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Sebbyp538 wrote:

 Evertras wrote:

Sebbyp538 wrote:
I know what your gonna say. "Why do you bother playing with him, play somewhere else" well that my friend would be even more of a pusay move to do, more than build a cheese list that is so one sided it won't matter what stupid rules he tries to pull out his sleeve.

I would actually call that the mature thing to do, not the 'pusay' thing to do. o.O

More mature than playing war games with toy men? i get sick and tired of people of giving me opinions on this thread that its wrong to go out and buy a cheese list. For gods sake either give me a cheesy list or pi$$ off and tell someone else what they dont want to hear!!!!!

yes....much more mature.

no one's saying its wrong to have a cheesy list, what we're saying is that its a stupid idea to throw money at a new army because you seem to think that rather than investing time into becoming more skilled in the game you instead seem to think that you can buy a list that will play itself, all for the soul reason of beating someone more skilled than you are.

Yeahh theres nothing wrong with the new chaos codex at all :/ Seems very balanced to me, is that a problem for you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sebbyp538 wrote:

 Evertras wrote:

Sebbyp538 wrote:
I know what your gonna say. "Why do you bother playing with him, play somewhere else" well that my friend would be even more of a pusay move to do, more than build a cheese list that is so one sided it won't matter what stupid rules he tries to pull out his sleeve.

I would actually call that the mature thing to do, not the 'pusay' thing to do. o.O

More mature than playing war games with toy men? i get sick and tired of people of giving me opinions on this thread that its wrong to go out and buy a cheese list. For gods sake either give me a cheesy list or pi$$ off and tell someone else what they dont want to hear!!!!!

oh wow, i just realised there was more than one page to this thread.

You really are playing the wrong game, and your attitude is beyond horrific. Instead of not playing the guy, you'll spend hundreds of dollars, and absolutely zero effort in making your own list, just to TRY to beat someone with something that you call 'overpowered'

Have you ever played online games with the dudes that run around using a rocket launcher at their feet to kill enemies, just because its overpowered? Yeah, that kind of player is looked down upon, just like you are.

If you think its immature to pay with 'toy men' then the hell are you doing in this hobby?

To be honest guys all your comments have been a good insight into the person i am and how i need to change. True, i dont know the rules inside and out, (now its changed to 6th) and dont have the tactical knowledge needed to take on this guy. Hes in his forties and has been playing since hes 12. i kind of underestimated the fact that winning a game is not purely what you bring to the table,there is a huge element of skill and luck needed to to win. i don't drink or do drugs (any more) and have a good job so the thought of throwing money at two new armies does'nt sound as horrific to me as it may do to some on here.

However though. since buying the new codexs of grey knights and necrons i have atleast advanced my understandings of different armies more so than i understood them a few days ago. i feel i know my chaos codex inside and out, but what good is that if i dont fully understand the enemy i could face . like ive said in a few earlier posts. ive only played 20 or so times only 3 of which have been at a gaming club, the rest have been on the kitchen table. so theres no way i can have the tactical knowledge to take him on. but it do feel good to have £270 of necrons and greyknights delivered to my door this afteernoon. the dreadknight is a cool looking bit of kit.

Sebbyp538 wrote:
To be honest guys all your comments have been a good insight into the person i am and how i need to change. True, i dont know the rules inside and out, (now its changed to 6th) and dont have the tactical knowledge needed to take on this guy. Hes in his forties and has been playing since hes 12. i kind of underestimated the fact that winning a game is not purely what you bring to the table,there is a huge element of skill and luck needed to to win. i don't drink or do drugs (any more) and have a good job so the thought of throwing money at two new armies does'nt sound as horrific to me as it may do to some on here.

However though. since buying the new codexs of grey knights and necrons i have atleast advanced my understandings of different armies more so than i understood them a few days ago. i feel i know my chaos codex inside and out, but what good is that if i dont fully understand the enemy i could face . like ive said in a few earlier posts. ive only played 20 or so times only 3 of which have been at a gaming club, the rest have been on the kitchen table. so theres no way i can have the tactical knowledge to take him on. but it do feel good to have £270 of necrons and greyknights delivered to my door this afteernoon. the dreadknight is a cool looking bit of kit.

