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Love the SOB Leviathan

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/55561-Apocalypse%2C%20Imperial%20Guard%2C%20Leviathan%2C%20Scratch%20Build%2C%20Super-heavy.html

Want one !

 Pouncey wrote:

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Things I think the Sisters would need if released as a 6th edition army.

A new troops unit. Something like Sisters in augmented power armour, better than regular armour but not to the level of Terminator Armour. Say a 3+, 6+inv with S & T 4 and two wounds. Kind of like a light weight Paladin. Make it an Elites choice that can hold or contest objectives.

Sisters of Battle already have a 6+ invulnerable save.

I did not know that, thank you. So then maybe a 3+, 5+inv. Or to make the unit a little different, how about a 3+ armour, and a one time use 2+ inv? Kind of representing the armour is strong enough to stop most any wound, but in doing so is damaged to the point that it can't do it again.

So we have the "mobile cathedral" as acceptable option .

Aren't the sisters suffering from the imperial specialization issue here? Guard shouldn't have fliers. Extra large walkers should fly the colors of the mechanicum. Marines shouldn't use slow and lumbering wargear. etc pp.




But at least, whenever the SoB return , GW surely has upscaled already and you get no kit, but a costume...to be said walker....

A giant massage stick.

1hadhq wrote:Aren't the sisters suffering from the imperial specialization issue here? Guard shouldn't have fliers. Extra large walkers should fly the colors of the mechanicum. Marines shouldn't use slow and lumbering wargear. etc pp.

It's a valid thought in terms of background limitations. The Sisters suffer from being "Marines Lite", covering many the same angles in that they are specialised on quick and decisive strikes - not quite as hard as the Marines (drop pods aren't standard), but much closer to them than to the prolonged-action capability of the Guard. I suppose it could be argued that in this regard too they fall somewhere in-between them in that unlike the Marines, who tend to leave and redeploy again quickly after delivering the strike, the Sisters might just opt to linger around and do mop-up operations - something the Astartes usually leave to the IG.

Following this train of thought, perhaps the cathedral could be justified as sort of mini-convent intended to both aid in breaching a heavily fortified position as well as, after this, becoming the temporary headquarters for the detachment and any allied contingents. With the Marines' Leviathan as a precedent, I suppose rare exceptions from the rule could be forgiven when a vehicle would fill an occasionally useful role. The more I think about this, however, the more I feel that this is Apoc only stuff, as I don't believe there would be many such vehicles in existence, and that they'd only get fielded during a crusade where the Ecclesiarchy steamrolls an entire planet ...

... was I perhaps thinking too big? What other smaller options could there be, aside from just a slightly bigger tank or a bigger walker, which just doesn't sound very unique? It could also be some sort of oversized Saint (Soulstorm-style), but that would be a tad too fantastical for my taste.

Going back to the Vessel of Judgment that angel of ecstasy posted, I also remembered seeing this in both a Total War game as well as the movie Kingdom of Heaven:



And then I remembered a comment I once read on another forum. I don't recall the exact quote but it was something along the lines "Space Marines have tanks they turn into relics - the Ecclesiarchy should just take relics, throw a ton of money at the Mechanicus, and turn them into tanks!"

In this spirit, perhaps it could be some wicked wheeled symbol of the faith that is supposed to instill terror in the hearts of the heathen and raise the spirits of the faithful, as well as having some powerful and strange weapon built into its chassis? A massive multi-axle chariot of divine retribution that carries a huge golden skull that shoots turbo-laser blasts out of its mouth or something equally ridiculous.

 Sigvatr wrote:
A giant massage stick.

Already released for Space marines

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
A giant massage stick.

Already released for Space marines

Too small.

"Ribbed for his pleasure"?

So most people think it'll either be

-Giant penitent

-Cathedral/altar tank

No other ideas or musings?

I do hope they put the penitents inside the machine though and explain they're sisters of battle put into the machines not random sinners. Add a bit of unity to the army units. Less silly.

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Things I think the Sisters would need if released as a 6th edition army.

A new troops unit. Something like Sisters in augmented power armour, better than regular armour but not to the level of Terminator Armour. Say a 3+, 6+inv with S & T 4 and two wounds. Kind of like a light weight Paladin. Make it an Elites choice that can hold or contest objectives.

Is a second troop choice of WS4 BS3 S4 T3 A2 I4 3+/6++ too much to ask? It could be extra expensive. Give them hand flamers and a power weapon?

