instant death will prevent WBB.
8. Necrons can teleport out of CC with veil using deep strike, and by using the monolith (The squad must be partially within 24 inches of the monolith. aka 5 out of a squad of 10 must be within 24 of the monolith). A unit teleported through a monolith portal may re-roll failed WBB rolls, only if the models were eligible in the first place.
9. A monolith can't move if it is stunned, and can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc if it's shaken or stunned. A monolith can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc and particle whip at the same time, nor can a monolith use it's portal and it's particle whip in the same turn.
10. Ctan have no long ranged shooting attacks, and ONLY have a 4++ invul, are not fleet, do not have eternal warrior and are 300 and 360 points respectively.




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General rules #9;
A vehicle may not fire any weapons after a ram attack. A skimmer cannot dodge a ram attack from another skimmer.