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zeekill wrote:

Da Boss wrote:My experience with trolls would lead me to believe that you're better off without the starter. Get a heavy (a mauler is usual) and a couple of lights (Axer + something else) and a caster. Trolls are the most expensive faction $$ wise, so be prepared for that.

What about the fellblades and whelps? Are they useful or would it really be better for me to start off with single boxes of other models?

Even with the free rulebook included?

If I get an axer and impaler in the box (I can use a second impaler to start and then trade/sell it later I suppose) that covers the lights. Though at this point I am just guessing off of what you are saying, I don't know whether or not any of these units are any good together as I haven't even played WM/H yet.

Is the caster in the battle box any good?

I don't know, I really like the way trolls look and (as far as what I've seen from beginner's guides) how they play (heavy CC with some powerful but inaccurate or sparse shooting right?), but if they are both the most expensive $ army and their summer deal isn't very good, then idk.

As a backup plan, what about the Legion and Circle battle boxes?

You'll get a lot of use out of everything else in the Trollblood bundle. Especially if it's the army you like the look of I'd say go for it. Play style is mostly as you describe. Casters really tweak how your army plays in Warmachine/Hordes, so there's a lot of leeway within that broad description.

The Legion bundle is good. The Circle bundle has similar issues to the Trolls in that you aren't likely to use two Argus' in 35 points games once you get a few games in, but is otherwise good.

zeekill wrote:

Da Boss wrote:My experience with trolls would lead me to believe that you're better off without the starter. Get a heavy (a mauler is usual) and a couple of lights (Axer + something else) and a caster. Trolls are the most expensive faction $$ wise, so be prepared for that.

What about the fellblades and whelps? Are they useful or would it really be better for me to start off with single boxes of other models?

Even with the free rulebook included?

If I get an axer and impaler in the box (I can use a second impaler to start and then trade/sell it later I suppose) that covers the lights. Though at this point I am just guessing off of what you are saying, I don't know whether or not any of these units are any good together as I haven't even played WM/H yet.

Is the caster in the battle box any good?

I don't know, I really like the way trolls look and (as far as what I've seen from beginner's guides) how they play (heavy CC with some powerful but inaccurate or sparse shooting right?), but if they are both the most expensive $ army and their summer deal isn't very good, then idk.

As a backup plan, what about the Legion and Circle battle boxes?

All of these packages have been built with the starter boxes and then filled up with units and solos that are some of the most used in their respective factions.

So yes, the Trollblood bundle is a very good one. You probably won't use that second Impaler often but the same can be said of every starter box. You probably will wan't to buy an Heavy Warbeast further down the road but the units and solos are faction "must haves" as far as that concept can be applied to Warmahordes.

At this point you are better of taking advantage of this deal if you are just starting the game, doesn't matter if Jamie Perkins or Neutralize themselves built a list of stuff for you to buy, you would still get crushed by most people...

zeekill wrote:

Da Boss wrote:My experience with trolls would lead me to believe that you're better off without the starter. Get a heavy (a mauler is usual) and a couple of lights (Axer + something else) and a caster. Trolls are the most expensive faction $$ wise, so be prepared for that.

What about the fellblades and whelps? Are they useful or would it really be better for me to start off with single boxes of other models?

The fellblades and whelps are very good, The Whelps help with fury management, healing, and general annoyance (They literally have an ability called annoying which gives -1MAT to anything within an inch of the whelp). You can deploy them on the board like any other unit, or keep them off the board to pop out of warbeasts when they get injured, which sets you up to either a)smash them if you fail a frenzy check or b) eat them and heal 1d3 worth of damage points. If you place them on the board from a warbeast, your whelps can be placed anywhere within 2 inches of the warbeast, meaning you can block charge lanes, annoying something that might not always hit your warbeast. They're fun to play

The Fellblades are a very good unit especially if you wrap them around Madrak, and leave the Fell Caller Hero near by. The Fellblades have vengeance and reach (if 1 member of the unit dies, they get a free 3 inches of movement followed by an attack during the early steps of your turn and reach allows them to attack anything 2 inches away). Combine that with Tough and you've got a good tarpit unit. The Fell Caller Hero is great in melee with 2 attacks (rolling 3 dice instead of 2 on damage if I remember correctly), and he can buff a nearby unit by giving them pathfinder, having them stand up from being knocked down (which happens if they make a tough roll), or he gives them bonuses to melee attacks.

