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Well, by accident or design you called my opinion, and therefore, by extension, me, plain absurd.

Now you may not feel that's inflammatory, but I take that as a negative comment and will react accordingly. Especially when you're somehow trying to claim I couldn't form at least an idea of how the game plays and be excited by the prospects, which is all I claimed on my own behalf, which insults my intellect a tad.

with no surprise really I strongly suggest Infinity, its a game with great models, fluid rules and were choosing the models you like ( assuming they make a legal list) usually make a valid list, the power is not in combos, special rules or weapons but in knowing how to sue the models you have fielded.

That been said, the charm of skirmish games (beyond my all time favorite table space to maneuver) is that with less money you can have multiple armies or even game systems, so why not try both, I have not played WM/H, but its a solid system with its own good points.

I am going to go with Infinity on this one. I only played Warmachine one time but i did not enjoy it at all. Plus I like SF better.

I played warmachine for about 2 years and only payed infinity for 1 *game*

Infinity is 'infinitely' better (ho ho!)

Warmahordes is good if you want to do MtG style combos where each new set is better than the last.

Infinity is good if you want to play tactically, respond in your turn and low model count. Also not expensive where warmahordes is pricey despite the low model count.

 Spyral wrote:

Warmahordes is good if you want to do MtG style combos where each new set is better than the last.

That is simply untrue though. You can make a force from the units only in Prime and they'll do just fine. Some of the best casters in the game (pVlad, pDenny, pKreoss to name a few) are from Prime

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Spyral wrote:

Warmahordes is good if you want to do MtG style combos where each new set is better than the last.

That is simply untrue though. You can make a force from the units only in Prime and they'll do just fine. Some of the best casters in the game (pVlad, pDenny, pKreoss to name a few) are from Prime

Yeah, I'm going to agree with that. PP are good at making sure that the new stuff isn't wildly better than the old stuff. I'd like to see where the company is in 20 years, though, if they continue with that.

 Spyral wrote:
I played warmachine for about 2 years and only payed infinity for 1 *game*

Infinity is 'infinitely' better (ho ho!)

Warmahordes is good if you want to do MtG style combos where each new set is better than the last.

Infinity is good if you want to play tactically, respond in your turn and low model count. Also not expensive where warmahordes is pricey despite the low model count.

i strongly disagree. most of the prime casters are still doing heavy rotation. on the PP boards there is a term known as the "doom cycle" which is quite funny.

PP introduces new shiny addition to the game (eg cavalry, gargssals, battle engines etc)
COmmunity apploaudes apprehensively. segments of the community then starts to moan as to how the new shiny will break the game (without seeing any rules of course) and how everyone will need to build lists around said new shiny to be competitive.
New shiny is released and... the sky doesnt fall down. playerbase gets its hands on said new shiny and start playing games. new shiny finds its place amongst everything else, niether eclipsing things, nor being eclipsed.
Doom cycle starts up again as players start to moan as to how the new shiny isnt game breaking, and better than what came before. old hands laugh.

seriously spyral. look at the most recent released. 3pic casters, battle engines, gargantuans/collossals. none of which are mandatory. PP have a reputation for balancing their game extremely well.

the whole "combo" thing has been done. you call them combos, i call them synnergies, and every game has them. heck, martial arts has combos so i fail to see the negative side of it

Now, i play both games. Infinity and Warmachine.