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Penitent Engine. A plastic kit that could be built into two different versions, say a lighter version armed with a heavy flamer, two close combat weapons and a jump pack as a fast attack choice and a heavier version with longer range, higher power weapons for fire support, a heavy choice.

Just move PE's to the elite slot and they're golden.

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Check out the Voss Lightning Strike Fighter from Forgeworld. Make this in plastic and make it a Fast Attack choice for the Sisters. Include icons for the popular Space Marine chapters and let them take it too. GW will sell tons of them.

The avenger strike fighter is great, it's not just better than a retributer squad or an exorcist for the points. Make them fast attack and they're perfect too.

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
A plastic kit that can make all of the various Sisters units, much like the Grey Knights Strike Squad kit.

+1

If they're going to get a new big unit i'd make it some sort of armored anti infantry tank. Ideally i'd take an exorcist and give it a front attachment like the ww2 US m4 sherman's mine sweeper flail. Picture an exorcist with 5 arco flagellents strapped to the front, aka an exorcist with a deth roller. No real big guns, just fast moving carnage and mayhem.

 Lynata wrote:
Whoah. I've seen the last one already, but the two middle ones are new to me, and quite brilliant.

Personally, I'd probably opt for the 3rd one (though it slightly resembles this Space Marine supertank I vaguely remember from Epic 40k) and remove some of the weapons, as it looks very close to the cool Codex artwork already. Working from that idea, it'd just need some cool ability/function to be useful in spite of (apparently) not sporting a lot of big guns...

Also:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I don't buy it.
I refuse to believe the SoB will get a new codex or models in the next 100 years.

A healthy dose of cynism really does make taking the cruel truth behind it so much easier.

The marines never had a Levithan.

deviantduck wrote:Is a second troop choice of WS4 BS3 S4 T3 A2 I4 3+/6++ too much to ask? It could be extra expensive. Give them hand flamers and a power weapon?

I'd rather any new units don't stomp on established studio fluff. Battle Sisters are the basis of a convent, similar to Tactical Marines. More elite Sisters become Seraphim or Celestians, and I feel that Elite infantry should go into the appropriate force org slot.
If a second troop choice is an option, I'd rather have them gain something cheaper instead. Perhaps an equivalent to the Marines' Scouts. Like ... Novices. To make up for the lost ISTs, if you will.

Imho, one of the interesting aspects about this army has always been that they are organised in the same manner as a Marine Chapter, yet still different once you look closer. "Similar but distinct." It's a trend I'd like to see being continued.

deviantduck wrote:

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:Check out the Voss Lightning Strike Fighter from Forgeworld. Make this in plastic and make it a Fast Attack choice for the Sisters. Include icons for the popular Space Marine chapters and let them take it too. GW will sell tons of them.

The avenger strike fighter is great, it's not just better than a retributer squad or an exorcist for the points. Make them fast attack and they're perfect too.

As far as flyers are concerned, I'd wish for the Lightning and the Valkyrie. I think those designs look much more 40k'ish than the "WW2" type fighters you mentioned, though that may be a matter of perception. Of course, I may be somewhat biased as those were the first flyers I've seen SoB units use anywhere (-> Soulstorm), although I've always loved the Valkyrie in general. It's just a sexy design. <3

JWhex wrote:The marines never had a Levithan.

They had in Final Liberation.
Granted, obviously not a direct studio source (and it is likely known by now what I always preach about those ), but as the original Epic 40k rules are a bit hard to find I've always just assumed the game aimed for an accurate reproduction of the TT rules, until I see something to the contrary.

An epic sized panini grill to toast their enemies to grilled sammich yummyness.

The Valkyrie is indeed a sexy, sexy design, and I mourn the loss of them far more than I regret losing any other Inquisitional silliness.

I had to start a Guard army because of that. :(

The other option rather than penitents would be a giant pulpit. Either a walker (likely) or some kind of super-rhino with a fighting platform only available as a dedicated transport for priests.

Provides melee smashiness, heavy weapons support, and faith/morale bonusses.

 Lynata wrote:


And then I remembered a comment I once read on another forum. I don't recall the exact quote but it was something along the lines "Space Marines have tanks they turn into relics - the Ecclesiarchy should just take relics, throw a ton of money at the Mechanicus, and turn them into tanks!"

