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Ascalam wrote:I remember when you could get 3 rhinos for about the cost of one now.

The prices have got a bit insane.

It was 3 rhinos £10 here. Now you pay double that for one .

8/10. Because they make some pretty cool shizz.

3/10 - the universe and fluff was the best thing going for it, but now its stagnant. Minis are nice, but pricey given the amount needed to play. Rules are awful, and there are much more tactical, flowing games to play if you look around.

HI all.
A 3 from me.
Nice asthetic (1)and exelent customer service (1) and usualy helpful/creative/ talented staff(1).

(Pre 1998 they would have got a solid 8 or 9.Honest open two way dialoge with the customer base +1, wide range of games +1 , all games better support +1, boxed games in the main stream for ease of acess,+1,WD was a hobby magazine , not just a minature cataloge+1,the focus was more games by gamers for gamers.+1... )

But honestly the GW plc corperate managment are running the company into the ground while Kirby bloats his pension fund.

If the board of directors was replaced by people who actualy understood the GW products and the most suitable customers for them.
They could work out the best way to bring them together, and MASSIVLEY improves value for money.

Rather than focus on the easiest to please , and the least price sensitive demoghraphic, which is loosing GW sales volumes at an ever incresing rate.
(Because fewer and fewer people can justify paying the prices GW plc think thier producrs are worth.)

4/10

They are a company that I want so badly to succeed, write good rules, put out awesome minis, and support their specialist game line...

But deep down I know most of those goals are completely dead and buried. Sadly, I (and my gaming dollar) have moved on.

I gave them an 8/10.

I like their product and while would like it to be cheaper (I remember 50p dwarfs and £2.50 for 5 marine blisters!), I do not find the price is not off-putting since I don't see many comparable products that differ drastically.

Their introdution of new blood to the industry should not be under estimated and for that they deserve enormous credit, be it from store fronts or the licenced games.

Customer service remains a shining example of how to do it right (take note all other UK comanies!), WD was a real mess but shows signs of improvement (I have actually bought the last 2), Spulk/Dreadfleet have also been a step in the right direction adding important variety to their lines, Finecast after a botched release has turned out some impressive miniatures and they have really stepped up to the mark on the new releases (DE and by the looks Necrons too).

So all in all I guess I like what they make.

I won't expound on the negatives as I see many have already done so, but firmly believe that allot of the issues raised are either understandable (commercially) and/or blown out of proportion.

Dakka says: 5.67 at the time of typing with 221 votes cast.

Me, I scored them quite low (I voted yesterday so I forget, but I think it was a 3).

Prices
Corporate strategy
Quality and consistency of rules
Ridiculous length of rules cycle and failure to errata armies over time
Failure to market and support LotR properly
Finecast
White Dwarf quality and subscription change
Half-arsed HE model refresh (new stuff is in a different scale)

But I like the models and the universes and I find the current iterations of the rules mostly balanced for the armies produced for these editions.

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

No.

8/10

-1 for Finecast (I liked metals MORE)
-1 for yearly price hikes
-1 for Secrecy
-1 for The legal action against their fans
+2 for the GW store system. While not perfect, it is still great to be able to always have a place to play 40k.

PhantomViper wrote:

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

No.

Best. reply. ever.

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

So constantly increasing prices is a good way to reflect market demand? Whatever your on, I want some of it.

Right now it's a 7.

When I first got into the hobby it was about 6. Everything seemed expensive as hell and way too complicated. In the years that followed that went to a 7, 8, then 9. When apocalypse dropped it was a true 10 for me. Now its about a 7 for me. Still good but the GW that was 20 minutes away was closed by corporate and now there's just a douchie LGS. And everyone wants to play Warmachine when I'm sitting on an Imperial Horde.

5/10

-Great Minis.
-Excellent Background.
-Have been very good for the growth of the hobby in that the ubiquity of GW means that you can always find a game.
-Excellent customer service regarding ordering, replacements, etc.

VS

-Rediculous prices.
-Slowly whittling DIY out of the hobby.
-WD is a pathetic catalog trying to pass as a magazine.
-Rulesets that are mediocre at best and are updated in ways that seem suspciously designed to make old models bad and new/larger/more models good.

Pacific wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

No.

Best. reply. ever.