.....why didnt you just buy the 4 codexs that he had and read through them?

Sebbyp538 wrote:
To be honest guys all your comments have been a good insight into the person i am and how i need to change. True, i dont know the rules inside and out, (now its changed to 6th) and dont have the tactical knowledge needed to take on this guy. Hes in his forties and has been playing since hes 12. i kind of underestimated the fact that winning a game is not purely what you bring to the table,there is a huge element of skill and luck needed to to win. i don't drink or do drugs (any more) and have a good job so the thought of throwing money at two new armies does'nt sound as horrific to me as it may do to some on here.

However though. since buying the new codexs of grey knights and necrons i have atleast advanced my understandings of different armies more so than i understood them a few days ago. i feel i know my chaos codex inside and out, but what good is that if i dont fully understand the enemy i could face . like ive said in a few earlier posts. ive only played 20 or so times only 3 of which have been at a gaming club, the rest have been on the kitchen table. so theres no way i can have the tactical knowledge to take him on. but it do feel good to have £270 of necrons and greyknights delivered to my door this afteernoon. the dreadknight is a cool looking bit of kit.

Why not do what i did, and just watch a heap of battlereports to see alot of the other armies and help with the rules?

But, you've played at a gaming club 3 times, against this dude, and those small amount of times is enough to make you spend 270 pounds on new models? :/

Its not that it sounds horrific for someone to buy new armies, its the reason why that i find horrific.

Well, good luck. I recommend after looking through the books, start writing army lists and post it in the army list section for some critique. And if you want, you can always PM me with your list and I will give you my personal opinions.

BTW, I liked the Nurgle-CSM list you are currently using and think that it can work, but if you want to try out a new and different army, that's fine as well. No problem with that if you're willing and happy to spend money on the army. I myself happen to have about 8 armies and have "invested" thousands and thousands of dollars into the hobby....in only about 3 years!

But you know what's really cool? Your opponent is actually motivating you to become a better player whether you know it or not....just by you wanting to be able to beat him, learning the rules, browsing the forums and starting to try other armies.

 DPBellathrom wrote:

Sebbyp538 wrote:
To be honest guys all your comments have been a good insight into the person i am and how i need to change. True, i dont know the rules inside and out, (now its changed to 6th) and dont have the tactical knowledge needed to take on this guy. Hes in his forties and has been playing since hes 12. i kind of underestimated the fact that winning a game is not purely what you bring to the table,there is a huge element of skill and luck needed to to win. i don't drink or do drugs (any more) and have a good job so the thought of throwing money at two new armies does'nt sound as horrific to me as it may do to some on here.

However though. since buying the new codexs of grey knights and necrons i have atleast advanced my understandings of different armies more so than i understood them a few days ago. i feel i know my chaos codex inside and out, but what good is that if i dont fully understand the enemy i could face . like ive said in a few earlier posts. ive only played 20 or so times only 3 of which have been at a gaming club, the rest have been on the kitchen table. so theres no way i can have the tactical knowledge to take him on. but it do feel good to have £270 of necrons and greyknights delivered to my door this afteernoon. the dreadknight is a cool looking bit of kit.

.....why didnt you just buy the 4 codexs that he had and read through them?

Because i want to build armies, not a library !


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:
Well, good luck. I recommend after looking through the books, start writing army lists and post it in the army list section for some critique. And if you want, you can always PM me with your list and I will give you my personal opinions.

BTW, I liked the Nurgle-CSM list you are currently using and think that it can work, but if you want to try out a new and different army, that's fine as well. No problem with that if you're willing and happy to spend money on the army. I myself happen to have about 8 armies and have "invested" thousands and thousands of dollars into the hobby....in only about 3 years!

But you know what's really cool? Your opponent is actually motivating you to become a better player whether you know it or not....just by you wanting to be able to beat him, learning the rules, browsing the forums and starting to try other armies.

Thanks jy2, your about the only persons on here that has put on here constructive comments, i had a look through alot of your battle reports you advised me to look at in the earlier posts. very interesting.

Do you think immotek the storm lord is worth having at all in a 2000 list? i like his lightning bolt thing he does in each shooting phase. How has he worked for you so far? yeah my chaos list is pretty solid so far, i actually mis calculated the list, i can actually squeeze in another 10 cultists and a comms relay to compliment my heldrakes.

