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 Aerethan wrote:
You can still resell current edition books for a decent sum if you decide to drop the army/game.

So, in other words I can sell it as long as I'm selling my figures, too?

I'm currently selling my Tau and am NOT getting significant value on my "investment". In fact, you might say that people buying my stuff are getting some pretty damned good deals. How much do you think my old Tau codex will go for?

 Aerethan wrote:
can you read your ibook on your Mac computer? Can you print out a reference sheet from it?

Don't know. I don't own a Mac. I'm going expect that you can't, though. The iBook is pretty highly customized for the iPad.

 Breotan wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
You can still resell current edition books for a decent sum if you decide to drop the army/game.

So, in other words I can sell it as long as I'm selling my figures, too?

I'm currently selling my Tau and am NOT getting significant value on my "investment". In fact, you might say that people buying my stuff are getting some pretty damned good deals. How much do you think my old Tau codex will go for?

 Aerethan wrote:
can you read your ibook on your Mac computer? Can you print out a reference sheet from it?

Don't know. I don't own a Mac. I'm going expect that you can't, though. The iBook is pretty highly customized for the iPad.

Well, I think you know quite well that buying miniatures isn't an investment. I also suspect you know that used goods are typically worth less than new goods. I'm also pretty sure you understand that selling something you do not want for five dollars gives you more value than retaining the item that you have no desire to possess any more. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that you're being a touch disingenuous about this entire resale issue.

 Breotan wrote:
There is a logic fallacy in here somewhere... if people download PDFs for free already, why would they start to pay $50+ to buy it instead? I suppose there would be a few, but you'd really have to stretch your definitions to call it "stemming the tide". People torrent the PDFs because they are free, not because they don't have an iPad.

So look at that from the other angle... if people are going to share the illegal PDFs anyway, what difference does it make if GW release their digital media in an easier to pirate format? Those who would happily pay for the content if it was available can then do so, and those who have no interest in paying for it can continue to not do so. It's not going to mean more content being pirated... it's all already out there anyway.

The iBook format doesn't stop piracy. A PDF or ePub format wouldn't increase it. And GW are just proving once again that they don't understand the internet if they truly think that they can control the spread of digital media. All they achieve with the iBook format is to exclude that part of their customer base who would love to have legitimate digital copies but don't have an iPad.

the easier stuff is to pirate,

the more people will do it,

so the more likely it is that a copy will end up on a site a prospective 'shopper' will go to (and trust to download stuff from)

so even if you can't prevent piracy, it's worth making it harder

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
Everything is incomplete until it's finished.

And the sky is blue, what's your point?

They haven't bothered to digitize anything but new releases, but not otherwise existing, in-print and in-use books that already existed. The collection is incomplete, and will be for years to come most likely. This means digital copies do not remove the need to haul books around for many/most players, defeating much of the point.

Irrelevant? Hardly, I use the digitial codexs in my current games, so that makes no sense.

Irrelevant for those that have far more complete collections and have had them for many years, available to use on a far wider range of devices at a far lower price point

This 'collection' is something you have in your head, they are rule books for a game. There are only two things that matter. Do you want an iBook copy*, or not. I think GW caters for both options

*I am aware that people want it on other formats, but that is a whole different argument that I won't repeat for the nth time.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
the easier stuff is to pirate,

the more people will do it,

so the more likely it is that a copy will end up on a site a prospective 'shopper' will go to (and trust to download stuff from)

so even if you can't prevent piracy, it's worth making it harder

Can you explain to me how sharing a scanned PDF of a codex is harder than sharing an eBook?

The counter to that argument is that the easier stuff is the buy, the more people will do it. An officially unavailable product (e.g. a codex PDF) will always be pirated, without fail, because there isn't a way to get it legitimately. If it has a reliable and official retail channel? Sales will happen. Look at Steam! The greatest example of ease of acquisition beating out piracy. The thing about publishing a PDF for the codices is that it's trivial! Making a PDF from an already laid out book shouldn't be difficult. Making it available for sale can only be a good thing!

