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Mr Hyena wrote:

Hiding in plain sight is the best plan of all. Be where you are not expected to be.

Maybe in Movies/Books/Video Games. The fact is, anyone could have seen him.

I highly doubt it is as effective and efficient as the British or American ones.

Then its clear the bigger problem for Pakistan should be working on its intelligence agency, considering its caused a diplomatic incident it will never be forgiven for.

Which incident would that be?

As for the 24 soldiers killed on Pakistan side. Anyone here knows RoE for the coalition forces? It was Pakistan forces that engaged and upped the stake by bringing crew serve weapons into the mix.

edit
Insurgent comes arm with ZPU1 and ZPU4 heavy weapons.

Goliath wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

Hiding in plain sight is the best plan of all. Be where you are not expected to be.

Maybe in Movies/Books/Video Games. The fact is, anyone could have seen him.

I highly doubt it is as effective and efficient as the British or American ones.

Then its clear the bigger problem for Pakistan should be working on its intelligence agency, considering its caused a diplomatic incident it will never be forgiven for.

Which incident would that be?

The fact Bin Laden was found chilling in their country, and nothing was done about it.

Mr Hyena wrote:

Goliath wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

Hiding in plain sight is the best plan of all. Be where you are not expected to be.

Maybe in Movies/Books/Video Games. The fact is, anyone could have seen him.

I highly doubt it is as effective and efficient as the British or American ones.

Then its clear the bigger problem for Pakistan should be working on its intelligence agency, considering its caused a diplomatic incident it will never be forgiven for.

Which incident would that be?

The fact Bin Laden was found chilling in their country, and nothing was done about it.

He was found "chilling" in their country by the US, who then launched a raid to get him, not by the pakistani government.

Goliath wrote:He was found "chilling" in their country by the US, who then launched a raid to get him, not by the pakistani government.

The problem is that given his location, it's very improbable that Pakistan's government didn't know he was there, to the extent you can talk about Pakistan's government as if it has a single mind and combined goals.

Unless the Pakistani military go door to door daily looking for terror suspects, I can't see how Bin Laden's whereabouts would be so very obvious to anyone, especially if he had a dogsbody do all his shopping. Its not as if he was wandering the streets, and even if he were.. a bearded Muslim wouldn't be particularly noteworthy in most English cities. Why would it be noteworthy in Pakistan of all places?

ArbeitsSchu wrote:Why would it be noteworthy in Pakistan of all places?

Because he was the most famous Terrorist in the world and is a 1.5 feet taller than everyone else around him?

Because he had a fortified compound with armed men coming and going within the shadow of a supposedly secure military base?

Just for starters...

dogma wrote:

LordofHats wrote:Turkey isn't technically part of Europe, but is often talked about alongside Europe because of the interconnections between the two. Similar is true of Pakistan and the Middle East.

The only people I've ever heard talk about Pakistan as part of the Middle East are the same people that can be expected to say "Lol, Muslims are brown!"

The term "middle east" generally refers to Northern Africa and Southwest Asia. It's a rough cultural grouping, not a discrete landmass.

This is a problematic development, since the assassination of hostile warlords via drone is the only effective means of combating the local issues, since manned missions are too slow and expensive to wipe them out fast enough to deplete their numbers, however illegal it may be. The only options are to ignore Pakistan's complaints and keep running missions, or strong arm them into rescinding them, which would be problematic in and of itself, since they have nuclear weapons. Unlike Iran, whose regular military could be annihilated in days with minimal US losses, Pakistan has the potential to cause a lot of damage if it panics.

Pakistan will shoot down any U.S. drone that intrudes its air space per new directives, a senior Pakistani official told NBC News on Saturday.

Good for them.

I saw the Pakistani PM interviewed on the BBC, he seemed pretty even handed in his presentation of the situation. Certainly none of the sabre rattling that we see in this thread.

The up shot of a this is that I am rather more concerned for the British Forces in the zone that are more reliant of the Pakistani supply route. An excuse for early withdrawal or perhaps a reduction in Ops?

CT GAMER wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:Why would it be noteworthy in Pakistan of all places?

Because he was the most famous Terrorist in the world and is a 1.5 feet taller than everyone else around him?

Because he had a fortified compound with armed men coming and going within the shadow of a supposedly secure military base?

Just for starters...

Most famous in the west. Do you watch Pakistani TV? Do you know how much air-time he did or did not get? For that matter do you know how common "Compound" type buildings are in Pakistan? Armed security guards? Have a look on Google maps. The house isn't unique.There is a house just down the road with what appears to be a decent sized wall around it which could just as easily be hiding any number of terrorists. For that matter, "compound" style houses are common everywhere. I can think of a fair few near me, and up until recently I lived "in the shadow" of a military base as well. We used to skive school ON the base.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have been able to detect something suspicious per se..and indeed there must have been something significant for the US Forces to seize upon in the first place... but I don't doubt for a minute that there are military bases and townships, police stations and government buildings the world over sharing real estate space with all manner of unpleasant characters, with very few clues as to their presence, especially if they are reclusive and making a determined effort to not be found.

especially if they are reclusive and making a determined effort to not be found.

Or if they've been giving the military a fat wad of cash.

Mr Hyena wrote:

especially if they are reclusive and making a determined effort to not be found.

Or if they've been giving the military a fat wad of cash.

I know he was rich, but you're seriously suggesting that he had enough money to bribe an entire branch of the pakistani government?

To be fair, he only had to be giving back-handers to the local police, and they didn't have to be privy to who he was. "We would appreciate if you were to patrol more vigorously on THAT side of town, do we have an understanding?" *notes change hands*

Goliath wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

especially if they are reclusive and making a determined effort to not be found.

