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Save 1/3 the price for just less than 2/3 of the book removed, as well as size? Ok, a little overpriced, but if I didn't already have the big book for full price, have bought DV (and given the book to the guy who didn't have one and bought the other half of my box) and needed a rulebool, I could see myself with one.

ids1984 wrote:
I like this, the one in the box set is tatty as a tatty teddy now. I just hope this is updated with FAQ to justify the price rather than a straight re-print.

Doubtful.

 Deadshot wrote:
Save 1/3 the price for just less than 2/3 of the book removed, as well as size? Ok, a little overpriced, but if I didn't already have the big book for full price, have bought DV (and given the book to the guy who didn't have one and bought the other half of my box) and needed a rulebook, I could see myself with one.

Indeed, I noticed that. It's got 163 pages and the main rulebook has 452 pages. From the pictures, it looks like they simply scaled the pages down to suit the smaller format (making the text smaller), so it's close enough to a like-to-like comparison. It may make the rules slightly harder to read and you're getting about 36% of the content in the main rulebook. If they were selling it per page, the cost should have been £16.

Is it a good idea, especially at £30? Probably not. Is the iPad version going to sell really, really well at £20? Probably, especially with all of its linking features and free FAQ insertions (worth the extra £4 in my book, if I had an iPad, bring out a Kindle edition!). It seems to me that this might have flown better as an iPad exclusive, without the hardcover version to take everyone's attention and derision.

On the other hand, the fact that the Rules Only edition exists at all could be considered a step forward, if a slightly unsure one. I've seen the idea for this come up a few times on the forums and of course, GW's competitors have done similar things. Could they actually be looking at the market for ideas? If so, there's hope that they'll get better at this as they go on.

"If you want a 40k rulebook, learn English like the other 50 GW-customers still buying stuff."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=10600062

States available in android and kindle format as well, happy?

Also states all updated errata and FAQs included.

ids1984 wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=10600062

States available in android and kindle format as well, happy?

Also states all updated errata and FAQs included.

Yes! Happy! *giggles maniacally* And for £20 on something that weighs less than a coffee cup! How can you go wrong?

Aren't like 200 pages in the big rulebook useless random pictures of random dudes in all the dozend different armies? Who actually looks more than once at those?

Why do people need a portable version of the rules anyway? Once you learn the rules you only need a crib sheet of tables and basic reminders, which I assume they still supply.

You own codex, I can see the point in keeping that with you, but the main rules can be left behind.

Ah well... it's bound to sell them a few more copies of Dark Vengeance. Our copy cost us around £10 once we'd sold off the other bits. And we got a free piece of whippy red plastic too.

What gets me about GW is that other companies would charge £29 for their cash cows. But they have to have that extra quid, for that reassuringly expensive feel.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why do people need a portable version of the rules anyway? Once you learn the rules you only need a crib sheet of tables and basic reminders, which I assume they still supply.

You own codex, I can see the point in keeping that with you, but the main rules can be left behind.

And what happens if you have a rules debate or play at a GW? Or are you one of these guys who "doesn't need a rulebook because I know the rules make me rolfstomp you?"

It look like a rulebook version of a special edition.

This book is £35 for 168 pages, while the £45 has 452 pages.

Why would you buy this? It's ludicrous considering you can get the small book for just under £10 on eBay.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why do people need a portable version of the rules anyway? Once you learn the rules you only need a crib sheet of tables and basic reminders, which I assume they still supply.

You own codex, I can see the point in keeping that with you, but the main rules can be left behind.

And what happens if you have a rules debate or play at a GW? Or are you one of these guys who "doesn't need a rulebook because I know the rules make me rolfstomp you?"

That is why when there is a rules issue, the best thing to do is roll a d6. On a 4+ you decide to go with "option (a)", and on a 1-3 you go with "option (b)". How hard is it? You guys make playing these games way too complicated.

How about when the other person is genuinely wrong.about the way a rule works or something sounds like cheating? If its an ambigious rule then fine, roll off. Bring a rulebook.

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:
Some people just can't be pleased people constantly complain about not having a mini rule book not having quality rule books so GW puts out what seems to be a good quality mini rule book and people still complain that now it costs too much. REALLY!!! What do you want them to do give it away no one said this hobby is cheap you really need to decide what you really want but please stop complaining about EVERYTHING!!

Because I believe the price unreasonable due to it being £10 less than a hard back book with double the pages does not mean I want it to be free.

KirbyFan wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why do people need a portable version of the rules anyway? Once you learn the rules you only need a crib sheet of tables and basic reminders, which I assume they still supply.

You own codex, I can see the point in keeping that with you, but the main rules can be left behind.