The Apple snobbery here is just hilarious, as it usually is. Beyond that, however, GW would have me as a customer for digital codexes if they were available on a platform other than iPads. I would pay if they gave me the option to.

 insaniak wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
the easier stuff is to pirate,

the more people will do it,

so the more likely it is that a copy will end up on a site a prospective 'shopper' will go to (and trust to download stuff from)

so even if you can't prevent piracy, it's worth making it harder

Can you explain to me how sharing a scanned PDF of a codex is harder than sharing an eBook?

You theoretically have to strip some DRM scheme out of an eBook using the myriad of software that exists for that sole purpose. I've never done it, as I don't really do the "ebook thing", but, as I know people who possess the entire Kindle library and did not pay for it, it must be quite trivial.

Unless you were asking rhetorically, in that case, disregard my answer.

Yeah, largely rhetorical. The point is that the format that GW choose for their digital media has absolutely zero impact on piracy, because piracy has never required original digital media in the first place.

They could release it in a format that requires you to be standing in Tom Kirby's office for it to activate, and someone would still just scan the paper codex and upload it.

When I said PDF, I didn't mean that, I mean iOS. Gah, I'm just too used to saying "PDF" when talking about digital downloads.

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, largely rhetorical. The point is that the format that GW choose for their digital media has absolutely zero impact on piracy, because piracy has never required original digital media in the first place.

They could release it in a format that requires you to be standing in Tom Kirby's office for it to activate, and someone would still just scan the paper codex and upload it.

This.


Ibooks don't impact piracy. Prices, however, do.

As stated, for THIS specific product, there are those out there who are currently scanning books and uploading them scant days after release. Now if those people had PDF's to begin with, perhaps that time would slow down, or those who scan would stop altogether(since they no longer need to make scans).

GW COULD be cashing in on a % of those who currently download pirated PDFs of their content and who choose not to spend $50 for those books, but would spend $25 on a PDF(and having seen manufacturer PDF's of certain Codices, the formatting into consumer PDF's would be minimal since the final pre printed versions are already PDF's).

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
Everything is incomplete until it's finished.

And the sky is blue, what's your point?

When you make a generalized statement about something that's currently under production, or a work in progress, and infer it's bad because everything wasn't released all at once- then expect people to point out that logic is wrong.

It would be bad if they had no plans on making them ever. It's not bad because other products are in the pipeline; it will just take them longer to get to the ones you want.

 Aerethan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, largely rhetorical. The point is that the format that GW choose for their digital media has absolutely zero impact on piracy, because piracy has never required original digital media in the first place.

They could release it in a format that requires you to be standing in Tom Kirby's office for it to activate, and someone would still just scan the paper codex and upload it.

This.


Ibooks don't impact piracy. Prices, however, do.

As stated, for THIS specific product, there are those out there who are currently scanning books and uploading them scant days after release. Now if those people had PDF's to begin with, perhaps that time would slow down, or those who scan would stop altogether(since they no longer need to make scans).

GW COULD be cashing in on a % of those who currently download pirated PDFs of their content and who choose not to spend $50 for those books, but would spend $25 on a PDF(and having seen manufacturer PDF's of certain Codices, the formatting into consumer PDF's would be minimal since the final pre printed versions are already PDF's).

I agree. You can't stop piracy, but you can mitigate it by offering a good deal that will tempt people who would otherwise not buy it (whether they pirate it or just read a friend's copy).

GW doesn't have a pipeline. They've said so themselves. Armies get redone when the mood strikes a writer to redo the book, then the models are designed and rules written for those models.

I'll put it this way, sense we're getting stuck on terms:

The codex are coming out at an extremely fast rate compared to before. Once we go through the codex for armies that don't have them, the ones that got skipped will be created.

Why do I think that? GW will want ways of bringing in new revenue after they've gone through all the splash updates. It'll be too soon to start a new revision of the rules, so will help. We all know how much GW loves money, so there's no reason for them not to put out more things to sell. Being a BA player, I know I'm going to have a long wait for my codex to come out digitally. : /

 insaniak wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
There is a logic fallacy in here somewhere... if people download PDFs for free already, why would they start to pay $50+ to buy it instead? I suppose there would be a few, but you'd really have to stretch your definitions to call it "stemming the tide". People torrent the PDFs because they are free, not because they don't have an iPad.