Immotekh is kind of hit-or-miss IMO. I haven't had much luck with him the times that I've used him, though I have played against him before where he did well against me. He works best against shooty, mechanized armies and is not really that effective against foot-based assault armies. It really depends on the matchup. Currently I am using Destroyer Lords to run with my wraiths. To me, they perform much more consistently. I recommend that maybe you proxy using him (Immotekh) for a couple of games, unless you want to get the model because you like it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Cheesy and OP armies bring the life into this game.

Fixed that for you. One sided massacres and harvesting your opponent's tears when they ragequit are how games are meant to be played.

OT: This attitude sucks peregrine.
As for OP. I would go with Necron flying circus. Just cause flyers are broke now and necron condex seems underpriced for just about every unit.

It's a tossup between necrons and grey knights....grey knights more for aesthetics, and necrons more for the novelty of paying xenos

I wouldn't start a 'cheesy' army because most of them are lame, absurdly unfluffy, or get completely neutered every time a new edition shows up. I'm working on a mixed air-cav Guard/Grey Knight army that's been around in some form or another since 3e and Forge World Valkyries, at the moment.

 jy2 wrote:
Immotekh is kind of hit-or-miss IMO. I haven't had much luck with him the times that I've used him, though I have played against him before where he did well against me. He works best against shooty, mechanized armies and is not really that effective against foot-based assault armies. It really depends on the matchup. Currently I am using Destroyer Lords to run with my wraiths. To me, they perform much more consistently. I recommend that maybe you proxy using him (Immotekh) for a couple of games, unless you want to get the model because you like it.

i already had immotekh before i made this order below.

Necron Overlord
Necron Battleforce
Grey Knight Nemesis Dreadknight
Grey Knights x2 boxes
Codex: Grey Knights
Castellan Crowe
Lord Kaldor Draigo
Necron Catacomb Command Barge / Annihilation Barge
Codex: Necrons


i then made a second order of this lot.

Grey Knight Nemesis Dreadknight x2 boxes
Grey Knights x2 boxes
Necron Canoptek Wraiths x2 boxes
Necron Catacomb Command Barge / Annihilation Barge
Necron Destroyer
Necron Destroyer Lord Upgrade Pack
Necron Night Scythe/Doom Scythe x2boxes

out of all this im looking to build a back bone to a 2000 point list of something like this below for the Necrons .( Not including special weapons extras as i havent made my mind up yet on that),( im liking the infinate range strength 10 ap 1 arrow the destroyer lords can have, do you think they are worth 30 points?)


Necrons[u]

Destroyer lord

overlord with command barge.

6 Warriors
with Nightsythe

6 Warriors
with Nightsythe

8 warriors foot slogging or maybe in ghost arc

5 immortals

6 wraiths

Annihilation barge


Not sure if immotekh or the scarabs( i get in the battleforce) can really be of great use until i field them in a trial run. i just feel immotekh is just a mirror image of Abbadon where hes the don and every bugger targets him from the off. He is quite costly on points. Are the scarabs useful in low numbers? would you field them in a 2000pt game?


For the grey knights im looking for a back bone of some thing like this out of what ive bought.

Draigo

Crowe

5x strike squad

5x strike squad

5x strike squad

5x strike squad

Dreadknight

Dreadknight

Dreadknight


Any one see any weakness at the moment? any suggestions what else i need to bring in on either lists?

That GK list is pretty pants actually...

Draigo & Crowe especially have no units that support them or where they'd be a solid fit.
Draigo should be leading a real hitty unit like a large Termie unit, or some Pallies or even Purifyers or a Deathcultist unit should you have a Land Raider/Storm Raven for them to truck about in. He can stand at the front of his unit and soak up all the really scary enemy fire with his 3++/Eternal Warrior protection.
Crowe is a tax to gain much more aggresive and better closecombat Troops. He also is not an IC, and you'll want a spare Transport for him to truck about in as he's a very easy target for giving up First Blood.
Not to mention, you're not even using either bonus those HQ's provide you - namely their unique Troop unlocks.

5 man MEQ squads are fairly easy to kill, espeically when there's no real distractions.