I will not say pick one or the other. do both. free rulebook for infinity, and cheap to get into. and i think its a great game. it really is. it scratches a lot of itches for me in terms of gorgeous models, gripping gameplay etc. however, the player base needs building up. that said though, it has its issues. its a spanish game, so we're dealing with the translated version. and the rulebook is a PITA to go through - i find the writers make the game out to be more complicated and comvoluted than it actually is. the rulebook also lacks decent gallery pages (like warmachine/hordes primal does) and you really do need a hugely excessive amount of terrain to make it work. but on the whole, any gripes i have with infinity are very much small ones.
I also play warmachine/hordes, and in a lot of ways it is my main game. i spend most of my time/money from my gaming budget on warmachine. its bigger, and it has a style and an attitude all of its own. as much as i love infinity, a ressurrected william wallace leading an"army" of 8 angry scots-in-space in infinity. you just cant argue with 10-ton smoke belching fantasy warmechs with battle cannons that should be on battleships. i find WM to be tactically engaging, and varied. it also has an older IP, and therefore more fluff, and more depth to the game universe. also, PP do an excellent job of supporting the player base with yearly/quarterly leagues, excellent tournament support, other trophies and other examples of support. also, the greater community is probably bigger.

Now like i said, i dont see this as an either/or. FOr me, infinity compliments my PP gaming in a very nice way. sometimes you dont want to play a 50pt game. maybe you dont want another game of steam powered fantasy. why not switch it up for a game or two? so yeah, play both.

Hey guys...

I finally decided it, i will not keep myself at a system that i think is flawed, managed by a company who dont want to sell to me (but to 13 year old boys). Im quitting 40k.

But i still like wargames, and i want to keep myself at the painting and playing of the hobby, so i will take another game and play it...

Right now, im beetween Infinity and Warmachine, other player at my area are starting and will migrate too, more or less to what i decide.

I pretty know infinity (never played a game, but made extensive researchs and such).

What i want to know is more about Warmachine: how the company deal with costumers? Do it direct the products to old AND new people? The rules are balanced and dont tend to help newer armies? There is some type of codex creep?

And the main point, do those systems really work with low model count army? Its just i dont see myself assembling and painting big units, and i really wanted a more "skyrmish-like" game...

Thank you guys in advance...

I think a lot of us have been forgetting about the OP!

He knows about Infinity.

Warmachine does involve painting a lot more models than Infinity. Infinity is a lot lower model count. Warmachine doesn't feel like a skirmish game (it's too rigid) so Infinity may be the way you want to go. It is lower count than 40k, however, for most armies.

PP caters to both new and old players. There's the quickstart rules online, so you could proxy some Dreadnoughts and have a beginner game to try it out. Rules are well balanced and new factions for the armies come out all at once, which does kind of mean that if you want the backstory for some units, then you need to buy several books.

So I'm assuming it doesn't really matter about player numbers if players will migrate to the game you will pick up?

.....psssst...

Malifaux.

Just sayin...

An explanation of Malifaux may be in order?

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
An explanation of Malifaux may be in order?

Another awesome game made almost entirely of awesomeness is my best description for it!

Being a new game and worth a spin. Maybe try Warzone?

 Breotan wrote:
.....psssst...

Malifaux.

Just sayin...

It is indeed an awesome game, but OP seems convinced that he wants Infinity or Warmachine.

I have a bit more time now so I can give a more detailed reply, even though the OP hasn't shown a specific interest in it.

Malifaux is a skirmish game with a Victorian sci-fi / horror theme. The game is played almost always with under 10 models on each side and is almost more an action RPG than a miniature game in each every model, even the lowliest trooper will have several abilities to choose from during its activation. There are currently 6 different factions to choose from if I'm not mistaken.

The game plays with alternating activations with each player activating a miniature at a time before passing on to his opponent.

The biggest difference to other skirmish games though, is that a deck of playing cards is used to replace dice! With the number on the card representing the number that you "rolled" and the suit of the card triggering critical effects. Its a mechanic that makes the game take on another tactical aspect that is very interesting IMO.

Malifaux is very unique and requires a good bit of thinking as well as a good deal of luck. The downside is you just about need to have each player sort their decks out in front of them prior to the game to ensure nobody is cheating.

I've seen decks short their low cards, or having extra high cards. Like Hmm I'll just take out the 2's, 3's, and 4's, and replace them with an extra set of 8's, 9's, and 10's. Tee-hee

Other than that it is a great game.

Love the warmachine models watched some games and it totally killed my interest in the game. It's too much like a card game plus dice and no ability to modify anything.

