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dicebucket.com

You're welcome

I'll absolutely stick with 40K and the Specialist games after this new damn robbery of my pockets.

Ill just barely be getting anything new, that's all. I'll get some more Eldar and Necron stuff to finish off my in-progress armies, and then play with what I have. I have two marine armies that don't need any expanding, so their price hike doesn't affect me. New additions for armies will come from e-bay, and if I really want the game to feel different, I will play skirmish games back in the Rogue Trader 1st edition rules, or do what I've always meant to do and go online and track down enough material for a working version of 2nd edition.

Hell, as it is, my buddy and I never went over to 5th edition. We still play with the 4th edition rules, and it's combo of 3rd/4th edition codexi.

When I get around to buying either a Triarch stalker, or a Night Scythe, I'll then be using VDR rules to field them alongside my metal models with the previous codex!!

You can easily stick the finger to GW and still play the game you love. Their higher-ups being d-bags nowadays doesn't stop all the love I've had for the game in the years up until now.

It's all well and good for you guys that are already into 40k and already have a lot of it but ti's going to be really hard for new people to get into it. I know when my kids get old enough to want to play I'm going to tell them get three or four paper boy jobs and then they can do it.

I have not purchased a gw model since the last price raise. I do not see anything that will change that anytime soon.

Little a year into the hobby and my family has amassed a cumulative 35,000 points. Most bought second handed and cheap. However, we love the game and will keep on playing and buying just enough to keep the local GW open. Without it, it kind of goes to basement gaming....something not as enjoyable.

My Ork army is at round 3000pts and finished.
I have Speed Freeks, Kanwall, BattleWagons, and Bikers, all to 1500.
I've been done buying from GW for about 6 months.
Unless the 6th Ed. rules make fliers mandatory, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did, I am done with GW.
Currently I'm reading the Warmachine rules, and putting together my half of the starter box.

nekronuke wrote:dicebucket.com

You're welcome

Or just not buy anything GW at all. Ever. They still get a percentage of profits from the sale at an indie (just not the 100% they get from direct sales). Hit them at their bottom line, don't be like a crack addict trying to find his "fix" elsewhere. There is a stickied thread at the top of this very forum with a whole wealth of alternate systems to try out. Vote with your wallet and make them feel it in their financials, as this is the only place where a difference can be made.

nekronuke wrote:dicebucket.com

You're welcome

If you're only looking to save money, there are plenty of online discounters, including dicebucket. But don't be sad when your local store goes out of business.

If you are going to stop buying because you object to the GW price increase, buying on ebay, dicebucket, amazon, or any other online retailer isn't going to change anything. GW is perfectly happy if you buy your products from other retailers (I suspect GW's mail order and retail stores aren't nearly as profitable as non-GW stores).

I stopped being able to afford the game like 2 price raises ago and the bad rules keep me from using my massive collection of existing armies.

That being said I might buy an ork flier to paint. Could be a cool display piece.

I am going to keep playing, may cut back my spending a little bit, but the increase will not make me quit.

I don't like "wargames", I just like Warhammer/Warhammer 40k. So, I will keep buying their products at a rate given by my personal economy. I don't buy minis based on needed points, but I buy them based on disposable incomes. So whether they rise prices, I'll get less miniatures.

In case GW disappeared, I wouldn't switch to another company. I would just look for another hobby or keep playing last editions to the end of days.

Here is a different POV than what has been said on this thread.

I play in an area with few 40k players. I was working hard to grow our community and it was getting traction. When last years price increase happened We lost traction due to sticker shock and the fact that their hobby dollar didn't go as far.

If you remember PP also had their summer sale last year. Starter box +rulebook+ tokens for $50. That put another nail in the coffin. Now we are in the midst of another Price increase and what players we have left have gotten out and lo and behold bought into PPs summer sale this year.

The price increases don't hurt the Veterans that have thousands of points worth of models. The price increases hurt the new players getting into the game and the communities supporting the game. It's hard to keep poeple playing a game that they are getting into when the prices keep going up.

Yes people can go to Ebay, Amazon, etc... to get cheaper models, but the problem is convincing a new player who has just seen the game at their FLGS or liked the video games that the best way to get into the game is to buy everything online and come to the store to play. Just think of the hassle for a new player.

Also think of the how far a dollar, pound, euro, etc... goes in 40k. We'll use the most common game size of 1850 points and it's closest analog in WM/H 25 points. $40 buys one troop choice in 40k. That Troop choice is at max 250 points. So that works out somewhere between 1/6th or 1/7th of a army. In WM/H $40 will buy you a unit of some sort Averaging 9-12 points. That's somewhere between 1/3 and almost 1/2 of a army.

