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We wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
Design your own tanks which fit the 40k aesthetic and you will do better.

This. Construct your own unique design that fits the scale and blends in with the look of 40k. Change the name make sure there are no use of trademarked names, insignias, etc. Create a mold and make resin copies. Create a kickstarter. No copyright problems, and you might actually make some money if the quality is good.

Agree:

Here is an example:
http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=51332

A person wanted to make a model which was a 'battlewagon' but was flying. The model can be used as a battlewagon (when set on the ground), a FW kommando Kopter or a Plain ork Flyer. He did a scratch build And then contacted a company to 'cast' the parts.

Now it is a real model. It is unique, people want it and has no dependency on GW parts, IP, models, nothing.
http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=51332&view=findpost&p=685038
http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=51332&view=findpost&p=690514

This is where the market is...

Here's an idea...bear with me. List that you are available to scratch build sci fi tanks and walkers for people, then show examples for your works. This way you aren't specifically making 'GW' tanks, and ask people to PM you with requests and hammer out prices through PM. That way you can continue working, but your work is strictly kept between you and your customers, without appearing like you are only making GW ones. Taking suggested prices for models down may not be a bad idea though. That might work out better without people giving you a hard time-examples are just that-examples of your work.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:

cadbren wrote:
There's no reason the OP cannot make a baneblade like tank that can be customized by customers with GW parts to make something that fits in-universe.
Anything not specific to GW is barred from official events anyway so this wont effect people building up tournament armies.
The OP is providing those who play informally and who model a chance to have something that more approximates the GW version, or even adds variety to an existing collection.
Let all the "IP lawyers" in this thread take a running jump. I doubt any of you have actual legal experience and are simply parroting the naysayers that infest the net.
To the OP, you might also want to look at the scenery market such as wrecked vehicles, generators, large containers etc as well as turret type gun emplacements.

Thank you sir. The "IP lawyers" are making me out to be a bad guy. Im not in it just for profit, I like doing it, and i enjoy providing people with similar items to ones they cant afford.

You're welcome. I will point out however that you titled the thread asking for opinions on high quality stratch-builds and the example you posted appears to be a production run rather than stratch-built, even if the original is stratch-built.

I will reiterate that providing sci-fi vehicles and accessories that are similar enough to GW models to be used as effective proxies is not breaking copyright. If 40k players and collectors wish to purchase non-GW proxies for their armies for use and appreciation outside of official GW events then that is their right as free people.

Hell, they look ace! I would buy them.. if only you weren't over in America

I'll point out too that, despite the negative comments on this thread, nearly 3/4 of voters so far believe there is a market for this sort of thing.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Thank you sir. The "IP lawyers" are making me out to be a bad guy. Im not in it just for profit, I like doing it, and i enjoy providing people with similar items to ones they cant afford. I truthfully see no problem in that. 99% of this site hate GWs pricing anyways, I imagined there would be more people on my side. And I wasnt looking for insults, constructive criticisim works fine. Many people here have little knowledge of IP laws. Ill be the first to say Im lacking.

Ah yes, the traditional "ignore everyone who gave the answer I didn't want and focus on the one person who agreed with me" approach. You have the right to do so, but don't complain when you get unwanted attention from GW's lawyers.

BTW, what did your lawyer say about your plan?

Dude, no need to be hostile. Just cause I dont share your opinion dosent mean you can insult me over it. And this was a poll about whether or not theres a market, not whether or not its legal. I hate getting off topic. I dont need to be portrayed as some idiot breaking the law either.

I think there is a market for high quality, though I don't think your baneblade images are that high quality. It has panels that don't meet up well, skewed barrels, some which are out of round and lacks the detail of a high end kit like GW or FW put out.

Is there a market for more mid to low end stuff? Yeah, possibly, I think you'll find that if your objective is making money, there are better ways to make money. I'd suggest if you're using decent materials and taking some time, you'll find yourself making a very low hourly rate for your work.