So look at that from the other angle... if people are going to share the illegal PDFs anyway, what difference does it make if GW release their digital media in an easier to pirate format? Those who would happily pay for the content if it was available can then do so, and those who have no interest in paying for it can continue to not do so. It's not going to mean more content being pirated... it's all already out there anyway.

The iBook format doesn't stop piracy. A PDF or ePub format wouldn't increase it. And GW are just proving once again that they don't understand the internet if they truly think that they can control the spread of digital media. All they achieve with the iBook format is to exclude that part of their customer base who would love to have legitimate digital copies but don't have an iPad.

Speaking for myself, I'm in the process of trying to pick up the various paper codices I've missed out on in the last 5-10 years. I don't own an iPad and have no intention to purchase one, but I do have PCs, Laptop, netbook etc and considering buying an inexpensive tablet. Would I pay (a reasonable price) for PDF versions of the codices to use? I sure would. Unfortunately, the only way to get PDF versions of these books to use on my current devices is to torrent them - and there's the rub!

It's funny: if GW had simply released "only a PDF" you can bet your bottom dollar people here would be complaining that GW took the easy, lazy way out and didn't add any benefit to the codex.

As to Apple snobbery: where? I love how there are some folks that like to pull that card simply because someone owns an ipad. We got ours because it has the Best App Store and we already had content on our iTunes account. And when we bought it (we have a gen 2) it was CLEARLY the best device on the market. My wife had a Nexus 7. We like it, for the most part, but a recent OS update has rendered the battery virtually worthless. It drains faster than if I was streaming HD content on my iPad

Azazelx wrote:Unfortunately, the only way to get PDF versions of these books to use on my current devices is to torrent them...

Well, there's also the option to scan them... and given our newish copyright law amendments, that's even a legal option if you're just looking for backup copies of your print books.

cincydooley wrote:It's funny: if GW had simply released "only a PDF" you can bet your bottom dollar people here would be complaining that GW took the easy, lazy way out and didn't add any benefit to the codex.

What 'added benefit' do they need? It's a codex. That's all it needs to be.

 insaniak wrote:

Azazelx wrote:Unfortunately, the only way to get PDF versions of these books to use on my current devices is to torrent them...

Well, there's also the option to scan them... and given our newish copyright law amendments, that's even a legal option if you're just looking for backup copies of your print books.

cincydooley wrote:It's funny: if GW had simply released "only a PDF" you can bet your bottom dollar people here would be complaining that GW took the easy, lazy way out and didn't add any benefit to the codex.

What 'added benefit' do they need? It's a codex. That's all it needs to be.

Exactly. If you want to pay full price to have all manner of search and pop up functionality, go for it. I don't need that, and I don't want to pay for it.

I've already outlined quite a few reasons to have a simple, inexpensive PDF codex earlier, and fancy pop ups are not one of them.

I've never been a big fan of anything digital. I prefer to have the physical copy. What happens if your ipad die's and you have no way to replace it. Or what if your coputer die's. I'd much rather have the physical copy of anything weither its a book or a cd. I'm glad they give it as an option for those that choose to use it. More options are good. Still not buying death from the skies though. I'm not paying 30 dollars for a page of rules. I have patience I can wait.

A basic form of digital codex and then an upgraded version for those that relish such things, much like the current crop of "limited edition" books that come out with each army/rules release.

Just a FYI and not defending or nay saying anything but i can build an app in indesign that does everything the ebook does. Hover-overs, 360 images, all that. Indesign CS6 can make extremely intricate pdfs with the DPS builder plug ins. Now i would agree that IOS distributing is much tighter, better organized and better watched over than others. You really can say a PDF can't do what they have now.

Also don't forget that in the ebooks and pdfs once you create a template the work is done. You are just linking new pictures and text.

Also i have seen full 6th edition rulebooks completely scanned in and read by acrobat OCR. EVerything is read and bookmarked accordingly. I personally do not need that as i like to have an open book near me.