3 Dreadknights is mean, but they're the only actual threats in that list, meaning most players should be able to focus on them while being able to pretty much ignore your mini squads and two HQ's who'll be footslogging about.


The one and only army you'll really own with that list is some poor Daemon player since you've got plenty of Warp Quake squads & Dark Ex to completely screw them over!

Experiment 626 wrote:
That GK list is pretty pants actually...

Draigo & Crowe especially have no units that support them or where they'd be a solid fit.
Draigo should be leading a real hitty unit like a large Termie unit, or some Pallies or even Purifyers or a Deathcultist unit should you have a Land Raider/Storm Raven for them to truck about in. He can stand at the front of his unit and soak up all the really scary enemy fire with his 3++/Eternal Warrior protection.
Crowe is a tax to gain much more aggresive and better closecombat Troops. He also is not an IC, and you'll want a spare Transport for him to truck about in as he's a very easy target for giving up First Blood.
Not to mention, you're not even using either bonus those HQ's provide you - namely their unique Troop unlocks.

5 man MEQ squads are fairly easy to kill, espeically when there's no real distractions.

3 Dreadknights is mean, but they're the only actual threats in that list, meaning most players should be able to focus on them while being able to pretty much ignore your mini squads and two HQ's who'll be footslogging about.


The one and only army you'll really own with that list is some poor Daemon player since you've got plenty of Warp Quake squads & Dark Ex to completely screw them over!

It blatantly says above the list its a back bone and im looking for suggestions to add around the list and what do people think i need to replace. how exactly have you helped by saying i had better only play a poor daemon player ? you could at least suggest what you think would be better to replace draigo and crowe.

Sebbyp538 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
That GK list is pretty pants actually...

Draigo & Crowe especially have no units that support them or where they'd be a solid fit.
Draigo should be leading a real hitty unit like a large Termie unit, or some Pallies or even Purifyers or a Deathcultist unit should you have a Land Raider/Storm Raven for them to truck about in. He can stand at the front of his unit and soak up all the really scary enemy fire with his 3++/Eternal Warrior protection.
Crowe is a tax to gain much more aggresive and better closecombat Troops. He also is not an IC, and you'll want a spare Transport for him to truck about in as he's a very easy target for giving up First Blood.
Not to mention, you're not even using either bonus those HQ's provide you - namely their unique Troop unlocks.

5 man MEQ squads are fairly easy to kill, espeically when there's no real distractions.

3 Dreadknights is mean, but they're the only actual threats in that list, meaning most players should be able to focus on them while being able to pretty much ignore your mini squads and two HQ's who'll be footslogging about.


The one and only army you'll really own with that list is some poor Daemon player since you've got plenty of Warp Quake squads & Dark Ex to completely screw them over!

It blatantly says above the list its a back bone and im looking for suggestions to add around the list and what do people think i need to replace. how exactly have you helped by saying i had better only play a poor daemon player ? you could at least suggest what you think would be better to replace draigo and crowe.

Even as a backbone it's pretty lackluster;
a) HQ's with no real purpose.
As I said above, you want Draigo to go into a hammer unit like Termies/Pallies or Land Raider/Storm Raven born assaulters like Purifyers or Deathcults.
Crowe needs a transport to hide in, since he's not an IC and can't join squads. If you deploy him on his own, he'll almost certainly give any opponent an easy First Blood point.

b) Not utilising your HQ's main abilities.
If you're not going to take some Troops Pallies or Purifyers, drop both named HQ's since you can get much better with the basics!!! (ie: a Grandmaster for his special D3 unit abilities + Libby or Inq for BRB psychic fun)

c) Your Troops squads are too small!
Merge them! Take 2x psycannon + psybolt + MC Halberd for the Justicar. You still have the Combat Squads rule if you want to split them up.

d) You have poor synergy in your backbone force.
You have 1 big threat - those Dreadknights. You have no transports to get your footsloggers around and about. You have no anvil units to hold up enemy offensives. You have what for anti-tank? You're taking what for upgrades?


A better idea for presenting a backbone force would be something like;
HQ: Draigo? or Grandmaster + other? (Libby/Crowe/Inq)

Elites: ???

