Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
@ Tracer Bullet

Using that logic you can't shoot the hurricane bloter at all, seeming there is no profile for "bolter", only "boltgun"

I understand that, as I mentioned it was more of a joke on my part about the lack on consistency that GW puts into their writing. I can see where people are coming from as far as RAW goes for the banner affecting the hurricane bolter due to the wording used in the description, however, for RAI I can't imagine they intended it to work that way and it's not HIWPI. That being said, until they come out with a FAQ ruling one way or the other it will just be up to you and your opponent as to whether it will apply or not.

 Tracer Bullet wrote:
My point was that they only get to use their special ammo with Boltguns, nothing else that is of the "Bolter" type. To me this gives a precedent that even though they are similar in their type, it still needs to be the specific wargear mentioned. Combi-weapons still work because they are a fired as either a Boltgun, or the attachment. Firing a Hurricane Bolter is not firing a Boltgun, it just happens to use the profile for the boltgun as a reference.

A Hurricane Bolter "consists of three twin-linked boltguns" so how you can argue it's not actually 3 twin-linked boltguns is entirely beyond me, the very rules for the weapon itself says it is 3 twin-linked boltguns, it doesn't just happen to use the profile, it is made up of that weapon.

Pg. 66 dark angels codex, "any friendly codex: dark angels unit within 12" of this standard re rolls failed morale and pinning tests. In addition all friendly codex: dark angels units within 6" of the standard treat their boltguns as salvo 2/4"

Pg. 56 basic rule book, under boltguns there is a list of bolt guns, including bolt pistol, bolt gun, storm bolter, heavy bolter, and Vulcan mega bolter.

The banner is far too overpriced to simply effect the standard space marine bolter. And as the basic rule book reads, the term boltgun encompasses all bolt weaponry. At least that's how I read it. That's just something they should have addressed in the FAQ .

The banner is not over priced by any means, and bolt guns means only bolt guns as stated by the codex. The main rule book bolt weapon classification having a similar name is poorly implemented but precedent has been set by stern guard bolters.

 michaelcycle wrote:
Pg. 66 dark angels codex, "any friendly codex: dark angels unit within 12" of this standard re rolls failed morale and pinning tests. In addition all friendly codex: dark angels units within 6" of the standard treat their boltguns as salvo 2/4"

Pg. 56 basic rule book, under boltguns there is a list of bolt guns, including bolt pistol, bolt gun, storm bolter, heavy bolter, and Vulcan mega bolter.

The banner is far too overpriced to simply effect the standard space marine bolter. And as the basic rule book reads, the term boltgun encompasses all bolt weaponry. At least that's how I read it. That's just something they should have addressed in the FAQ .

Its not overpriced if you have 2 Dark Talons and a LR crusader getting that banner and making me cry with 75 TL bolter shots against my guardsman, that was not a fun game whatsoever

Dark Talons hav e a heavy bolter. If you mean the fighter with 2 hurricane bolters....

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Dark Talons hav e a heavy bolter. If you mean the fighter with 2 hurricane bolters....

errr, w/e its name is

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Dark Talons hav e a heavy bolter. If you mean the fighter with 2 hurricane bolters....

The Nephilim has heavy bolters, missiles, and an avenger mega bolter or TL lascannon,

Generalchaos was right, it's the Dark Talon with the Hurricane Bolter wings.

Gah, too many "Dark" names - I was getting confused with the 'speeder which grants Stealth....

Apologies everyone

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Gah, too many "Dark" names - I was getting confused with the 'speeder which grants Stealth....

Apologies everyone

regardless of the name, its just a silly amount of firepower on platforms that are not easy at all to kill

generalchaos34 wrote:

 michaelcycle wrote:
Pg. 66 dark angels codex, "any friendly codex: dark angels unit within 12" of this standard re rolls failed morale and pinning tests. In addition all friendly codex: dark angels units within 6" of the standard treat their boltguns as salvo 2/4"

Pg. 56 basic rule book, under boltguns there is a list of bolt guns, including bolt pistol, bolt gun, storm bolter, heavy bolter, and Vulcan mega bolter.

The banner is far too overpriced to simply effect the standard space marine bolter. And as the basic rule book reads, the term boltgun encompasses all bolt weaponry. At least that's how I read it. That's just something they should have addressed in the FAQ .