If you really want your Fellblades to be annoying, cast Sure foot on Madrak or someone nearby him which gives a bonus to defense and prevents models from being knocked down within 3 inches of the model it was cast on, this is an upkeep spell, so it's good to cast on turn 1 and keep it up as long as you need it to.

Note: The Runebearer is awesome because he can cast one of Madrak's spells for free.... which if I remember can be Sure foot.

Even with the free rulebook included?

Still worth it... almost even more so.

If I get an axer and impaler in the box (I can use a second impaler to start and then trade/sell it later I suppose) that covers the lights. Though at this point I am just guessing off of what you are saying, I don't know whether or not any of these units are any good together as I haven't even played WM/H yet.

Pick up a heavy warbeast kit. The Mauler is good, and can give him or someone else +3 strength which means his Big Meaty Claw is hitting at P+S 19 (have a caster cast this on him if you want), the other two beasts you can make from the kit are also good, but the Mauler has a special place in my heart.

Is the caster in the battle box any good?

pMadrak is... balanced (at least from my opinion of using him for months on end >_< He doesn't deal a lot with fancy spells, his three spells are good for what he wants to do. Carnage gives him and anything within 10 inches a bonus to their MAT (same number that the Fell Caller gives), this is good with his feat turn, or if the Fell Caller needs to stand up a unit). Sure Footed, like I said gives a DEF bonus and prevents you from being Knocked down, this helps with tough rolls which forces a unit to either move or attack once they stand up, if they can't be knocked down, then it isn't an issue . Be warned, this is only 3 inches... His final spell is Stranglehold, which forces the model you cast it on to forgo movement or action it's next activation which can help keep things alive for an additional turn.

Madrak's feat works well with Carnage, the Fell Caller and Fennblades, give them +2 MAT, and give your models a free inch of movement and attack after they kill something? That means you're probably going to wade through infantry.

The downside to all of this is that Madrak doesn't get a lot of fury to himself. On your feat turn you might spend 3 or 4 fury (can't remember the fury cost of Carnage atm), leaving Madrak with 1 or 2 to fury to himself. Meaning if he gets hit you might not have the fury to transfer off, he does have a scroll that he can use which prevents all incoming damage, but you have to use it before damage is rolled.

So I find Madrak pretty balanced, and often switch off between him and epic Doomshaper.

I'm going to take the plunge. Currently, and I'm sure this is common, I'm desirous of a Jack heavy army. I don't know anything about PP armies, but have been told that Proctorate is a good army for heavy Jack use.
Is that right?
Are there other armies that can go Jack heavy and compete?

matphat wrote:I'm going to take the plunge. Currently, and I'm sure this is common, I'm desirous of a Jack heavy army. I don't know anything about PP armies, but have been told that Proctorate is a good army for heavy Jack use.
Is that right?
Are there other armies that can go Jack heavy and compete?

Yes, Protectorate is the faction that usually plays more jack heavy.

But every faction in the game will have at least a couple of warcasters that are more than able to support a mostly jack army.

Cool.
Do you have any suggestions for alternatives to Protectorate?

matphat wrote:Cool.
Do you have any suggestions for alternatives to Protectorate?

Not really, like I said, every other faction has casters capable of running jack heavy, its just a matter of you choosing which faction you like best.

Woo! Good to know. Thank you.

Also, am I right when I see that most of the models in those sets are metal?
Is that right?

zeekill: I don't mean to put you off trolls- I play them myself and I think they are piles of fun.

The sale deals are good for a newbie no matter what faction you pick, the Trollblood lack of heavy is going to be an issue from the Battlebox anyway. Fennblades are a great unit, same goes for the Fell Caller and Whelps are my favourite beast support. The three give you a good taste of what Trolls are all about- Beefy, medium based infantry that can tarpit, board control and dish it out. Solos that support and synergise with units. The Axer is in my view a must have light- I would almost always find a place for one in my lists. Madrak is a solid caster who likes infantry (so Fenns are good for him) and he himself is really tough. He's a bit of an exemplar troll caster to my mind (though it's arguable that there aren't any exemplars as each one changes the game so much.).
Impalers go well with Madrak, Grim and Gunnbjorn. They're not a bad light, I often take one (Grim is my favourite 'lock). I just think two is overkill. With the new plastics, you might be able to convert one into a bouncer with a couple of bits and some creativity (a bouncer is another troll light that uses a heavy shield and a chain weapon, it's defensive and would add more versatility. Depends on how tolerant the local meta is of conversions.)