Me personally, if I'm buying a tank like that, I know it's going to take me a long time to paint so I'll be happier spending a bit more money to get a higher quality kit and avoiding something that is in a legally ambiguous area (since I might want to play at a GW store or event).

As for the legality, I'd definitely attempt to distance your models as much from GW models whilst keeping the same sizes and gun locations. If you use the same exact shape, same hatch locations and are basically a lower quality version of the GW models and are selling them for money, don't be surprised if you get cease and desist letters.

cadbren wrote:
I'll point out too that, despite the negative comments on this thread, nearly 3/4 of voters so far believe there is a market for this sort of thing.

Sure, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. There's clearly a market for illegal recasts of GW products, but that doesn't make it any less illegal, or make selling recasts any less stupid if you live somewhere with decent IP laws and enforcement (IOW, not China). And while 75% may say there is a market, most of them say that it's a small market, which isn't very promising.

cadbren wrote:
I will reiterate that providing sci-fi vehicles and accessories that are similar enough to GW models to be used as effective proxies is not breaking copyright. If 40k players and collectors wish to purchase non-GW proxies for their armies for use and appreciation outside of official GW events then that is their right as free people.

There's a difference between something that is similar enough and something that is a copy.

http://puppetswar.com/product.php?id_product=179 is similar enough to a Vindicator to use it as one, and that was probably the whole point of it. However, it's very clearly NOT a Vindicator. It's based on the same general concept as one, but it is its own distinct interpretation of that concept and GW can not legitimately do anything about it.

The OP is producing exact copies of GW designs, or at least as close as their skills allow. That goes way beyond "similar" and into copying the GW design and violating IP law.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I dont need to be portrayed as some idiot breaking the law either.

Then don't break the law.

I'd be willing to buy scratchbuilds if they were styrene, and not cardboard. I think no matter how good they look as cardboard, I'd be disinclined to purchase them, as they always look so flat.

Also, I'd prefer them riveted. Time consuming, but not expensive - all you need is a $5 water softener cartridge, some thin superglue, and the pin vise you already have.

The discussion about the legalities has derailed the thread a bit. The important concepts and potential pitfalls have been communicated. Any further IP arguing will be deleted as being off-topic, and persistent offenders may be suspended.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Hey Dakka,

I wanted to know if there would be a decent market (on Dakka of course)for high quality scratch-built tanks and titans. Over the years I've improved my construction techniques and can now produce scale tanks and titans with a moderately high amount of detail and strong durability. Im considering producing large amounts for sale at very reasonable prices.

So what do you think?

Wow, your work is amazing, definitely worth considering. I'll keep you in mind, once I start working again.

Star a facebook page or a website.

I follow the Titan manufactorum, and I'd follow you too.

Great work!

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

just wondering if you could make a waiting list need be in the trading section?

I'll figure something out. I'm surprised on how many pms ive had already.

You know, now that I think about it. If you can scratchbuild that well, you may want to focus on improving GW's designs, ie make a Heldrake that isn't a Power Rangers Zoid on crack, a Defiler that isn't a walking He-Man toy.

You could also make Titans, or sell add-on Rhino and Land Raider doors.

As one other poster said, make a Thunderhawk. Or an Ork plane. Or an Ork mega-bomber. Make an example model and put a price on it.

Also, can you sculpt with green stuff? You may have a future opening up your own mini-shop, like so many others have done.

Still, I'd be interested in seeing your work.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Those Baneblades are epic. I especially like the lack of aquillas(the GW ones are plastered in them) and quite frankly their so cheap i think i would buy them if i had money. For future reference do you ship to the UK? If so i may have to buy some stuff from you once i get a job.

I would buy tanks from you. Do you plan on stepping into ork territory?

Ork territory sounds awesome. I've done them before. I'm really gonna have to sort something out. I may start a seperate swap shop thread over the weekend. Sadlly I only have two night to work on scratch builds cause I'm going up north for the weekend. But. By the end of next week I plan to have a thread made with pics of varuous models and pricing, And possible wip shots. And a waiting list aswell depending on how many bites I get.

I can't wait to get on the wait list.