I would love it actually as a consumer if they gave you a code upon purchasing a physical copy to download it on your chosen device for free or even a small fee at the register. Sort of like selling insurance on electronics. I buy the physical codex at the register and I would have the option to get a code for the digital download for say another 5 or 10 dollars.

 wowsmash wrote:
I've never been a big fan of anything digital. I prefer to have the physical copy. What happens if your ipad die's and you have no way to replace it. Or what if your coputer die's. I'd much rather have the physical copy of anything weither its a book or a cd.

This is basically why I don't want to buy anything that's linked to a single device. I don't have to worry about my music being lost because my computer dies because I have it all on 2 separate computers + a backup on an external HDD and it's also on my phone. I'm not overly worried about losing my video games, if Steam goes down it's a problem, but my house could explode and I would still be able to download all my games again.

The idea of a digital product is more robust than a physical product because you can lose a device but not have lost the product and you can carry hundreds of products with you unlike a physical product which you can lose and to carry more than a couple of books around is inconvenient.

BUT, GW have missed that boat by making it iPad only. I don't trust the lifespan of an iPad and when the iPad dies, who wants to have to buy another one specifically because all your products can only be viewed through one?

If they made digital versions that were actually cross platform, even if it required some proprietary software to read, I'd be all over the GW digital products (even if I do think some of them are overpriced... though I think the print versions are overpriced too so I'm not singling out digital on that point).

 Moopy wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
Everything is incomplete until it's finished.

And the sky is blue, what's your point?

When you make a generalized statement about something that's currently under production, or a work in progress, and infer it's bad because everything wasn't released all at once- then expect people to point out that logic is wrong.

It would be bad if they had no plans on making them ever. It's not bad because other products are in the pipeline; it will just take them longer to get to the ones you want.

If you're going to define "complete" as "only as they're done", sure, yes it's a work in progress, but the fact remains many books that are likely to be around for quite a while aren't going to ever see digital editions, and that negates much of the point of having such digital editions if you still need to carry book copies around that aren't any more expensive, thus the utility is greatly negated.

Just for curiosity hi much space do the codex take up. Is it the same for each dex or does it depend on the book?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 wowsmash wrote:
I've never been a big fan of anything digital. I prefer to have the physical copy. What happens if your ipad die's and you have no way to replace it. Or what if your coputer die's. I'd much rather have the physical copy of anything weither its a book or a cd.

This is basically why I don't want to buy anything that's linked to a single device. I don't have to worry about my music being lost because my computer dies because I have it all on 2 separate computers + a backup on an external HDD and it's also on my phone. I'm not overly worried about losing my video games, if Steam goes down it's a problem, but my house could explode and I would still be able to download.....

Yeah....that's pretty much how iTunes works. If you're not worried about steam, you shouldn't be worried about iTunes. And all concerns about "losing it" are IMO silly, as every one can be applied to a regular book as well.

BUT, GW have missed that boat by making it iPad only. I don't trust the lifespan of an iPad and when the iPad dies, who wants to have to buy another one specifically because all your products can only be viewed through one?

If they made digital versions that were actually cross platform, even if it required some proprietary software to read, I'd be all over the GW digital products (even if I do think some of them are overpriced... though I think the print versions are overpriced too so I'm not singling out digital on that point).

You lost me here. "Lifespan of an ipad?" Really? I have an 11 year old iPod that still works great and is still supported by iTunes. I think you'd be really hard pressed to find any computer based electronics with longer life spans than iDevices.

It is so freaking hard to not throw more lather into the Apple fight but, gah, this is Dakka not Slashdot.

wowsmash wrote:Just for curiosity hi much space do the codex take up. Is it the same for each dex or does it depend on the book?

I want to say they're in the 500MB-1GB range, but that may have been people talking about White Dwarf issues. I know someone who's been regretting his decision to get the smallest iPad mini because the WD stuff is taking up all the storage on it.

 wowsmash wrote:
Just for curiosity hi much space do the codex take up. Is it the same for each dex or does it depend on the book?

The chaos daemons book is 1.67GB it seems :0 not tiny
Dark angels it says 1.03GB
Tau is 1.40GB
Chaos space marines 887MB
Space marines 362MB

So it varies a lot.