Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There was a situation at the local GW in Dallas Tx. The manager went out of his way and had a large group of regulars to game and shop. Certain people complained about the community and the manager and in a few months he was fired and escorted out. The group found a local comic shop and thats where we do all our gaming and buying. So my suggestion is just find a new place to play, I'm sure most local stores would like to build a large community of gamers.

Ultrafool wrote:There was a situation at the local GW in Dallas Tx. The manager went out of his way and had a large group of regulars to game and shop. Certain people complained about the community and the manager and in a few months he was fired and escorted out. The group found a local comic shop and thats where we do all our gaming and buying. So my suggestion is just find a new place to play, I'm sure most local stores would like to build a large community of gamers.

Yep. Building up a large community of gamers is by far the best road to success, and the hardest job a store has. If you have to let someone go from the job, this was not the way to do it if you want to keep the community.

Eiríkr wrote:May I have a link to ze' FaceBook page?

It is absolutely atrocious for the suits to fire a gracious and seemingly well-loved pillar of the community like this. Caring red-shirts are a rare breed.

Facebook is blindingly irrelevant. As KK noted, send a real letter. Note the amount of items you acquired from that store in the last 12 months (detail it). Then note how that income stream is gone.


Probably more to this though.

I find this very interesting.

Corporate Retail is more than happy customers. It is representing the Corporation in the manner that the corporation finds most fulfilling to its core requirements for the unit. This is usually a measure of core sales, growth and customer satisfaction. Customer satisfaction on the surface would seem high to the 30+ regulars but in fact the corporation may choose to measure satisfaction differently. It doesn't mean it is right but right in the their eyes.

Corporations, above all, must achieve consistency in their retail platforms. Any move away from creating a consistent customer experience from location to location can create havoc. ie. One store stocks items that another doesn't, one store allows players to use "non" figures to play the game, a store allows customers to play on tables longer than prescribed, the store gives out too much free product...etc. All of these things might create loyalty in a core group but cause significant disruption to the corporate culture.

Often, being#1 in sales but not following the prescribed sales techniques is more likely to be seen as "money" left on the table vs. being a well run unit in a tight corporate culture.


Now terminating a successful manager for violations above is usually a long path. You try and help them understand the error of their ways and pick up the corporate standard. If after repeated attempts, you are unsuccessful, they are shown the door.

As a corporate owner, you want a good mix of toeing the line AND the self initiative to run a quality unit within boundaries you can live with.

In my experience running a retail restaurant unit for a corporation, I often found the corporation's "measures" of success to be very different to my own. However, I was always cognizant of their success measures and ensured that

In common with what others have said, I think there are two possible explanations. One, that there is more to this than we have been told, or two that GW didn't handle things as softly as they should have done. Humiliating a generally liked manager will not do anything to endear the shop to the customers who were present (and who will no doubt repeat the story to the rest of the local community). In that case, I hope that the replacement manager isn't having to work to support a family...

It makes me think that it was something so serious that they felt they had to act immediately, certainly something more than the original reason for complaint (which would surely not be grounds for dismissal on its own).

I'm the admin on the GW Voorhees page of a 130+ members on facebook,

The page exploded in an outrage as soon as the news was spread. It's not so much as what Kanluwen said below, but as the manner that he was fired in that has the community up in arms.

Kanluwen wrote:On a whim, I looked at the Facebook page.

I have never seen so many "mature adults" behaving like spoiled children.

This is why you don't air your dirty laundry in public, and especially not when you don't have all the facts. For all you know, this guy could have been fired because of any number of reasons which GW wouldn't put forward to preserve the guy's integrity.

