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JWhex wrote:

 Consul Scipio wrote:

JWhex wrote:
There are many excellent nonGW miniature makers, but you wont find a cheap army that looks half decent. I have started a Korean theme Empire counts as army with Perry Bro, miniatures, but it is getting to be hella expensive.

<Consul Scipio looks over at his massive stack of Perry Choeson Koreans in need of an excuse to finish> JWhex, you sir get an internet cookie for such a good idea and inspiring me to finish this great looking range of miniatures. Thank you.

Yeah those figs are awesome, now if I could just figure out how to use my 28 mm scale resin Turtle Boat in Warhammer I would be set.

Steam Tank? Land Ship?

Is WH Fantasy really still being played in places?

I haven't seen a game of it played in at least 2 years. And it used to be bigger than everything else put together.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Is WH Fantasy really still being played in places?

I haven't seen a game of it played in at least 2 years. And it used to be bigger than everything else put together.

Yes. More frequently than 40k sometimes in my FLGS.

 sourclams wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Sure GW can axe fantasy. And you better believe other companies will move into the void but quick, to pick up all the disgruntled WFB players.

Privateer Press already seems to have done this in a big way. Warmachine/Hordes have gone from unranked to higher-than-Fantasy in the last 5 years or so.

True.

Now how 'bout something for those of us who prefer line of battle to skirmish, and prefer fantasy to steampunk?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Is WH Fantasy really still being played in places?

I haven't seen a game of it played in at least 2 years. And it used to be bigger than everything else put together.

No, you're right. The fact that you haven't seen a game in stores or clubs you frequent is totally representative of the entire world, and GW have been doing huge updates to Fantasy ranges in the hopes that, one day, some day, someone will buy a Fantasy kit.

 Cyporiean wrote:

12thRonin wrote:
They could, but they won't. It is a flagship product.

Weren't Epic and Lord of The Rings?

Granted LOTR 'became' The Hobbit, but still.

Epic was featured in old White Dwarf magazines almost as heavily as Fantasy and 40K and had a fair sized amount of store space devoted to it.

Relapse wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

12thRonin wrote:
They could, but they won't. It is a flagship product.

Weren't Epic and Lord of The Rings?

Granted LOTR 'became' The Hobbit, but still.

Epic was featured in old White Dwarf magazines almost as heavily as Fantasy and 40K and had a fair sized amount of store space devoted to it.

Again, if you missed it earlier - cutting Epic didn't cut 40k as an IP, they still had a game in that setting. Cutting Warhammer Fantasy is completely different, because it's the only game they currently sell in that universe. So they're effectively be giving up the Fantasy IP if they drop Fantasy Battles. The sole reason they won't do it is because of that - and shareholders would hate to see a yearly report that says 'we gave up 1/3 of our IP', when their IP is their most valuable asset.

If WHFB is really declining, it's because of things that GW has done on purpose, or, rather, what they haven't.

40k has tons of books, and RPGs, and movies, and video games about it. GW spends way more focus (and money) advertising and making content for 40k while doing much, much less for WHFB. Of course fantasy is going to suffer if they don't give it very much attention (and take what attention they did have and peel it off towards their other fantasy game in a desperate bid to make it profitable).

It's not so much a problem with fantasy being bad, so much as it not being played up as much of late.

 Ailaros wrote:
If WHFB is really declining, it's because of things that GW has done on purpose, or, rather, what they haven't.

40k has tons of books, and RPGs, and movies, and video games about it. GW spends way more focus (and money) advertising and making content for 40k while doing much, much less for WHFB. Of course fantasy is going to suffer if they don't give it very much attention (and take what attention they did have and peel it off towards their other fantasy game in a desperate bid to make it profitable).

It's not so much a problem with fantasy being bad, so much as it not being played up as much of late.

Which is pretty much the same vicious circle that happened to Specialist Games and various languishing armies in 40K and WHF. Lack of updates & promotion from GW leads to less attention from the players, meaning less sales, so less attention from GW compared to the latest Space Marines.

Eventually they will end up with only 40k with Space Marines as their 'core' game.

 Shandara wrote:
Eventually they will end up with only 40k with Space Marines as their 'core' game.

Switch Xenos production to FW and Horus Heresy to the studio and they're there...... I'm almost surprised they haven't done it already so they can just stick to making plastic Space Marine kits.

 Shandara wrote:
Eventually they will end up with only 40k with Space Marines as their 'core' game.

Old joke is old.