But whatever happens, to properly experience playing as Trollbloods, you need a Dire Troll.
Mauler: Bog standard beatstick, cheap enough and reasonably versatile. Buffs strength.
Blitzer: Less of a beatstick but with some pretty decent anti infantry shooting.
Bomber: Less of a beatstick with some great anti infantry shooting and a decent animus for larger games.
Mulg: King Beatstick, slow and expensive but hits like two tonnes of bricks being driven in a freight train made of pain. (I <3 mulg)
Earthborn Dire Troll: Funny one, strengths are situational. Can be fast, tough and incredibly strong with the right set up, kind of exemplifies trollblood playstyle in a warbeast. My favourite to use with Grim.
Rok: No experience with him, sadly.

For a new player, I'd recommend a Bomber or a Mauler. Starter + rules is good value and an extra heavy won't break the bank. Plus, most of your stuff will be plastic, which I think is a huge bonus!

Some nifty deals. must resist getting a new game.

Acardia wrote:Trashy. I loathe when a company uses Memorial Day for commerical reasons.

Really? Trashy? not really. you must have lots to loathe in your life.

Anyone have any input on which of these armies would be a nice combo of shooty and Jack heavy?
I'm about to buy and I'd like to know I'm stepping in to an army I'd enjoy playing.
I'm an Ork player, and want to make sure I don't stumble in to a similarly themed army in this game.

Any army can run Jack heavy with the right caster, Cygnar are generally seen as the shooty faction but Khador can do shooty too.

Thank you to all that helped me out. I'm going to get a Troll Summer Sale Starter and a Dire Troll (to be magnetized). Anyone have any conversion tips to make an impaler into a bouncer? (Sorry if off topic, if so then ignore me )

Also are swamp trolls and pyre trolls any good? They look like they have some interesting abilities (please tell me the swamp troll can grab people with its tongue!)

zeekill wrote:Thank you to all that helped me out. I'm going to get a Troll Summer Sale Starter and a Dire Troll (to be magnetized). Anyone have any conversion tips to make an impaler into a bouncer? (Sorry if off topic, if so then ignore me )

Also are swamp trolls and pyre trolls any good? They look like they have some interesting abilities (please tell me the swamp troll can grab people with its tongue!)

You might want to go ask our friends down in the WM/H sub-forum

Note: Magnetizing the Troll plastic kit is... "fun" lol did it a few weeks ago.

Swamp and Pyre are both good, in their own ways.
Pyre has an AoE ranged attack and does fire damage. It's not great in a fight or that good a shot, but it can do some damage, at least. It's animus gives a bonus to damage to a single model.
Swamp is amphibious, has again moderate stats, and can indeed eat people with his tongue (on a critical hit). He has a defensive animus I believe, making it harder to hit your dudes. (Which is quite nifty, on trolls).

As for converting the Impaler, well, the hand holding the spear could be clipped and a small chain glued or pinned in place (with a spikey ball at the end, or even just a big lump of metal). The hand held out to the front could have a big shield strapped to it. Dunno where you'd get a suitable shield, you'd probably have to make one or scrounge it out of bitz. But it wouldn't be a major job. I'd probably see if I could find any armour-y bitz to stick onto him, too, to bulk him up (the bouncer wears more armour than the impaler).

The Impaler is the one with the spear there, you can see the pose I'm talking about.
This is the standard bouncer. Yours would have it's chain held higher, but it's still a full blood troll with a ball and chain. He is wearing more armour, though.

Nobody should quibble an full blood with a chain weapon and a big shield as anything other than a bouncer.

matphat wrote:Cool.
Do you have any suggestions for alternatives to Protectorate?

Khador, led by Karchev, can be almost entirely warjacks. (Karchev + multiple berserkers = lots of axe to face)

azazel the cat wrote:

matphat wrote:Cool.
Do you have any suggestions for alternatives to Protectorate?