To judge the Manager's character, I think mikhaila sums it up (As he's one of the most know FLGS owners that posts regularly on Dakkadakka):

mikhaila wrote:I've personally known this person for about 20 years. He came into my shop as a skinny 8 year old kid. Very polite person, very into his gaming. Played in a lot of GT's, paints well, low key sales techniques, very big into the hobby and running events. He was between jobs a couple of years ago and worked for me at my shops, and did a great job. He started up in Voorhees, and moved into the managers spot when they went to one person stores. On his off days he'd bring a half dozen guys over to my store to game and make scenery, buying the scenery supplies himself, and making sure his store had good tables for players to use. I'm quite shocked to see him let go by GW.

and Kanluwen, stop trolling. It's great to say "I have never seen so many "mature adults" behaving like spoiled children." when you, yourself are a blatant neckbeard troll

Ultrafool wrote:There was a situation at the local GW in Dallas Tx. The manager went out of his way and had a large group of regulars to game and shop. Certain people complained about the community and the manager and in a few months he was fired and escorted out. The group found a local comic shop and thats where we do all our gaming and buying. So my suggestion is just find a new place to play, I'm sure most local stores would like to build a large community of gamers.

I think that shop closed shortly after right?

Auxellion wrote:and Kanluwen, stop trolling. It's great to say "I have never seen so many "mature adults" behaving like spoiled children." when you, yourself are a blatant neckbeard troll

This right here is a little over the top and judging by the comment only lends credence to Kan's original statement.

Either way Polonius broke it down perfectly. Before my current job I was in retail for 10 years with several companies including Games Workshop. And what Polonius brings up is pretty spot on from my experience as well. You can hit all your numbers as a store but still be doing things that are instant terminations. Numbers aren't the only driving force for a company.

Simple question, if you were an area/regional manager (in charge of more than one store) would YOU fire a store manager for politely asking someone to stop swearing?!

Do you know anyone ever who would ever read that story and go "Yeah! He deserved to get his ass fired!"

In life in general, if something sounds ridiculous because you don't know anyone who would behave in such a strange way, then you probably need to hear another side of said story.

I don't believe this story, and whilst I feel bad for you having lost a good mate, I would be stunned to find that this is exactly what happened, because I don't know a single human that would insta-sack a guy for such a trivial and minor occurance.

Ultrafool wrote:There was a situation at the local GW in Dallas Tx. The manager went out of his way and had a large group of regulars to game and shop. Certain people complained about the community and the manager and in a few months he was fired and escorted out. The group found a local comic shop and thats where we do all our gaming and buying. So my suggestion is just find a new place to play, I'm sure most local stores would like to build a large community of gamers.

Thing is, there is no other place to play around here, other than at people's homes. There were other independent shops around but they all closed. This was a great place, that's why this is a 'deathblow'. I'm still reserving judgement until I see how the new manager runs the place and if the community sticks around.

The saddest thing, to me, is that I had just asked the manager a few weeks ago about how he liked his job. He told me it was the best thing that ever happened to him, that he didn't 'have' to go to work, he 'got' to go to work. He loves the hobby, the community, and the job. I'm sure there is more to the story like everyone is saying, but I don't believe that he was doing anything intentionally wrong that could have got him in trouble.

One thing that I just can't stop wondering is if this has anything to do with a certain someone who recently got banned. He used to be a red shirt, and just last week was banned for using loaded dice in a tournament. Maybe he knew something from his time working there and felt like ruining someone else's life out of spite? Who knows.

Further to Matty's post, there was a Stationmaster (railway) over here who got sacked for removing a trolley off the line. Company rules say that nobody goes on the lines. His defence was it was for the safety of the trains that he did it. There was big up roar in the local community about it and at first sight it appeared to be a heavy handed response. However today in the news they are saying that there was no evidence of a trolley being on the line at the time.

Hulksmash wrote:

Auxellion wrote:and Kanluwen, stop trolling. It's great to say "I have never seen so many "mature adults" behaving like spoiled children." when you, yourself are a blatant neckbeard troll

This right here is a little over the top and judging by the comment only lends credence to Kan's original statement.

Either way Polonius broke it down perfectly. Before my current job I was in retail for 10 years with several companies including Games Workshop. And what Polonius brings up is pretty spot on from my experience as well. You can hit all your numbers as a store but still be doing things that are instant terminations. Numbers aren't the only driving force for a company.