Troops:
10 Strikes w/2x psycannons + MC Halberd on Justicar. Add psybolts? other options? dedicated transort?

10 Strikes w/2x psycannons + MC halberd on Justicar. Add psybolts? other options? dedicated transport?

Termies or Pallies?

Fast: ???

Heavy:
3x Dreadknights. Options?

That gives a basic list and askes questions/advice. It's also clearly providing a basic list to build around and gives others a better idea of what's already likely in the current pts total so they can better calculate add-ons.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Sebbyp538 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
That GK list is pretty pants actually...

Draigo & Crowe especially have no units that support them or where they'd be a solid fit.
Draigo should be leading a real hitty unit like a large Termie unit, or some Pallies or even Purifyers or a Deathcultist unit should you have a Land Raider/Storm Raven for them to truck about in. He can stand at the front of his unit and soak up all the really scary enemy fire with his 3++/Eternal Warrior protection.
Crowe is a tax to gain much more aggresive and better closecombat Troops. He also is not an IC, and you'll want a spare Transport for him to truck about in as he's a very easy target for giving up First Blood.
Not to mention, you're not even using either bonus those HQ's provide you - namely their unique Troop unlocks.

5 man MEQ squads are fairly easy to kill, espeically when there's no real distractions.

3 Dreadknights is mean, but they're the only actual threats in that list, meaning most players should be able to focus on them while being able to pretty much ignore your mini squads and two HQ's who'll be footslogging about.


The one and only army you'll really own with that list is some poor Daemon player since you've got plenty of Warp Quake squads & Dark Ex to completely screw them over!

It blatantly says above the list its a back bone and im looking for suggestions to add around the list and what do people think i need to replace. how exactly have you helped by saying i had better only play a poor daemon player ? you could at least suggest what you think would be better to replace draigo and crowe.

Even as a backbone it's pretty lackluster;
a) HQ's with no real purpose.
As I said above, you want Draigo to go into a hammer unit like Termies/Pallies or Land Raider/Storm Raven born assaulters like Purifyers or Deathcults.
Crowe needs a transport to hide in, since he's not an IC and can't join squads. If you deploy him on his own, he'll almost certainly give any opponent an easy First Blood point.

b) Not utilising your HQ's main abilities.
If you're not going to take some Troops Pallies or Purifyers, drop both named HQ's since you can get much better with the basics!!! (ie: a Grandmaster for his special D3 unit abilities + Libby or Inq for BRB psychic fun)

c) Your Troops squads are too small!
Merge them! Take 2x psycannon + psybolt + MC Halberd for the Justicar. You still have the Combat Squads rule if you want to split them up.

d) You have poor synergy in your backbone force.
You have 1 big threat - those Dreadknights. You have no transports to get your footsloggers around and about. You have no anvil units to hold up enemy offensives. You have what for anti-tank? You're taking what for upgrades?


A better idea for presenting a backbone force would be something like;
HQ: Draigo? or Grandmaster + other? (Libby/Crowe/Inq)

Elites: ???

Troops:
10 Strikes w/2x psycannons + MC Halberd on Justicar. Add psybolts? other options? dedicated transort?

10 Strikes w/2x psycannons + MC halberd on Justicar. Add psybolts? other options? dedicated transport?

Termies or Pallies?

Fast: ???

Heavy:
3x Dreadknights. Options?

That gives a basic list and askes questions/advice. It's also clearly providing a basic list to build around and gives others a better idea of what's already likely in the current pts total so they can better calculate add-ons.

ah ok brilliant thanks. ok so the grandmaster i can see him in the codex but i cant see him on the gw site? is he like a chaos lord where you kinda make him yourself? yeah the strike squads can be put into 10 man squads and be split into separate squads if need be right? thats why i split them into squads of 5 as if need be can be put into squads of 10. plus if there is 3+ objectives on the board im gunna need more than two scoring units. yeah i agree with transports. razorbacks for each squad then you think? im not a keen fan of razorbacks. they give up kill points a bit too easy for my liking. theres so many options to do with the 5 man greyknights i just cant mnake my mind up on what to do with them strikes with psycannons seem the most popular options. so the grandmaster will compliment them too. ok thanks for your time. i should be digging through the codexes a bit more but im a tad busy assembling the necrons ive had delivered.