Its not overpriced if you have 2 Dark Talons and a LR crusader getting that banner and making me cry with 75 TL bolter shots against my guardsman, that was not a fun game whatsoever

Hurricane bolters aren't in the boltgun section.
I'm not sure why you'd want the hurricane bolter to be affected though, going from 3 shots at long range and 6 at short isn't that good of an improvement over 4 shots at long.
Unless you want to pretend a hurricane bolter is 3 individual weapons, which is fine by me, you'll be getting a boat load of Snap-Shots as you greatly exceed the number of weapons you're allowed to fire.
Likewise, a single extra shot from a heavy bolter isn't anything to write home about.

On the other hand, a large number of marines in a fortress of redemption quadruple the fire they are throwing out.
You could be throwing out 200+ bolter shots at 24". It's a giant FU to the Green Tide.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Hurricane bolters aren't in the boltgun section.
I'm not sure why you'd want the hurricane bolter to be affected though, going from 3 shots at long range and 6 at short isn't that good of an improvement over 4 shots at long.
Unless you want to pretend a hurricane bolter is 3 individual weapons, which is fine by me, you'll be getting a boat load of Snap-Shots as you greatly exceed the number of weapons you're allowed to fire.
Likewise, a single extra shot from a heavy bolter isn't anything to write home about.

On the other hand, a large number of marines in a fortress of redemption quadruple the fire they are throwing out.
You could be throwing out 200+ bolter shots at 24". It's a giant FU to the Green Tide.

-Matt

3 x 2 seems like 6 to me. 3 x 4 seems like 12 to me.

A Hurricane Bolter is three twin-linked boltguns fired as a single weapon.

Also, if the Salvo-banner works with all boltguns in the BRB list, then I guess all boltguns are something from that list? So each Hurricane Bolter consists of three twin-linked Vulcan Mega-Bolters. Am I right?

Hawaiimatt - reread what a hurricane bolter literally is; 3 TL boters fired as ONE weapon.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Hawaiimatt - reread what a hurricane bolter literally is; 3 TL boters fired as ONE weapon.

I really really wish we could get an official note on this, because the prospect of LR Crusaders firing 25 max range shots is just sickening. But i can definitely see how it can be interpreted as either ONE weapon or as 3 boltguns, it may rely on your local meta until an official word comes down

24 at long range, and banner is hardy over priced. Used it yesterday and 10 tac marines kicking out 40 shots, LCR kicking out 24 tl shots is hardly over priced. Plus add to salvo overwatch and prescience, its pretty mean!.

That's pretty rad, but still 65 pts for an accessory to a unit is steep to me but then again I play guard so I look at things in relation to the price of vendettas. That banner is half the price of a 12 12 10 flyer with 3 twin linked las cannons. It's about the same price as a vet squad bare bones. I just can't justify that price for any equipment in my mind- wings on the hive tyrant give me the same problem. It's just not feasible to drop that much on an item when you could just get more bodies. Then again I min max everything and am really competitive. I even have problems taking the 30 pt astropath or officer of the fleet. That's 3 more melta guns or 2 more plasma!!

You can buy 5 tactical squad with 70 points, so 65 is a lot of points to be paying for salvo for just boltguns on tacticals. None of my tactical squads are even wholly comprised of boltguns either since there is always one with a heavy weapon.

Then theres the whole question of Salvo the rule. 2 shots if you moved 4 if you hold still. Its another quandry. 65 points for a banner that does that is a perfect cost. 3 10 man tac squads 24 bolters, 3 plasma guns 3 plasma cannons, this at the same time you give the sarg a bolter thats why the 24 bolters. All 3 in range of the banner. All held still 4 shots max range. 102 shots down range 24 inches.. Thats awesome. Well if ya move 12" ranges and um half the shots.

Still, they're bolters. They're not Gauss guns ripping holes in infantry and transports alike. It'd be worth it if necrons got it or storm bolter termis. And you've gotta think you're going to be clustered within 6" of each other with those fat tac squads. That's just asking for someone to drop pie plates on you, before you know it your 30 marines are now dust and that banner you spent so much on to one trick pony bolter blast what, line infantry? Is dead.

WHich is why you stick it on 3 x 6 man raven wing, where you can easily have each unit have one model within 6", and 5 termis in a crusader.

I was thinking about giving a ravening command squad the banner and then running 3x6 bikes, two melta, four plasma and a fat squad of terminators (10 man) with three or 4 th/ss and 2 cyclones. I have a feeling they're not going to give the hurricane bolter the green light on that banner. Plus 5 additional terminators are more survivable than a land raider IMO.

If i were going by what the rules say word for word it looks like pretty much everything that fires a bolt is considered a boltgun and therefore can be made salvo 2/4 by the banner. I would just rely on my size and looks to intimidate my opponent into agreeing that i am correct and my toys can shoot as many shots as i says.