I'd also point out that in circumstances like this, the real reason for termination isn't released by either party.

The fired worker wants to maintain good standing in the community, and the company doesn't really gain anything by sharing the real reason. IN addition, companies often look bad for employing employees that commit those types of infractions.

If you're interested, you can always see how quickly he gets unemployment, if at all.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8282735_new-jersey-unemployment-rules-regulations.html

If he's cashing umemployment checks after a week, there's probably nothing to this other than a whim of GW. If he's not, there's cause for GW's action.

All i can hope is he opens another store and drives the GW out of town.

Auxellion wrote: when you, yourself are a blatant neckbeard troll

This is a violation of Rule #1. If you find another poster's post offensive, please use the Alert Moderator button. As you are an admin for another site, I'd think you could appreciate the importance of following a website's rules for posting.

Thank you.

Frazzled wrote:

Eiríkr wrote:May I have a link to ze' FaceBook page?

It is absolutely atrocious for the suits to fire a gracious and seemingly well-loved pillar of the community like this. Caring red-shirts are a rare breed.

Facebook is blindingly irrelevant. As KK noted, send a real letter. Note the amount of items you acquired from that store in the last 12 months (detail it). Then note how that income stream is gone.


Probably more to this though.

I wanted to have a look at it. I didn't mention that I was going to do anything about it. I live in the UK, as depicted by my national flag on the left, it's quite obvious really.

I am a consumer in that area. Just like Aux, Mikhaila, and several others of the local gaming community: I'm shocked. I think GW made a stupid, ill advised mistake in my opinion. The manager in question convinced me to play in his slow grow getting me back into 40K. In response he got my entire gaming club playing 40K again, which honestly only made that store profit.

We were not the only club he brought in. Honestly, there is no reason for me to drive the 45 minutes to that store any longer. The words vote with your wallet will be reinforced by myself, along with the urging of my club to purchase from 1 store in the area. Which means, yep Mike, going to help you put those kids through college

I'll be honest. I don't know the full story. Frankly, one day it will come out. But I'm not driving there, paying tolls to play. Showcase Comics offers a better selection. My club was gaming with GW Voorhees to learn 40K again, because i'll be honest, the guys at Mike C's store are really good. I needed to learn to play before heading to his events. I'd rather go get my army stomped at a Showcase GT, or 40k pick up games, instead of driving to GW Voorhees.

The sad part is. This is not the first time Coporate has fire saled that store. They did it to the Manager before MikeD (different mike then "c"). They did it to Dave. Dave was a valuable enthusiastic employee who had awesome sales, and was with the company forever. One day the decided it was cheaper to plug someone else in. That company has no loyalty. So I'll just got back to voting with my wallet, and spending money where i have loyalty.

Stoupe wrote:

mikhaila wrote:I've personally known this person for about 20 years. He came into my shop as a skinny 8 year old kid. Very polite person, very into his gaming. Played in a lot of GT's, paints well, low key sales techniques, very big into the hobby and running events. He was between jobs a couple of years ago and worked for me at my shops, and did a great job. He started up in Voorhees, and moved into the managers spot when they went to one person stores. On his off days he'd bring a half dozen guys over to my store to game and make scenery, buying the scenery supplies himself, and making sure his store had good tables for players to use. I'm quite shocked to see him let go by GW.

As are we. As are we. He was an amazing manager. As for the nay-sayers: There may be other reasons to the firing. The community was given no answers. I was there on sunday afternoon while GW kept all the community members outside for an hour while they fired him. After waiting an hour, this person tried to hold the door open for the community (while the new Black shirt and a HR person was to run the store inside), but was forced by his (former) supervisors to close the door and walk to his car. The community had to wait another half hour before they let us in (Note: The store was supposed to open at noon, No one was let in until 1:15). No answers were really given to the community unless it was "I don't know why he was let go."

This firing was a complete slap in the face to the community.