Or if they've been giving the military a fat wad of cash.

I know he was rich, but you're seriously suggesting that he had enough money to bribe an entire branch of the pakistani government?

Of course. Its a conspiracy!

Goliath wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

especially if they are reclusive and making a determined effort to not be found.

Or if they've been giving the military a fat wad of cash.

I know he was rich, but you're seriously suggesting that he had enough money to bribe an entire branch of the pakistani government?

You don't need to bribe the entire branch, if their intel department is as pathetic as it sounds.

To clarify: The "base" in question is basically a Pakistani military school, like West Point. I admit I'm not overly familiar with American military cadet training programs, but I would be most surprised if it involved house-to-house searching the local area for terrorists. Thus its equally unlikely that the Pakistani version does either.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have been able to detect something suspicious per se..and indeed there must have been something significant for the US Forces to seize upon in the first place...

Exactly.

I didn't realize that Bin laden was an unknown in pakistan.

I guess he never had any luck get a hit single on the Pakistani charts. Too bad because he had some fat beats and great coreography...

You don't need to bribe anyone at all, as long as you keep private in your walled compound.

Do you think that wanted criminals walk around with a sign like this above their heads?

CT GAMER wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have been able to detect something suspicious per se..and indeed there must have been something significant for the US Forces to seize upon in the first place...

Exactly.

I didn't realize that Bin laden was an unknown in pakistan.

I guess he never had any luck get a hit single on the Pakistani charts. Too bad because he had some fat beats and great coreography...

Someone who wants to hide, spends years actively hiding, and fits the basic racial descriptors for half the world. I'm not sure what you aren't understanding about this? Even if you had seen someone who you thought looked like Bin Laden anywhere in the world in the street, would you really be so very sure of yourself that you would inform the FBI/CIA/MI5/Whoever, and that they would then not file that sighting in with all the other lunatic rubbish they must hear every day of the week?

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have been able to detect something suspicious per se..and indeed there must have been something significant for the US Forces to seize upon in the first place...

Exactly.

I didn't realize that Bin laden was an unknown in pakistan.

I guess he never had any luck get a hit single on the Pakistani charts. Too bad because he had some fat beats and great coreography...

Someone who wants to hide, spends years actively hiding, and fits the basic racial descriptors for half the world. I'm not sure what you aren't understanding about this? Even if you had seen someone who you thought looked like Bin Laden anywhere in the world in the street, would you really be so very sure of yourself that you would inform the FBI/CIA/MI5/Whoever, and that they would then not file that sighting in with all the other lunatic rubbish they must hear every day of the week?

I guess it would depend on how badly I wanted the $25 million dollar bounty, or if I actually supported/feared/sympathized with him and his terror organization or not...

CT GAMER wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have been able to detect something suspicious per se..and indeed there must have been something significant for the US Forces to seize upon in the first place...

Exactly.

I didn't realize that Bin laden was an unknown in pakistan.

I guess he never had any luck get a hit single on the Pakistani charts. Too bad because he had some fat beats and great coreography...

Someone who wants to hide, spends years actively hiding, and fits the basic racial descriptors for half the world. I'm not sure what you aren't understanding about this? Even if you had seen someone who you thought looked like Bin Laden anywhere in the world in the street, would you really be so very sure of yourself that you would inform the FBI/CIA/MI5/Whoever, and that they would then not file that sighting in with all the other lunatic rubbish they must hear every day of the week?

I guess it would depend on how badly I wanted the $25 million dollar bounty, or if I actually supported/feared/sympathized with him and his terror organization or not...

Or if you even knew that it was him hiding in the house in the first place?

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one...

Do you commonly report people who live in large houses you are n't allowed to go in for being international terrorists?

Wow, he's trying really hard isn't he?

It's unlikely that someone didn't know that OBL was living right down the street from a military base. Possible, surely, but unlikely.

Monster Rain wrote:Wow, he's trying really hard isn't he?

I thought it was common understanding that when one person says "we will just have to agree to disagree" that they are communicating a desire to cease discussion because they have had their fill of whatever crazy it is that someone is selling?

LordofHats wrote:

Goliath wrote:He was found "chilling" in their country by the US, who then launched a raid to get him, not by the pakistani government.

The problem is that given his location, it's very improbable that Pakistan's government didn't know he was there, to the extent you can talk about Pakistan's government as if it has a single mind and combined goals.

Well, I think in that final comment you have pointed out the issue with regards to Pakistan. Their government treads an extremely fine line between a rock and a hard place, the West on one hand and foreign aid and relations which will help their economy, and on the other hand Islamic militancy. Apparently some high ranking general knew of Bin Laden hiding in Pakistan. Almost certainly more knew, but the government has to turn a blind eye to it; official condemnation would be tantamount to political suicide.

I'm sure on some level the US administration must understand this, and the need for Pakistan to be (at least officially) on side with them, and hence the complete lack of belligerent rhetoric from the US following the drone being shot down.

It was reported that the ISI arrested informants who helped find Osama... that's a pretty big clue towards "They knew he was there"

Source-http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-06-15/us/29660893_1_informants-bin-isi

Monster Rain wrote:Wow, he's trying really hard isn't he?

It's unlikely that someone didn't know that OBL was living right down the street from a military base. Possible, surely, but unlikely.

Military school. And its not exactly all that close. Go look for yourself.

CT GAMER wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Wow, he's trying really hard isn't he?

I thought it was common understanding that when one person says "we will just have to agree to disagree" that they are communicating a desire to cease discussion because they have had their fill of whatever crazy it is that someone is selling?

It was certainly my interpretation.