GW have been giving other armies the lions share of attention in 6th edition, with only one Space Marine book in the first 5 releases (well, two if you count Chaos Marines), with the other made up of Daemons and xenos. The historacally predictable first codex being vanilla Space Marines was shuffled down to book six. Space marines are an important part of 40k to GW, but they've not been giving them the attention this edition - it's almost like they listened to fans who were screaming 'update the bloody xenos!'.

Vulcan wrote:
Now how 'bout something for those of us who prefer line of battle to skirmish, and prefer fantasy to steampunk?

I recommend you play a game that actually gives you the opportunity to enact linear tactics, changing the scale as well to 10mm or similar in the process. WHFB, while certainly a popular game, is a pretty poor attempt at giving you lines of battle. Most reenactment skirmish battles I attend have more people fighting than there are models in a WHFB battle - WHFB is a skirmish game. And no, 1 model does not represent 10 men under the current ruleset.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Eventually they will end up with only 40k with Space Marines as their 'core' game.

Old joke is old.

GW have been giving other armies the lions share of attention in 6th edition, with only one Space Marine book in the first 5 releases (well, two if you count Chaos Marines), with the other made up of Daemons and xenos. The historacally predictable first codex being vanilla Space Marines was shuffled down to book six. Space marines are an important part of 40k to GW, but they've not been giving them the attention this edition - it's almost like they listened to fans who were screaming 'update the bloody xenos!'.

I thought Dark Angels were the first codex? Looks like a space marine release to me.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Eventually they will end up with only 40k with Space Marines as their 'core' game.

Old joke is old.

GW have been giving other armies the lions share of attention in 6th edition, with only one Space Marine book in the first 5 releases (well, two if you count Chaos Marines), with the other made up of Daemons and xenos. The historacally predictable first codex being vanilla Space Marines was shuffled down to book six. Space marines are an important part of 40k to GW, but they've not been giving them the attention this edition - it's almost like they listened to fans who were screaming 'update the bloody xenos!'.

I thought Dark Angels were the first codex? Looks like a space marine release to me.

No... It was CSM

 Vulcan wrote:
Sure GW can axe fantasy. And you better believe other companies will move into the void but quick, to pick up all the disgruntled WFB players.

I'm sure Mantic would absolutely love it if they did... b/c all those fantasy players would probably move over to KOW... KOW is actually a pretty fun ruleset to play.

pgmason wrote:
Most of the people talking about a drop off in Fantasy seem to be from America. Locally to me (Southampton, UK) I've seen a renewed interest since 8th - lots of older players (from 3rd,4th&5th) returning and a fair few new starters.

I think over here 8th has sold pretty well. It's probably very variable dependent on local factors.

Its actually very regional in my experience at our GW if you want a game of 40k you have to schedule it ahead of time if you want a game of fantasy just walk in. The rules don't prevent people from bringing 40k just no one does.

In the midwest Fantasy is huge.

At least once a month there is a large 2 day event in a 4-5 hour drive from me. Today I'm driving to one in Chicago that has 90 players. Registration filled up in December.

Fantasy is booming in Arizona, gotta love conspiracy theories on GW axing WHFB

Even if x outsold y, it does not mean that y is not profitable.

Random anecdote:
With my having switched primarily to Fantasy, its popularity here has gone up infinitely.

Fact.

I am sure it is posdible. However it would be a huge mistake. I prefer Fantasy over 40k, I think that really, everything is better. Rules, armies, Lore, the games. Getting rid of Fantasy wouldnr make more 40k players, it would just lose players overall and be cause for a great deal of negative publicity. Of course, there are plenty of people including myself who play both, but I would definitely not be as willing to give my money to GW if they had gotten rid of my favorite game.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I am sure it is posdible. However it would be a huge mistake. I prefer Fantasy over 40k, I think that really, everything is better. Rules, armies, Lore, the games. Getting rid of Fantasy wouldnr make more 40k players, it would just lose players overall and be cause for a great deal of negative publicity. Of course, there are plenty of people including myself who play both, but I would definitely not be as willing to give my money to GW if they had gotten rid of my favorite game.

Rules, really? This is the first time I've heard of that...

Yeah, or at least, compared to the current edition. Personally I think there is way too much going on. Dont get me wrong, I like the 40k rules, but there is a great deal of small inbetween type rules. I also dont like the flyers, thats just me.

 Acardia wrote:
In the midwest Fantasy is huge.

At least once a month there is a large 2 day event in a 4-5 hour drive from me. Today I'm driving to one in Chicago that has 90 players. Registration filled up in December.

I have to ask, what LGS do you go to? The GW I used to go to and the FLGS I go to now, Fantasy at best was either having a few player playing it or not at all (then again, this is where I go again I guess)...