No company in their right mind would explain why they fired an employee to the general public. The main reason is they would be opening themselves up to major legal action from the fired individual. A lot of states are right to work states, which mean the employer can fire you without notice, and without cause. And they sure as heck don't have to explain to customers why they fired someone.

I understand being upset when your BFF manager gets fired. Did anyone ask him? Did he say it was because he kicked a kid out of the store? Maybe when he kicked the kid out, he put his hands on the kid? Maybe he lost his cool and told the kid to get the F out? Maybe some inventory went missing, and the firing had nothing to do with him throwing the kid out, and instead of admitting it to customers, he went with this route to save face?

I have no idea what happened, and I am not saying any of the above did happen. However, as much as you might want one, and might think you deserve one, you are not entitled to an explaination for his firing.

Hulksmash wrote:

Auxellion wrote:and Kanluwen, stop trolling. It's great to say "I have never seen so many "mature adults" behaving like spoiled children." when you, yourself are a blatant neckbeard troll

This right here is a little over the top

You have to admit, How kan gets away with the amount of trolling he does here IS one of the great mysteries of Dakka...

Guys, if you read the thread, the OP says that the manager has told him the reason for the firing, but he doesn't want to share it online. Which makes sense to me, as that's not really his call. If you didn't see it, it's a good chance to try the "filter thread" feature .

Here it is quoted, anyway:

Stoupe wrote:He has been more than appreciative of the community feedback. He has told some members of the community the reasoning, but to air it online is his choice and his choice alone. He remains a great member of the community, often posting for us and keeping in contact. He actually has been more than professional and most of the anger has come from the community and not him.

So, there probably is more to it, and I think it's true that if they were going to post about this to protest it online, it might've made sense to include the whole story if it was known. But I think it's also decent to not post everything online without the person's consent.

We're not going to know the whole story unless someone "in the know" comes forward, and even then, it probably won't be that interesting.

Obviously, GW handled this terribly. Fire the guy Sunday evening, for goodness' sake, if you have just cause. I hope he does well and that the community sticks together at a new location, if possible.

jbunny wrote:

Stoupe wrote:

mikhaila wrote:I've personally known this person for about 20 years. He came into my shop as a skinny 8 year old kid. Very polite person, very into his gaming. Played in a lot of GT's, paints well, low key sales techniques, very big into the hobby and running events. He was between jobs a couple of years ago and worked for me at my shops, and did a great job. He started up in Voorhees, and moved into the managers spot when they went to one person stores. On his off days he'd bring a half dozen guys over to my store to game and make scenery, buying the scenery supplies himself, and making sure his store had good tables for players to use. I'm quite shocked to see him let go by GW.

As are we. As are we. He was an amazing manager. As for the nay-sayers: There may be other reasons to the firing. The community was given no answers. I was there on sunday afternoon while GW kept all the community members outside for an hour while they fired him. After waiting an hour, this person tried to hold the door open for the community (while the new Black shirt and a HR person was to run the store inside), but was forced by his (former) supervisors to close the door and walk to his car. The community had to wait another half hour before they let us in (Note: The store was supposed to open at noon, No one was let in until 1:15). No answers were really given to the community unless it was "I don't know why he was let go."

This firing was a complete slap in the face to the community.

No company in their right mind would explain why they fired an employee to the general public. The main reason is they would be opening themselves up to major legal action from the fired individual. A lot of states are right to work states, which mean the employer can fire you without notice, and without cause. And they sure as heck don't have to explain to customers why they fired someone.

I understand being upset when your BFF manager gets fired. Did anyone ask him? Did he say it was because he kicked a kid out of the store? Maybe when he kicked the kid out, he put his hands on the kid? Maybe he lost his cool and told the kid to get the F out? Maybe some inventory went missing, and the firing had nothing to do with him throwing the kid out, and instead of admitting it to customers, he went with this route to save face?

I have no idea what happened, and I am not saying any of the above did happen. However, as much as you might want one, and might think you deserve one, you are not entitled to an explaination for his firing.

Just as GW shouldn't have any expectations of keeping those customers when they fire a store manager in this manner. The entire scenario could have been done after hours, instead of in front of customers. There was no reason for doing it in this callous fashion.