IE where 40K I can take a commander and give him X, Y, Z. In Warmachines each model comes with a card, and that is that. That is why you get combo's/synergies/whatever and when I read tournament after action reports the top 3 placers are always playing the top 1 or 2 "synergies" of units. Doesn't seem to allow for a lot of creativity in list making.

Infinity looks cool but I haven't been able to spark a local interest in it. A game with nobody to play against sucks.

By far Flames of War is still I think the best of the bunch at the moment. They don't care what models you use as long as they're the right model, and the right scale. IE If flames has T-34 tanks at $11 each, and Ole Glory has them at $4 you can field all the Old glory you want and nobody not even the Flames company cares.

However it depends on the person. I've seen a lot of 40k players jump over to Flames of War only to want to pull their hair out game after game because they find themselves unable to use any real tactics beyond their list.

I've also seen Malifaux totally befuddle players. So really it boils down to what kind of game YOU want to play.

Hence why there is such a big divide between people who play 40K and people who play Fantasy.

I am going to go with saying try them all, even the ones you didn't mention.

Before I got in to Warmachine, there was little, to no, community in my area. I was determined to get in to it because I liked the setting and the rules...now, two years later, there is a community and some LGS who got gruff with me about even asking if they would let Warmachine on their tables do so. I am always busy so I have been unable to play but I am glad to know I helped get it started in my area.

Sometimes you have to create the community and if it means you have to be the only one who has the models at first, then so be it...but you already know this.

I am going to point out Warpath - the rules are free, and you can use your human and ork WH40K models if you have any.

The Auld Grump

Wagguy80 wrote:
Malifaux is very unique and requires a good bit of thinking as well as a good deal of luck. The downside is you just about need to have each player sort their decks out in front of them prior to the game to ensure nobody is cheating.

I've seen decks short their low cards, or having extra high cards. Like Hmm I'll just take out the 2's, 3's, and 4's, and replace them with an extra set of 8's, 9's, and 10's. Tee-hee

Other than that it is a great game.

I really, really, really feel sorry for your gaming group if you genuinely have to do this to ensure that people aren't cheating...

Also I find incredibly funny that you say that you don't like Warmachine because:

Wagguy80 wrote:

It's too much like a card game plus dice and no ability to modify anything.
IE where 40K I can take a commander and give him X, Y, Z. In Warmachines each model comes with a card, and that is that.

When Malifaux is exactly the same thing! Each model in Malifaux comes with its own stat card and you can't change anything about it!

Priceless, absolutely priceless!

Wagguy80 wrote:


IE where 40K I can take a commander and give him X, Y, Z. In Warmachines each model comes with a card, and that is that. That is why you get combo's/synergies/whatever and when I read tournament after action reports the top 3 placers are always playing the top 1 or 2 "synergies" of units. Doesn't seem to allow for a lot of creativity in list making.

aye, and of those hundreds of potential builds to give your commander, how many of them actually hit the table top? Face it, there are only a handful of good builds in a handful of good codices in 40k. the rest is just faff, and wasted ink that offers nothing.

as to the top three players taking the rop 1 or 2 "synnergies", i have to disagree. what tournament were you watching? what were their factions? What were their lists? Im sorry, but there is information out there relating to a lot of tournaments, and the simple fact is this: no faction or "build" dominates, whether its warmachine, or hordes. No single caster, or list wins. as opposed to 40k where the same handful of builds from the same handful of lists dominate consistently for whole editions at a time.

there is plenty creativity within the lists. simply changing a caster changes the entire way an army functions.

Sorry for the tangent OP, but i just had to correct this.

It amuses me how many posters are saying something along the lines of 'I like/didn't like game x because of y reason' and then somebody else responds by saying 'well my experience of game x is different, so you're wrong'

These are opinions here people, not arguments, by all means put your point of view forward, but stop trying to correct other people's!

 azreal13 wrote:
These are opinions here people, not arguments, by all means put your point of view forward, but stop trying to correct other people's!