Yes, you can make your Grand Master in any way you like, usually from plastic terminator bits. In this day of AP3 power weapons I'd be inclined to give him a daemon hammer.

If you take a Grand Master he only comes in terminator armour so you'll need a squad of terminators or paladin to put him in. Possibly a Storm Raven for transport.

Personally I like Coteaz for his low cost and ability to roll in a Rhino. You don't even have to exploit his ability to take henchmen troops in order to gain a benefit from using him, unlike Crowe or Draigo. If I were using Coteaz I'd give him a bodyguard of 8 Purifiers with Rhino, force halberds and 2 psycannon (and a couple of hammers).

10 man Strike Squads with 2 psycannon and psybolts in Rhinos make good troop choices. Since the Justicar will probably be challenged out of the squad I'm not sure there's any point in spending extra points making him better in combat. Two squads of these for compulsory troops, then maybe a couple of squads of henchmen, Acolytes with plasma/melta and storm bolters are nice. Death Cultists with power sword/power axe kill everything but they are a glass cannon and need something with an assault ramp to deliver them into combat.

Even with the changes to armour, psyfleman dreadnoughts (twin auto-cannon with psybolts) make for cheap ranged heavy support, each having effectively 4 twin-linked krak missile shots a turn.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Yes, you can make your Grand Master in any way you like, usually from plastic terminator bits. In this day of AP3 power weapons I'd be inclined to give him a daemon hammer.

If you take a Grand Master he only comes in terminator armour so you'll need a squad of terminators or paladin to put him in. Possibly a Storm Raven for transport.

A Grandmaster can join any unit, not just other 2+ saves.
However, if you do put him in a non-termie unit, note that you lose the ability to Deep Strike, (since only the GM has the rule), and you're still limited to Land Raiders or Storm Ravens as transport options.
On the plus side, a GM can eat ap3 firepower that would for example outright kill a power armoured model.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Personally I like Coteaz for his low cost and ability to roll in a Rhino. You don't even have to exploit his ability to take henchmen troops in order to gain a benefit from using him, unlike Crowe or Draigo. If I were using Coteaz I'd give him a bodyguard of 8 Purifiers with Rhino, force halberds and 2 psycannon (and a couple of hammers).

You can also give Coteaz Servitors & Acolytes with plasmas/storm bolters as well since he's not much in combat compared to your fightier options. (Purifyers will put him in danger since you want those guys moving forwards aggressively, taking ground and finishing things off in assaults)
Keep him more in your backfield and use his special ability to help protect your force from enemy Deep Strikers.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
10 man Strike Squads with 2 psycannon and psybolts in Rhinos make good troop choices. Since the Justicar will probably be challenged out of the squad I'm not sure there's any point in spending extra points making him better in combat. Two squads of these for compulsory troops, then maybe a couple of squads of henchmen, Acolytes with plasma/melta and storm bolters are nice. Death Cultists with power sword/power axe kill everything but they are a glass cannon and need something with an assault ramp to deliver them into combat.

Even with the changes to armour, psyfleman dreadnoughts (twin auto-cannon with psybolts) make for cheap ranged heavy support, each having effectively 4 twin-linked krak missile shots a turn.

*ALWAYS* give your Jusitcar a master-crafted halberd. Yes he's really no better than any other run-o-the-mill Sergeant in combat, but halberds are simply silly-good since they're a better MoS and let you hit at I6. (absolutely unheard of for MEQ's, and they cost piss-all for what you get!)
Getting your swings in first is always the way to go, and there's very little else in the game that boasts I6 or better beyond 'Stealers, Eldar elites or HQ's & Slaaneshii characters.

Now, if you want to see what Deathcults can really do, give them Power Mauls and add in a Techmarine w/Rad grenades. Anything T4 is now getting insta-pooched. Throw in a few Crusaders w/Power Axes for some ap2 - the I1 drawback doesn't hurt them since they also come with a 3++ due to their storm shields.
Now you're far, far less of a 'glass cannon', and you have more than enough attacks to kill 3+ saves simply through wieght of dice.

got the necron army and grey knights armies assembled and ran a few practice games but the scottish guy got posted up north! oh well im loving alll the new rules ive learnt about the crons and knights.