CT GAMER wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:

Auxellion wrote:and Kanluwen, stop trolling. It's great to say "I have never seen so many "mature adults" behaving like spoiled children." when you, yourself are a blatant neckbeard troll

This right here is a little over the top

You have to admit, How kan gets away with the amount of trolling he does here IS one of the great mysteries of Dakka...

Thats easy, he smiles and walks down some stairs while doing the "haters gonna hate" thing. It stops people in their tracks.

On topic, My sympathy to the community there.

RiTides wrote:Guys, if you read the thread, the OP says that the manager has told him the reason for the firing, but he doesn't want to share it online. Which makes sense to me, as that's not really his call. If you didn't see it, it's a good chance to try the "filter thread" feature .

The why did the OP post a quote claiming it was purely and only because of this 'cursing' individual who was asked to leave the store?

If he knows other reasons but is not cleared to disclose, then why disclose anything or purposefully disclose an irrelevant situation which had nothing to do with the situation? And if it was the only justification why not disclose there are no other extenuating circumstances?

I don't really get it... if the manager who was fired doesn't want to disclose it online, then all these other people shouldn't be blowing up forums and facebook with false or erroneous stories which had nothing to do with the firing. It really doesn't help anyone or the situation. If the person doesn't want it discussed online, then don't run out and make a thread about it?

Polonius wrote:I agree with Hulksmash.

There is always more to stories like this.

Always.

Well, yes and no.

Yes there is likely more, but what more there may be might well be shockingly underwhelming to result in this guy getting shunted.

I was once told about a 'commissar' rule run by a regional manager, to his district managers to their store managers in GW US. This consisted of the regional forcing his districts to instruct their store managers to grant 'the emperor's grace' to the lowest selling employee periodically. Their customer service, timekeeping, hobby skills, professionalism and other factors were irrelevant, store managers were forced to fire the lowest seller in their store to inspire fear in the rest of the minions.

I've read Kirby's 'little red book' and it's Gordon Gekko red braces and brick sized phones mantras of the worst kind.

So yes, probably more to it than telling off kids for swearing, but whether the real reason has any place in real world business is quite another thing.

nkelsch wrote:The why did the OP post a quote claiming it was purely and only because of this 'cursing' individual who was asked to leave the store?

If he knows other reasons but is not cleared to disclose, then why disclose anything or purposefully disclose an irrelevant situation which had nothing to do with the situation? And if it was the only justification why not disclose there are no other extenuating circumstances?

I don't really get it... if the manager who was fired doesn't want to disclose it online, then all these other people shouldn't be blowing up forums and facebook with false or erroneous stories which had nothing to do with the firing. It really doesn't help anyone or the situation. If the person doesn't want it discussed online, then don't run out and make a thread about it?

I posted the quote as I felt it was an eloquently stated case that was more true than false. I felt it was the best way to inform everyone what happened and to start the discussion from there. I did not feel like writing yet another letter as mine to GW was very personal. This quote was a lot less of a personal story than mine. At the time of the original posting, any story I wrote would have been tainted by my own emotion at the time.

As for "nothing to do with the firing" this is not exactly true. It is, from my information, 90% of the reason he was let go and one of the reasons he felt appropriate to disclose.

Lorek wrote:

Auxellion wrote: when you, yourself are a blatant neckbeard troll

This is a violation of Rule #1. If you find another poster's post offensive, please use the Alert Moderator button. As you are an admin for another site, I'd think you could appreciate the importance of following a website's rules for posting.

Thank you.

I'll be sure to do that

- On the actual topic, I've been trying to "Clean up" some of the rants/accusations on the alternate GW-V Fan page I made before the actual corporation's incarnation of it. GW will mostly ignore anything on FB, as well as anything on forums. What the community needs is a few dozen or so letters sent to GW as formal complaints.

From what people have been saying it seems as though that this man had excellent customer relations skills.