I just thought of this, have you ever thought of making the large superheavy vehicles that don't currently have models? Like a Nurgle Plague Tower? Cuz I'd love to have the basic shape of a Nurgle Plague Tower, and then add the resin add-on bits from that one company.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Probably the best thing you could do is to build one and take photos or even video through the whole process and make a painting log on forums like DakkaDakka. People will notice your skills and get invested in the process.

I agree with the other posters. You seem to have quite a bit of talent and patience and I think you could make the most of it by making items that aren't commercially available: Plague Towers, terrain, Ork vehicles, etc. Defensive items are popular now ... could have quite a bit of fun there.

Dunno about scratch-built Imperial stuff, but I imagine that a well-designed and fun Ork vehicle scratch-buidl could fetch a good price.

 Melissia wrote:
Dunno about scratch-built Imperial stuff, but I imagine that a well-designed and fun Ork vehicle scratch-buidl could fetch a good price.

I'd kill for that one giant Ork airplane that's making the rounds.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Well, I seriously doubt you can do this on a large scale. As others have said, you're using GW IP so they won't be happy with your activity. Maybe if you do not open any officially recognised enterprise and you use exclusively wargame forums like dakka or warseer to promote your work, you will go away with it.
As a side note, I love your baneblades and with just a little refinement I would consider to buy one of these but... I definitely hate the tracks (at least if I have to judge on the basis of the pic you posted), so you could consider to find a different way to make them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, ork stuff would be easier to commercialize and to avoid IP-related problems.

 punkow wrote:
Well, I seriously doubt you can do this on a large scale. As others have said, you're using GW IP so they won't be happy with your activity. Maybe if you do not open any officially recognised enterprise and you use exclusively wargame forums like dakka or warseer to promote your work, you will go away with it.
As a side note, I love your baneblades and with just a little refinement I would consider to buy one of these but... I definitely hate the tracks (at least if I have to judge on the basis of the pic you posted), so you could consider to find a different way to make them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, ork stuff would be easier to commercialize and to avoid IP-related problems.

Yeah, I thought we weren;'t going to discuss IP-stuff?

The Titan Manufactorum seems to be making a go of it though.

The guy from Crusader 29 made a ton of great not-Imperial buildings and not-Ork vehicles before he started ripping people off and disappeared, It was a great idea, and he probably made good cash, I don't know why he had to rip people off like that.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I'll certainly avoid ripping people off. Haha

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:

cadbren wrote:
There's no reason the OP cannot make a baneblade like tank that can be customized by customers with GW parts to make something that fits in-universe.
Anything not specific to GW is barred from official events anyway so this wont effect people building up tournament armies.
The OP is providing those who play informally and who model a chance to have something that more approximates the GW version, or even adds variety to an existing collection.
Let all the "IP lawyers" in this thread take a running jump. I doubt any of you have actual legal experience and are simply parroting the naysayers that infest the net.
To the OP, you might also want to look at the scenery market such as wrecked vehicles, generators, large containers etc as well as turret type gun emplacements.

Thank you sir. The "IP lawyers" are making me out to be a bad guy. Im not in it just for profit, I like doing it, and i enjoy providing people with similar items to ones they cant afford. I truthfully see no problem in that. 99% of this site hate GWs pricing anyways, I imagined there would be more people on my side. And I wasnt looking for insults, constructive criticisim works fine. Many people here have little knowledge of IP laws. Ill be the first to say Im lacking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what about Warlord titans? There is no model in the 28mm range, Is it CR infringment to create one?

Who says it has to be in 28mm, Its just a large action figure?
maybe?

My two cents. There is a market, and quite a large one at that. GW are brilliant for including apocalypse and other areas with units that don't have models or require extensive conversions to make.

IMHO I'd go for that market, it's easier, there's no templates or patterns. And the work would be more personalised.

Also consider me subbed, and consider yourself exalted.

Sweet! High Quality scratch builds? Can you link where we get the from? No one seems to have linked or put photos on this thread yet.

Just got back from the UP, starting a warhound tonight.