In this spirit, perhaps it could be some wicked wheeled symbol of the faith that is supposed to instill terror in the hearts of the heathen and raise the spirits of the faithful, as well as having some powerful and strange weapon built into its chassis? A massive multi-axle chariot of divine retribution that carries a huge golden skull that shoots turbo-laser blasts out of its mouth or something equally ridiculous.

Carries a golden skull and GW? Sorry, it will be a giant skull, decorated with skulls, shooting skulls at the unbelievers.

But the idea of sisters as the army with a chariot type vehicle may work.

You could start small:

- basic HQ, sisters , some rhino based basic vehicles.
- members of the ecclesiarchy, enraged mob of citizens as cheap tarpit unit, servitorized heretics, penitent engines.
- no psykers, but maybe an improved ability to disbelief , ie deny the witch?
- increase morale, decrease morale of the enemy. Tie it to relics and make em mobile. Small ones to carry and attach to vehicles and a extra large rare type of rolling war-shrine.
- fliers. The role to fly and be 'angelic' is given to Saints and Seraphim. Maybe a "spear-like" AA weapon to be used whilst flying high?
( am not saying throw a spear , just let it look a bit like something archaic. A missile based AA system ...

1hadhq wrote:Carries a golden skull and GW? Sorry, it will be a giant skull, decorated with skulls, shooting skulls at the unbelievers.

1hadhq wrote:enraged mob of citizens as cheap tarpit unit

So, Frateris Militia. Definitively +1 to this - always thought it was sad they were taken out. Ecclesiarchy Conclaves make little sense if they're not there to lead huge swathes of crazed civvies.

1hadhq wrote:no psykers, but maybe an improved ability to disbelief , ie deny the witch?

I always thought that the 3E Shield of Faith was much more characterful than the lame 5E Invul Save version, too. Sure, you could say that the new save is a sort of FNP Lite where their zeal just lets them refuse to lie down and die peacefully, but thematically, the ability to just ignore harmful as well as benevolent psyker spells was a much more obvious fit, imo.

1hadhq wrote:increase morale, decrease morale of the enemy. Tie it to relics and make em mobile. Small ones to carry and attach to vehicles and a extra large rare type of rolling war-shrine.

The small and vehicle-borne versions exist already (Simulacrum, Laud Hailers..), although I feel the Book of St. Lucius needs to return. The XXL version ties well in to the skull or the chariot/pulpit idea.
Another idea could be carried and captureable relics that are both a boon as well as a risk to the player. Bring 'em to the front and enjoy their benefits. But if the enemy manages to capture and defile one, well ... your girls won't like that. Although this could perhaps have a double-sided effect, too, in that at first it's a big shock to the SoB army, but then they get "rage" benefits for attacking the enemy who has stolen the relic. Might be getting too complicated now, though ...

1hadhq wrote:fliers. The role to fly and be 'angelic' is given to Saints and Seraphim. Maybe a "spear-like" AA weapon to be used whilst flying high?
( am not saying throw a spear , just let it look a bit like something archaic. A missile based AA system ...

Love it! Angels with spears are a common theme in religious art, so obviously there's potential to tap here.

lol at the lance of Longinus there.

He's compensating for the chem-gelding.

Troops in plastic. Epic.

Some something different how about this?

One of the old rumors for the Witch Hunter codex is they'd get psykers crucified on Aquilla's. So how about a giant Aquilla, on a cart, with psykers hanging off it firing off blasts of energy?

Alternately leave them off for some sort of protection field.

Add some bolter and flamer turrets and you're golden.

Grimdark, impractical, evil, dual use.

I like the idea of a Chariot based unit, with either a Relic for army wide buffs, or Burning Heretics to cause some kind of Torrent madness. Though I'd be perfectly happy with the WD codex we have, if the Immolator had a Inferno Cannon with Torrent.

@Lynata, in the Epic game the Leviathan was a unit of the Imperial Guard. I have the various rule sets and the marines never had a leviathan. I dont think everything has to come out of a codex or rule set, but junk from videogames I dont really consider worthwhile if it contradicts everything else you know about the faction.

The whole idea of a huge ponderous warmachine like the leviathan being fielded by the space marines goes against their doctrine of being an elite, surgical strike type of force. It can be dismissed easily out of hand.

HisDivineShadow wrote:Troops in plastic. Epic.

Have an exalt.