Yeah, very pithy, but cleverness and image macros aside, the fact remains that no business can remain "overpriced" for, like, 20 goddamn years. Not unless they have a monopoly on something, which GWS does not. If they really were "overpriced" then there would be a market vacuum of competitors making the same product for cheaper and stealing marketshare. Decade after decade, that doesn't happen. Hence, your definition of "overpriced" is suspect. This thread is a good example; the same people who claim GWS are overpriced also keep buying their crap. Overpriced does not mean "I wish it cost less", it means it costs more then I'm willing tol buy, something which clearly is not actually happening.

Ouze wrote: If they really were "overpriced" then there would be a market vacuum of competitors making the same product for cheaper and stealing marketshare.

You mean like PP, Wyrd, Spartan, BF and a few other companies that have been experiencing an increase in sales and general exponential growth whille GWs sales have been decreasing since the end of the LoTR movies? That kind of loss of market share?

Ouze wrote:
Decade after decade, that doesn't happen.

That white helmet you're wearing may be impairing your perception of the hobby world outside of a GW store... Go read the threads about GWs own financial reports and you'll see the steady decline of GW miniature sales in the past years.

Ouze wrote:
Hence, your definition of "overpriced" is suspect. This thread is a good example; the same people who claim GWS are overpriced also keep buying their crap. Overpriced does not mean "I wish it cost less", it means it costs more then I'm willing tol buy, something which clearly is not actually happening.

To you maybe not, to me and countless others, yeah that has happened a few years ago, just because you don't aknowledge it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Do you even realize that only the drastic cost cust measurements that have been implemented in the past few years and the sale of the IP to computer games, board games, etc are the things that are keeping GW above the red with current level of sales?

That was my long version of the "No" reply, btw...

When I joined up, 25 years ago, everything was new and bright and shiny and there was so much to look forward to.

And things just got better and better, for years, every time I opened a White Dwarf, there were things to dazzle and amaze and going to a Games Workshop was cool, witnessing the employees creating amazing models and dioramas and being brought into games was so cool.

Then the Red Age dawned, suddenly the focus switched to the very young kids, around my early 20s, and I found a rapidly changing attitude in the GW store, if I wasn't buying anything, then due to my age I was not so very welcome as I had been. Costs began to creep up and finally I said, at the age of 25, enough. So I quit the hobby after 14 years and had nothing to do with it.

Then, aged 30, I moved from my home town to the big city and met up with old friends who'd remained playing (including dakka's own 'RandyMcStab') and this coincided with the ork range being redone. I found that I really enjoyed the refined rules, the models were once again amazing and having friends playing outside of the stores meant I didn't have to go in them much (as they were now beyond awful, swarming with loud kids, the occasional smelly person and most annoying a certain staff member of the local store who was probably too used to dealing with kids to know how to address another adult).

Yes it was still pricey stuff, but I could now comfortably afford it. I threw myself back into the hobby with a vengeance. I was back on the carousel and enjoying it.

Then the price started skyrocketing, I mean really shooting up.

Then the C&D attacks started vomiting out directed at their own fanbase, some of whom had worked bloody hard to produce things for the hobby that GW had stopped doing.

White Dwarf continued to become more and more worthless.

The creative side of the hobby was being damped down, terrain was now being made by GW.

Then the Tin Price Hike (supposedly a 'temporary measure' during the tin inflation hike, which was never revoked by GW) followed by the Plastic Price Hike (allegedly to 'bring our wonderful plastics in line with the price of our metal range'?!?). The financial reports openly described the 'price elasticity' that the consumer of the product was willing to endure...

Then more and more price hikes.

The bait and switch of metal to resin, a cheaper material, followed by another very sharp price hike despite this being a cheaper material.

The awful way the company deals with 3rd party vendors. The Oz and RoW debacle.

I believe, strongly, that the senior management of the company actively disliked it's player base. I think the design studio is held by the throat by that same management and forced to do some fairly cynical things with codices and rules in order to promote sales over playability. I think we, the very people who make the company exist, are regarded in a highly negative fashion by the people at the top.

I think as time goes on, that I'm riding the carousel less and less, it's becoming very expensive for a ticket and it just goes round and round and gives you a sore arse. I think as time goes on, that there will be other rides at the fair that I'm going to be trying out as well, with cheaper tickets and less pain to the posterior.

Nicely said Stompa, though my time in the " GW trenches" isn't quite as long as yours ( 12-13 years for me), you've summed up my feelings very well...
With the exception of a few second hand purchases I've completely phased out buying any GW products...and am also looking at other " rides at the fair".
As to the OP's poll...1-2/10...