Unless they're actually provably wrong.

That's as may be, but as someone on the fringe of the game, I share the same perception (that combo lists dominate and it's all rock, paper, scissors) as that poster.

Now the facts may not currently support that idea, but I've got that perception from somewhere, and several of my gaming buddies are huge Warmahordes fans, so aren't going to propagate a negative attitude towards the system. So where have I got that idea from if it is a totally baseless concept?

Anyway, we digress.

 azreal13 wrote:
Now the facts may not currently support that idea, but I've got that perception from somewhere, and several of my gaming buddies are huge Warmahordes fans, so aren't going to propagate a negative attitude towards the system. So where have I got that idea from if it is a totally baseless concept?

Side effect of having stat cards, IMO: It makes people think of Magic, so that when the game is described to have units working together to a much higher degree than in GW games, they think of the "Channel, Fireball, win" combos card gaming is famous for. While there are combos in game, they boil down to "take this caster, this unit, and this support solo to make them hit harder than normal/be harder to kill," not "Do these four things with these three models and win the game automatically."

Every caster is going to synergize differently with their army, leading them to want different types of models, which will make a lot of lists using the same caster superficially similar: Kraye will use a lot of high RoF ranged warjacks and a Stormclad or two, while any of the Nemos will have a fairly ridiculous number of jacks on the table and a fairly . Then you'll have casters like Caine2 whose army is something of an afterthought, there mostly to punch a hole to the enemy Caster for him to exploit. However, changing stuff up within a list can drastically alter the way it works: Kraye with Defenders and Sentinels with Ranger support works a lot differently than Kraye with a Stormwall and Hunters.

The rock-paper-scissors concept comes primarily from a few highly focused lists: Butcher2 with Doom Reaver spam will fare poorly against Caine's lawnmower of a feat, while a Rahn army focused entirely on spell slinging will cry when faced with a Skorne or Cryx force that entirely shuts down spell casting. Balanced lists rarely run into match-ups that they can't handle, but then again, won't run into very many match-ups that they stomp either. Combined with Steamroller's 2 list tournament format, this often leads to people bringing a pair of unbalanced lists.

i like these threads.


Both are good games.


Your going to get openions here, thats about it.

I prefer Warmachine.. But thats me.


What is your local community play ?

What models do you like ?

Then you can start either one for $50 and try it.

PhantomViper wrote:

Wagguy80 wrote:
Malifaux is very unique and requires a good bit of thinking as well as a good deal of luck. The downside is you just about need to have each player sort their decks out in front of them prior to the game to ensure nobody is cheating.

I've seen decks short their low cards, or having extra high cards. Like Hmm I'll just take out the 2's, 3's, and 4's, and replace them with an extra set of 8's, 9's, and 10's. Tee-hee

Other than that it is a great game.

I really, really, really feel sorry for your gaming group if you genuinely have to do this to ensure that people aren't cheating...

Also I find incredibly funny that you say that you don't like Warmachine because:

Wagguy80 wrote:

It's too much like a card game plus dice and no ability to modify anything.
IE where 40K I can take a commander and give him X, Y, Z. In Warmachines each model comes with a card, and that is that.

When Malifaux is exactly the same thing! Each model in Malifaux comes with its own stat card and you can't change anything about it!

Priceless, absolutely priceless!

that's true however Warmachine is stat cards + dice. Malifaux has a completely different mechanic using playing cards instead of dice which allow me to overlook the lack of customization.

 Spyder68 wrote:
i like these threads.

What is your local community play ?

What models do you like ?

This. No point in getting into a game that no one else plays, or that you don't like the look of.

Wagguy80 wrote:
Love the warmachine models watched some games and it totally killed my interest in the game. It's too much like a card game plus dice and no ability to modify anything.

C'mon, if you haven't played the game there's no need to talk about it. The ability to modify things in the game comes from using models to give boosts to other models.