JWhex wrote:@Lynata, in the Epic game the Leviathan was a unit of the Imperial Guard. I have the various rule sets and the marines never had a leviathan. I dont think everything has to come out of a codex or rule set, but junk from videogames I dont really consider worthwhile if it contradicts everything else you know about the faction.

The whole idea of a huge ponderous warmachine like the leviathan being fielded by the space marines goes against their doctrine of being an elite, surgical strike type of force. It can be dismissed easily out of hand.

The same game gave the Marines Knight Paladins as their Titan, although only the computer could actually field them because of a bug in the army builder.

Anyway, we all know that the truly epic thing from FinLib was Commissar Holt.

JWhex wrote:@Lynata, in the Epic game the Leviathan was a unit of the Imperial Guard. I have the various rule sets and the marines never had a leviathan. I dont think everything has to come out of a codex or rule set, but junk from videogames I dont really consider worthwhile if it contradicts everything else you know about the faction.

Fair enough. As I said I've (sadly!) never had a chance to look at the original, decades-old OOP rulebook, and the argument about a Leviathan being too slow for their combat doctrine has merit. I guess I just expected there to be some cop-out explanation like there sometimes is for other things in 40k.

I also agree about the deviating visions from videogames, novels and other outsourced products, of course. Sometimes, they have some neat ideas that would fit in nicely, but other times ... well, it is as you said. Even though 40k does not have a canon policy, I myself am sticking firmly to GW's fluff as well.

mecha SoB

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
No other ideas or musings?

The Living Saint ala DoW series released as a huge plastic kit. Flying Monstrous Creature, incredibly tough and dangerous... and it stands back up when you kill it.

They'll get a Nundam.

Even though a lot of people like the idea of a mobile fort/chapel I think that is too big for 40k, even if GW does something stupid and puts a baneblade in the next codex.

A giant walker is kind of a meh idea because it is the overused/default.

Thinking about what the sisters actually do in battle leads to some different kinds of ideas as to what they might find useful. They are a close range firefight army so I think some of these units would be appropriate but they may not really be "epic" enough for most people.

An aircraft like the A-10 Warthog for close combat support.

A vehicle that like the land raider, the SoB could assault directly out of. Something land raider size that could hold a couple of squads.

Vindicator, this is a short range weapon and I think it fits well with the idea of the nuns charging up to some heretic's fortress, breaching its gate and pounding it before they go all Leroy Jenkins with their flamers. Its a brutal relatively short range tank on a rhino chasis so I think it really fits with the SoB approach.

Access to Knights and vendettas.

It is important to remember that Knight Households are separate from the IG as is the Navy. Now suppose the IG do get a Knight, there is no reason why the SoB could not also request the same assistance from a Knight Household. Likewise the Navy would be supplying the A-10 above so their is no reason that the Sisters could not ask the same for vendetta support.

I want to emphasize that I think they should be able to take these units without allying with the IG. By getting a giant walker from a knight house hold and aircraft from the Navy then we dont need any stupid retcons or gymnastics with the background. Also this enables the SoB to get some air support but leaves the option open for allies as well.

For those that dont have access to the old epic rules, there were a variety of knights and equipping one for close combat support is consistent with the background.

I dont think any of this will come to pass but it is the direction I would go. It gives the SoB access to some of the things they need and the kits suggested could find a role in the IG, except the Vindicator, but it already is in use by marines.

If the SoB ever did get plastic models I would surely model them with tails and horns and probably topless for my traitor guard army as allies. Well at least one breast exposed per slaanesh anyway.

JWhex wrote:

a)
- Vindicator,
b)
- we don't need any stupid retcons or gymnastics with the background.

IG has StuG type vehicles, based on Russ Hulls. Sisters have no artillery yet. A full-sized dex should expand the range of weapons.
Flame, melt, bolt, missile as the limited range they have. Maybe a rare system reintroduced could make sense for their siege gear?
Sound based for example... Or gravity... let them crumble under the weigth of their sins...
Basically the dual kit solution, one being the Exorcist and the other the new tank.
The Exorcist to barrage , the other to " open the doors " . Exorcist providing swarms of missiles and blasts, the yet unnamed one more focused and a line shot. Short ranged, but deadly and better armored.

Would this need gymnastics with the background? No, they found it somehwere... Really.

I would assume that fluffwise, that rather than have anything of their own, the SoB would rely upon whatever Superheavy Tank or Imperial Knight that is being used by the Imperial Guard regiments fighting alongside them.