So I have a choice. Keep My 6000+ Ork Army and shelf it, knowing that I may only get to play it once or twice a year. Or sell them and by more WM/H and play every weekend.

I'm a bit concerned.

I've been crunching some numbers: to do ourflank/horde spam tyranids from scratch will be about £200 - including converting 6 warriors into hive guard.
Deff Lootaz Orkz - 190 assuming I can get 2 AOBR 1/2s for £20 and I need to do a shed-load of converting of the koptaz into trukkz or buggies.

To *update* my necrons with 2 arks, 2 death arks, 3 spyders and some immortals to make into a court/crypteks is £190. That's assuming I have warriors, lord and a monolth (which I do)

Eldar, tau & chaos need re-doing so it's not worth looking at them. I have dark eldar.
I don't even know what a decent 1500-1850 point guard army looks like to make it.

I'm sure marines and GK could be done cheaply though.

Seems like £200 is the 'buy in' for optimal army construction - assuming that you don't need to overly mechanize it. That said I have about £200 of cryx and have a lot less minis from my money.

KGatch113 wrote:
I do have a ton of FOW I haven;t painted....But I know how bad the cheating is in that tournament scene, so I would only play casually.

What? Aside from being inaccurate that is also a bad reason for not continuing with a system. Tournaments are not the alpha and omega of wagaming.

I'm too far in to stop now, and I feel that many people probably have that mind set. The fluff power is just overwhelming

I think they will lose a lot of future prospects with their ever increasing price point though.

I feel most for the younger players that have to rely on their parents to help them get stuff. For those of us with our own incomes, at least the decision is in our own hands.

The price hike won't stop me buying at all but I won't go over my budget in a particular month so if something is too pricey, it will simply be purchased later, when I've saved up. I buy all my GW stuff from other websites so I'll still save a lot anyway. And Forgeworld I accept is a bit more costly so I budget for that accordingly.

I will just haft to think twice before buying that new LR when instead l could buy a full tank of gas.

GW has my allegiance and my money. I shall play 40k until they put me in the ground, plane and simple. Praise be to the Emperor times will get better never give up hope.

garrapignado wrote:I don't like "wargames", I just like Warhammer/Warhammer 40k.

Eh? That's like saying "I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is"

If you like playing with miniatures, I'll guarantee you'll like some that aren't GW.

And every time you upgrade to a new edition, you're basically playing an entirely different game.

It's only a tiny step from there to actually playing a different game. Have a look around, I guarantee you'll surprise yourself.

I just went to the GW site and put some stuff into the cart to see how much hit would be at full price. I picked GK because they are high points and low cost.

This is just to start out with a small army
Total: $217.50 before tax.
Codex GK
Captain Stern
Grey Knights x2
Terminators
Venerable Dread

Now an army that's lower in points I picked Dark Eldar. I'm not sure if it's the same amount in points to the GK.

Total: $301.50 before tax

Codex
Archon
Incubi
Warriors x2
Razorwing
Reavers
Scourges
Talos

I am confused by this.
GW plc have made it clear they are interested in recruiting new players with thier B&M stores, getting as much money off them as possible before they leave .
(Estimated at 18 months on average.)
They are not interested in veteran gamers who already have loads of minatures, as we do not give them big enough returns.

So now they are pricing out more and more potential new players, and the still loyal veteran players do not spend nearly enough to interest them.

How can they grow thier buisness?

I guess at least you can say it's good they don't have the figs made in China and sell them lower that a Walmart toy.

Evidently they're banking on having enough of the player type that will literally pay anything for their product, and then vehemently defend all things GW.... all-day, every day, all the way to the bank....

I assume, barring stupidity, that they have enough knowledge that this is definitely true, because a company in this climate upping their prices by 20% at a time is otherwise really gutsy, not to mention doing it repeatedly, and sometimes even higher on their particularly best-selling product lines.

While it seems pure ass-hatery to raise a Land raider to 75 dollars (US), evidently they have knowledge that there will still be people shrugging and still buying them at that price.

I personally blame our fellow hobbyists (not all of them, of course), before GW, because things wouldn't even be this expensive without years of people sucking it up and paying anyway, every time they gouge us.

Kaldor wrote:

garrapignado wrote:I don't like "wargames", I just like Warhammer/Warhammer 40k.

Eh? That's like saying "I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is"

If you like playing with miniatures, I'll guarantee you'll like some that aren't GW.

And every time you upgrade to a new edition, you're basically playing an entirely different game.