To the topic, yeah GW could try to axe and drop the product, but it does have a good investment in it so it would be shooting itself in the foot to the shareholders and competition.

Here's the deal. GW is a corporation. For it to make decisions, they have to make business sense.

Right now it has multiple game products. If you get burnt-out on one game, you can go over to another and still be feeding them $. If you look at peoples' signatures, you will see 40K and Fantasy in the same forums. That is great news for GW. If a bad release of 40K comes out (or WHFB), those players are gone and may not come back if they don't have another game to go to in the same company.

Likewise, they are paying for stores. They are leasing them. Which is a huge cost. They have floor space to fill. They can't go to the mall owners and say, "we'd like to pay 25% less rent because we are no longer using part of our store." That's a fixed price. And I haven't seen many stores that are just dying for space. Gamers don't mind tight corners.

Most importantly is models. We live in a smart fulfillment era. They know what models sell and are back-ordered. Especially with online ordering. I'm pretty certain they don't have 10 warehouses with boxes stacked up to the ceiling, hoping and praying people will order them. They know the hot sellers and which ones are snatched up each month. And when they fall below a certain threshold, they make more. I.e., there isn't a huge cost associated with having a model available because they don't have to store it long.

tl;dr - there is almost no reason to shut it down. The costs have to be > than the profits for them to do so, and at this point that is pretty inconceivable. The crossover ability of players to move from one game to another is a very strong motivator itself. I started with 40K...

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

Vulcan wrote:
Now how 'bout something for those of us who prefer line of battle to skirmish, and prefer fantasy to steampunk?

I recommend you play a game that actually gives you the opportunity to enact linear tactics, changing the scale as well to 10mm or similar in the process. WHFB, while certainly a popular game, is a pretty poor attempt at giving you lines of battle. Most reenactment skirmish battles I attend have more people fighting than there are models in a WHFB battle - WHFB is a skirmish game. And no, 1 model does not represent 10 men under the current ruleset.

Agreed. I would prefer something a little more tactical than the current WFB rules set.

But even with those complaints, it's STILL a better 'line of battle' game than P3's offering, which is strictly a skirmish game with no blocks whatsoever.

I have no complaints with the MECHANICS of Warmachine/Hordes (aside from a total lack of restrictions on maneuver, the ultimate proof it is a skirmish game). It's the FLUFF that puts me off.

 caledoneus wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Sure GW can axe fantasy. And you better believe other companies will move into the void but quick, to pick up all the disgruntled WFB players.

I'm sure Mantic would absolutely love it if they did... b/c all those fantasy players would probably move over to KOW... KOW is actually a pretty fun ruleset to play.

It is debatable how many would switch to a game system that most players have never heard of. Some of the Mantic figures such as the elves are really crap as well.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I am sure it is posdible. However it would be a huge mistake. I prefer Fantasy over 40k, I think that really, everything is better. Rules, armies, Lore, the games. Getting rid of Fantasy wouldnr make more 40k players, it would just lose players overall and be cause for a great deal of negative publicity. Of course, there are plenty of people including myself who play both, but I would definitely not be as willing to give my money to GW if they had gotten rid of my favorite game.

Yeah, the theory seems to be from all the 40k guys that if they axed Fantasy then all the fantasy guys would just jump over to 40k, when in fact, they would more likely jump ship to a rival company (mantic, ect). Axing WHFB would be an absolutely idiotic move, and not very likely..

Exactly, I feel as though that would be most likely to happen, especially with the high prices for 40k, not to say that Fantasy is cheap, but that 40k is more expensive overall, and much greater an investment.

 caledoneus wrote:

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I am sure it is posdible. However it would be a huge mistake. I prefer Fantasy over 40k, I think that really, everything is better. Rules, armies, Lore, the games. Getting rid of Fantasy wouldnr make more 40k players, it would just lose players overall and be cause for a great deal of negative publicity. Of course, there are plenty of people including myself who play both, but I would definitely not be as willing to give my money to GW if they had gotten rid of my favorite game.

Yeah, the theory seems to be from all the 40k guys that if they axed Fantasy then all the fantasy guys would just jump over to 40k, when in fact, they would more likely jump ship to a rival company (mantic, ect). Axing WHFB would be an absolutely idiotic move, and not very likely..

"From all the 40k guys"? Whoa whoa whoa, broad sweeping generalization here much? I personally don't think it's gonna happen either, because players play where their interests lie. If you like medieval stuff, you're gonna go to WHFB. If that gets axed, you'll go to something else similar, not 40k.