"Hmm, my Warjack needs a 10 to hit with 2D6. That's quite a gamble. I'll activate this guy and throw a bomb at him, that will bring his defense down by 4 and make it only 6 to hit. Still risky. I'll use this other Warjack and slam the model. Now it's knocked down and he can hit automatically!"

Infinity is a really cool low model skirmish game, though you will need quite a bit of terrain to play a decent game. Best of all it doesn't have rabid fan boys defending it/Attacking all other gaming systems. I've only played 1 game but I really enjoyed it. The lack of a fan base is the biggest issue with the game.

WarMachine/Hoards is ok, you can play small games or larger ones, the game does become dominated by combo cards in the larger game. The models are very nice, a bit pricey but nothing compared to 40k thought if you want to be able to play various lists you will end up roughly shelling out the same about.
It plays a lot like WHFB, terrain doesn't effect the game much, deployment can lose you the game if your models aren't in the right places to get off your combos.

The biggest issue with WarMachine/Hoards is the fans, most are just jerks epically if you let it be know you play 40k/WHFB. They have a strange sense of superiority because they play a lesser know War game, which is more or less like MtG so you have a lot of cross overs from that crowd.

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
Infinity is a really cool low model skirmish game, though you will need quite a bit of terrain to play a decent game. Best of all it doesn't have rabid fan boys defending it/Attacking all other gaming systems. I've only played 1 game but I really enjoyed it. The lack of a fan base is the biggest issue with the game.

WarMachine/Hoards is ok, you can play small games or larger ones, the game does become dominated by combo cards in the larger game. The models are very nice, a bit pricey but nothing compared to 40k thought if you want to be able to play various lists you will end up roughly shelling out the same about.
It plays a lot like WHFB, terrain doesn't effect the game much, deployment can lose you the game if your models aren't in the right places to get off your combos.

The biggest issue with WarMachine/Hoards is the fans, most are just jerks epically if you let it be know you play 40k/WHFB. They have a strange sense of superiority because they play a lesser know War game, which is more or less like MtG so you have a lot of cross overs from that crowd.

Could you troll a little bit harder, I don't think you are quite there yet...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:
It amuses me how many posters are saying something along the lines of 'I like/didn't like game x because of y reason' and then somebody else responds by saying 'well my experience of game x is different, so you're wrong'

These are opinions here people, not arguments, by all means put your point of view forward, but stop trying to correct other people's!

That is not how things work I'm afraid.

If people say that they don't like the game because of how the models work, or how the players in their area are or some other subjective reason, then you would be right, that was just their opinion.

But if people say that they don't like the game for reasons that are patently false and can be proven as such, then someone will come along and correct them, You don't get to claim falsehoods and then just hand wave them away as "just your opinion".

Wagguy80 wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Wagguy80 wrote:
Malifaux is very unique and requires a good bit of thinking as well as a good deal of luck. The downside is you just about need to have each player sort their decks out in front of them prior to the game to ensure nobody is cheating.

I've seen decks short their low cards, or having extra high cards. Like Hmm I'll just take out the 2's, 3's, and 4's, and replace them with an extra set of 8's, 9's, and 10's. Tee-hee

Other than that it is a great game.

I really, really, really feel sorry for your gaming group if you genuinely have to do this to ensure that people aren't cheating...

Also I find incredibly funny that you say that you don't like Warmachine because:

Wagguy80 wrote:

It's too much like a card game plus dice and no ability to modify anything.
IE where 40K I can take a commander and give him X, Y, Z. In Warmachines each model comes with a card, and that is that.

When Malifaux is exactly the same thing! Each model in Malifaux comes with its own stat card and you can't change anything about it!

Priceless, absolutely priceless!

that's true however Warmachine is stat cards + dice. Malifaux has a completely different mechanic using playing cards instead of dice which allow me to overlook the lack of customization.

And 40k is book + dice. Do you have a real argument or do you just like spouting half formed ideas?