I don't play their games anymore. I don't see any moves on their part to get me to return. I gave a generous 3/10

3/10

I haven't been involved with wargaming for nearly as long as many of the posters on here (~6 years maybe?) But even I have noticed the change. Less and less content on their website, less creativity in general, more pushing of sales. Then the Summer of Our Discontent happened, and I quit buying from GW. Now, their business practices have driven me away, and the prices are keeping me away. I would love to buy and paint up a stonehorn, but I can't afford to buy a model like that just for giggles.

infinite_array wrote:5/10.

Love the universe, hate the company and games that control it.

This.

8/10. They have everything I need.

I think I said 4/10.

I used to love the universes. 40k and Fantasy, then they started to make some strange changes to the rule systems and army structure. I find Fantasy so boring to play, and the stupid structuring with percentages ruins game play and rewards Power Gaming.

The fact that specialist games are sold as an after thought is upsetting too.

The changes with the current trend of 40k codexes has made the game less enjoyable. To the point I haven't played since May. I fear with some of the rumours for 6th ed that will be the end of my adventures with GW.

Well maybe not if LotR SBG gets a boost from The Hobbit. That might hold me.

I'd like to note something my wife, whose background is in customer service management pointed out to me.

In the customer service world anything less than a 4 out of 5 (or 8 out of ten in this case) is considered a fail on any of the satisfaction surveys customers filled out/answered over the phone. If your customers aren't w lking away with a warm fuzzy feeling you did something wrong.

By extension I think its pretty clear GWS is doing something wrong, especially since this is our HOBBY, its what we do for fun. I don't see how a company responsible for stuff we do for fun can find a 6/10 average rating acceptable, when a credit card company would be firing people over that.

Do I think they're totally frelled? No. But I think this is a clear sign that they could be doing a much, much better job of making thier customers happy. A sign that there is a lot of room for improvement, but here's the agravating part- they refuse to acknowledge this. They are the "biggest and the best and the product is clearly the best", at least in thier own minds, so postive change fails to materialize.

Sigh...that the really agravating part.

7/10.

Don't hate the company, but prices on this side of the pond are definitly ludicrous. I still enjoy the games, still enjoy reading the fluff, and they still make the only minitures range that interests me.

I avoid their stores, since it's more irritating than interesting going in. Even the good staff are turning into used car salesmen. Though I do endure it for the odd finecast purchase.

So yeah, basically I dislike the new staff behaviour and the pricing is ridiculous, but that's all I can really put against it. 7/10 seems fair.

8/10 only complaints bad store placement and finecast oh amlost forgot PRICES they are outrages

8/10

the models, the universe, all of it so just awesome

I took down 2 points for

1:prices...30 dollars for 10 boyz....Really!?!?
2:Need to get to work and update all of the codexs up to 5th edition...than move on to 6th.....

Jwalker52 wrote:8/10 only complaints bad store placement and finecast oh amlost forgot PRICES they are outrages

which is why their customer base is shrinking

7/10

They create massive, in depth, fascinating universes. I love the stories, characters, and setting of both WHFB and 40k to death. I have wasted countless hours reading old codexes and pages on Lexicanum.

I'd say the majority of the models they make are excellent.

That's the good and the value of the good greatly outweighs the bad even if there appears to be more of the latter.

Their rules are unbalanced gak. Army books and codexes should be updated within 6 months of a new edition and certainly prior to 'Ard Boyz.
They take far too long to release models for everything, forcing you to buy 3rd party, buy FW (effing Nob Bikers and Rhinox Riders) or convert your own. Converting is great and all, but not everyone has GD skills. I preferred my converted Stormravens and Rhinox Riders to the GW/FW ones, but things like bikers are just too much of a PITA to convert.

They leave too much stuff underdeveloped and really need to at least triple the amount of army lists/armies for each system.

Where are the Araby, Nippon, Chaos Dwarfs, Northmen (Norsemen, w/e you want to call them), Cathay armies?

Where is the Adeptus Mechanicus codex?

Why can't I field a pure Stormtrooper army? Or Orks in Warcoptas? Why can't all Terminators use Drop Pods? Why do the Deep Striking rules suck ass unless you're Blood Angels, in a Drop Pod, or an IG Stormtrooper? Why do snipers suck (other than the Vindicare)?


There is so much untapped potential that it is overwhelmingly frustrating.

CorvidMP wrote:
By extension I think its pretty clear GWS is doing something wrong, especially since this is our HOBBY, its what we do for fun. I don't see how a company responsible for stuff we do for fun can find a 6/10 average rating acceptable, when a credit card company would be firing people over that.

I question why people who would list their satisfaction as such frequent a web forum entirely about a game that they hate.