This is great, very important. There are tons of reasons however one could be fired, and fired in such a sever manner and still be well liked by customers.

For instance, it could be possible that this man was consistently doing his money incorrectly. Even if there was no malicious intent, that is a very serious problem. I know I could fired for small things like not marking bills that are larger than 20s. He could not be balancing his stuff correctly, incorrectly using store funds, not keeping inventory, so on and so forth.

As for being fired in the middle of the day, that is actually fairly normal in the united states. I know HR people, and as many others have stated firing procedures that are used for a reason (firing him in the day in front of his community gave him and incentive to not do anything crazy).

Points is you can be a nice, well liked guy, and still make job-threatening mistakes. Record keeping, wise decision making, and following the rules are just as important as customer relation skills.

nkelsch wrote:

RiTides wrote:Guys, if you read the thread, the OP says that the manager has told him the reason for the firing, but he doesn't want to share it online. Which makes sense to me, as that's not really his call. If you didn't see it, it's a good chance to try the "filter thread" feature .

The why did the OP post a quote claiming it was purely and only because of this 'cursing' individual who was asked to leave the store?

If he knows other reasons but is not cleared to disclose, then why disclose anything or purposefully disclose an irrelevant situation which had nothing to do with the situation? And if it was the only justification why not disclose there are no other extenuating circumstances?

I don't really get it... if the manager who was fired doesn't want to disclose it online, then all these other people shouldn't be blowing up forums and facebook with false or erroneous stories which had nothing to do with the firing. It really doesn't help anyone or the situation. If the person doesn't want it discussed online, then don't run out and make a thread about it?

So if say the fired manager posted all over forums/complained on the internet, how will that bode for GW if he wishes to sue/argue his termination from the company? That would be obnoxious;possibly the worst thing he could do.

Let it play out for a few days and see what happens.

Auxellion wrote:

So if say the fired manager posted all over forums/complained on the internet, how will that bode for GW if he wishes to sue/argue his termination from the company? That would be obnoxious;possibly the worst thing he could do.

Let it play out for a few days and see what happens.

LOL, at-will state... You think he has any rights or recourse?

You can't have it both ways... someone cannot post a thread claiming he was fired for 'reason A' and then claim he can't disclose why he was fired at the request of the person. Either he was fired for asking a rude cursing customer to leave, or he was fired for other reasons. Suggesting it to be A but knowing B C and D is dishonest to me. If he can't disclose B C and D, because he was asked not to, he should have just kept it to himself.

Either way, it is distasteful for him to be advertising this guys situation if he doesn't want it discussed on the net.

I thought his reply to your post summed it up well, nkelsch. Not saying your post isn't valid, and I thought your previous one brought up some very good points, but he did reply. Also pointing out, which I didn't realize, that he simply copied a post from facebook to here- it wasn't his own words, as he says, his own letter to GW was too personal to share.

Quoted below... and again, that's not to say I disagree with your points, as they are valid.

Stoupe wrote:

nkelsch wrote:The why did the OP post a quote claiming it was purely and only because of this 'cursing' individual who was asked to leave the store?

If he knows other reasons but is not cleared to disclose, then why disclose anything or purposefully disclose an irrelevant situation which had nothing to do with the situation? And if it was the only justification why not disclose there are no other extenuating circumstances?

I don't really get it... if the manager who was fired doesn't want to disclose it online, then all these other people shouldn't be blowing up forums and facebook with false or erroneous stories which had nothing to do with the firing. It really doesn't help anyone or the situation. If the person doesn't want it discussed online, then don't run out and make a thread about it?

I posted the quote as I felt it was an eloquently stated case that was more true than false. I felt it was the best way to inform everyone what happened and to start the discussion from there. I did not feel like writing yet another letter as mine to GW was very personal. This quote was a lot less of a personal story than mine. At the time of the original posting, any story I wrote would have been tainted by my own emotion at the time.

As for "nothing to do with the firing" this is not exactly true. It is, from my information, 90% of the reason he was let go and one of the reasons he felt appropriate to disclose.