It's only a tiny step from there to actually playing a different game. Have a look around, I guarantee you'll surprise yourself.

The gay thing seems a bit off-topic and weird, but I'll comment on the rest of the statement:

Realistically, I find that statements like "I only like WH/WH40k" can mean either:

1. Like the setting. No argument to that. it's an interesting setting, albeit one I personally burn out on pretty quickly. Sometimes I would rather go mess around in a setting where good stuff can happen.

2. Friends all play WH/WH40k, and the person doesn't want to be out of the peer group or in a position where they need to be the 'evangelist' for a new game.Especially since if you're the one who say "Let's try Game Y and everyone spends $200 on it and it sucks, you're going to hear about it forever. Realistically, this is why companies need to have good, fun starter sets so one player can be an 'evangelist' easier by painting two small but fun forces and learning the game slowly.

The other thing is that wargames are not "1 game only.' Players can play multiple games. As many games have a lot lower model counts than WH/WH40k it's very reasonable these days to devote an extra 1-2 inch tray in a BF or Sabol case to carry a couple small forces for Necromunda, Blood Bowl, War Machine/Hordes, Heavy Gear Blitz, Infinity, etc.

There's a few people who've posted in this topic that they'll stay with GW. I'd just like to add a sobering thought. This may well be your last year where you will say; "I'm staying and still buying"(look at the many posts from people who have stopped buying, this may well be you next!). Next year's price hike(and there will be one!) will probably be even more severe as they try to combat the loss of profit from this year as more people drop out because of this year's one. Will you still stick with them then?
Maybe you'll become like many of us; buying second hand from ebay, or trying to get good discounts(they'll be harder to come by). After that you'll be at the stage where you'll come on Dakka and state "The latest price hike has stopped me from buying anymore, shame on GW!"
No malice or slight intended with my post. Just pointing out sooner or later you'll drop by the wayside like me, been with 40k since the begining and now been forced to leave. So there.

Kaldor wrote:

garrapignado wrote:I don't like "wargames", I just like Warhammer/Warhammer 40k.

Eh? That's like saying "I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is"

If you like playing with miniatures, I'll guarantee you'll like some that aren't GW.

And every time you upgrade to a new edition, you're basically playing an entirely different game.

It's only a tiny step from there to actually playing a different game. Have a look around, I guarantee you'll surprise yourself.

Actually, I'm going to side with Garra here, oddly enough.

You actually have some people who aren't interested in 'wargaming', but interested in the setting/fluff of a game. They don't want a mind-stimulating, tactically-rewarding game. They want to put their Space Marines and Orks and Eldar and Tau down on the table, crack open a beer, and roll some dice. (And that's totally fine. It's when they start saying that GW's rules are the best that I start to get a little 'twitchy')

Then you've got the people who want a complex, mentally stimulating game, which 40k/Fantasy aren't. They're the ones who'll eventually start looking at other rulesets and miniature companies.

Palindrome wrote:

KGatch113 wrote:
I do have a ton of FOW I haven;t painted....But I know how bad the cheating is in that tournament scene, so I would only play casually.

What? Aside from being inaccurate that is also a bad reason for not continuing with a system. Tournaments are not the alpha and omega of wagaming.

Same. Everything I've seen/heard of the FoW tourney scene says the exact opposite of what you claim.

I am waiting for the market to pick up again once 6th Ed perks things up for a brief amount of time and drop the last vestiges of my 40k armies onto E-Bay for a final send off.

Too many other and more deserving company's that I can devote my time and effort towards.

I've been playing GW games since 1995. Not enough reason to stop now.

Like a lot of other guys here, I have more than enough stuff to paint as it is so the price hike didn't really effect me as such....

I'm at a point in the hobby where there really isn't anything else out that makes me want to play an army that I don't already own for either WH Fantasy (Dwarves & Bretonnians) or 40k (Space Wolves). So, until they re-do an army book or codex for an army that I already own, I really couldn't care less about the price hikes.

If anything it will effect newer guys getting into the hobby, but here's the thing: The ones that it will effect more are the 14-18 year old kids that are living off of their parents and have to ask them for the $ to buy the stuff. Which means that as the prices continue to hike, you're generally going to see an older crowd of guys playing the games which is fine with me... Like I said, I already own the armies I want so with the exception of a new unit, or unless I want to update with a newer model, there really isn't a need for me to buy anymore models. I have enough to paint as it is...

I'm curious as to how many are single with a job. Them I can understand sticking to 40k no matter what. But I've got a wife and three kids. Buying figures, without already selling some first, is a once a year on my birthday thing.