Khador, led by Karchev, can be almost entirely warjacks. (Karchev + multiple berserkers = lots of axe to face)

pButcher can also be fun with all jacks... he's not what everyone might think of for a jack heavy khador force, but his feat is really good with all jacks.

matphat wrote:Anyone have any input on which of these armies would be a nice combo of shooty and Jack heavy?
I'm about to buy and I'd like to know I'm stepping in to an army I'd enjoy playing.
I'm an Ork player, and want to make sure I don't stumble in to a similarly themed army in this game.

Menoth or Cygnar or Retribution (do they have a bundle as well???), can do warjacks + shooty pretty well.

Also Khador to a point... Pretty much everyone except for Cryx can make a competitive warjack + shooty army.

Well, PP can send another thank you note to GW. I just purchased the Scorn summer sale army deal and am looking forward to getting some games in next week if it arrives quickly enough.

Breotan wrote:Well, PP can send another thank you note to GW. I just purchased the Scorn summer sale army deal and am looking forward to getting some games in next week if it arrives quickly enough.

Pssst... Its Skorne, not Scorn...

Hey! I spelled it right somewhere else, in one of the warmahordes forums. ;p

Hey all, I think I'm going to jump on this sale.
Looking at Protectorate.
I was thinking of getting the two player starter to split with a friend of mine and adding the bundle to it.
Would you consider that to be a nice complete army?
Or are there things I might still want/need to fill it out?

doesn't that get you the battlebox double? I don't think that's all that useful. could be mistaken though.

matphat wrote:Hey all, I think I'm going to jump on this sale.
Looking at Protectorate.
I was thinking of getting the two player starter to split with a friend of mine and adding the bundle to it.
Would you consider that to be a nice complete army?
Or are there things I might still want/need to fill it out?

Hm. Well, you have the following overlaps:

2 Crusaders
2 pKreoss
2 units of Bastions

The 2 crusaders you could fix by buying the Menoth plastic Heavy Warjack kit and magnetizing each heavy warjack you get, since they're all on the same chassis. You could probably trade a Kreoss to someone who another Warcaster, maybe. And the 2 units of Bastions... well, I'm not a Menoth player myself, but there's got to be a caster who wants 2 units of medium-base infantry who costs a heavy warjacks for a unit each and has a statline like a Paladin, right?

Well I ordered by stuff the first day of the sale and received my 4 boxes of grind today.

Stupidly large Khador force here I come!

Foda_Bett wrote:Well I ordered by stuff the first day of the sale and received my 4 boxes of grind today.

Stupidly large Khador force here I come!

You... you have other stuff, right?

@infinite_array

how well would one khador deal plus khador elements from the two player box work?
been thinking about starting WM for ages, this might put me over.

infinite_array wrote:

Foda_Bett wrote:Well I ordered by stuff the first day of the sale and received my 4 boxes of grind today.

Stupidly large Khador force here I come!

You... you have other stuff, right?

40 Man-O-War and a couple of other units.

ThomasPolder wrote:@infinite_array

how well would one khador deal plus khador elements from the two player box work?
been thinking about starting WM for ages, this might put me over.

The issue is that with both the Khador/Menoth Deals and the starter set your getting double the battlebox contents.. which unlike other games isn't really that great of an option. If its Khador your after, you are better off getting the Khador bundle and not getting the 2 player box.

Cyporiean wrote:

ThomasPolder wrote:@infinite_array

how well would one khador deal plus khador elements from the two player box work?
been thinking about starting WM for ages, this might put me over.

The issue is that with both the Khador/Menoth Deals and the starter set your getting double the battlebox contents.. which unlike other games isn't really that great of an option. If its Khador your after, you are better off getting the Khador bundle and not getting the 2 player box.

I think the Khador half of the two player box + the summer deal actually works out pretty well. The only thing you double up on that you'll never use is Sorcha. Having 2 Juggernaughts and 2 Destroyers isn't a bad thing, especially when you are a few bitz away from turning any of them in to Marauders, Decimators, Torch, Black Ivan, or (with some work) Beast.

The Menoth side of things is a bit of a flop because you are tying yourself to 2 units of Bastions, Khador gets a nice range of infantry between the two deals.