And what happens if you have a rules debate or play at a GW? Or are you one of these guys who "doesn't need a rulebook because I know the rules make me rolfstomp you?"

That is why when there is a rules issue, the best thing to do is roll a d6. On a 4+ you decide to go with "option (a)", and on a 1-3 you go with "option (b)". How hard is it? You guys make playing these games way too complicated.

I know about this rule (let the dice decide) but really... Is it too much to ask to get 2 minutes to check up on a rule? Because otherwise I could be making up rules as I want and get away with it 50% of the time.

OT: Couldn't they just sell the DV-Rulebook? This is just getting ridiculous.

steelshark83 wrote:

OT: Couldn't they just sell the DV-Rulebook? This is just getting ridiculous.

Having all the written material published in hardcover, full-colour format seems to be GW's newest 'shtick' to emphasize their 'premium' image. Personally I think it's a mistake - having your main rulebook, maybe even codices in 'premium' (and accordingly more expensive) format is OK, having every book that way just means that players are discouraged to buy them since merely getting all necessary literature to play is expensive.

I guess next step is hard-cover White Dwarf?

That said, I don't see where the complaints about this book are coming from - I think the book is quite useful for players who are returning to 40k from previous editions and don't need the fluff/art/etc of the big rulebook, plus the small book is easier to carry around. Many people would rather pay bit extra for convenience of getting the book right now, rather than wading through ebay and all the associated hassle it brings.

Any word btw if this edition is internally exact copy of DV book, or does it conform to latest errata?

KirbyFan wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why do people need a portable version of the rules anyway? Once you learn the rules you only need a crib sheet of tables and basic reminders, which I assume they still supply.

You own codex, I can see the point in keeping that with you, but the main rules can be left behind.

And what happens if you have a rules debate or play at a GW? Or are you one of these guys who "doesn't need a rulebook because I know the rules make me rolfstomp you?"

That is why when there is a rules issue, the best thing to do is roll a d6. On a 4+ you decide to go with "option (a)", and on a 1-3 you go with "option (b)". How hard is it? You guys make playing these games way too complicated.

That isn't a very good point. Your opponent shouldn't be able to pass his FNP rolls on a 4+ just cos you rolled badly.

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:
Some people just can't be pleased people constantly complain about not having a mini rule book not having quality rule books so GW puts out what seems to be a good quality mini rule book and people still complain that now it costs too much. REALLY!!! What do you want them to do give it away no one said this hobby is cheap you really need to decide what you really want but please stop complaining about EVERYTHING!!

Because when people say "mini rulebook" they mean cheap rulebook.

Not "small but still remarkably expensive" rulebook.

As a point of order, a lot of games companies do give their rules away, and all of them sell the books for less than the GW equivalents, frequently with higher page counts and comparable production values.

Fair enough you don't want a high quality book that you have to pay more for, unfortunately it seems GW is trying to out out higher quality products. I honestly think this is an attempt to put out nice products that yes you may have to pay more for but are better quality,and it is cheaper than the main rule book so I don't see how it is "remarkably expensive". Oh and on your point of order I am aware of those games that give away rules in my opinion there play settings background/fluff or rules are lacking, but hey if you prefer that than fine go play those games no one is making you buy GW products.

I do play those games, you know what? I play 40K as well!

(Somewhere in North America, there is a small popping sound as Blackraven's mind is blown)

Something can be overpriced while simultaneously being cheaper than something else, you get that right? Otherwise the only thing that could ever be considered overpriced is the thing that was on sale for the most amount of money in the world at any one time. My point, was, and remains, that they have massively misjudged the market for a small, no frills rulebook, and instead have produced a "premium" product that nobody was asking for.

You've clearly been kicking around the forum for a while, so I'm surprised that you feel that "if you don't like it you don't have to buy it" is a valid argument in any way shape or form. That is pretty much implicit in, well, everything that is offered for sale in the world.

I don't like this, I won't be buying it, I am one of the overwhelming majority of 40K players who already has a rulebook to suit my needs (again, do this when the new edition comes out, why wait a year?) I find many of GW offerings these days to not be of sufficient quality to justify the price (note, not the same thing as too expensive, I have no problem spending the actual cash on miniatures, but if I'm going to spend a lot in a model, a company like Mierce producing some jaw dropping stuff are always going to beat the latest Tonka toy offering that GW have been churning out recently, YMMV.)

By contrast, I am seriously considering a LE SM codex when they launch. I am under no illusion that they're good value, but as the basic books are already so expensive, and I need one if I wish to keep using the army, all I really have to justify to myself is the difference in cost, and while by no means cut and dried, my affection for my favourite Chapter is such that it is a consideration.

So I'm not some non-GW buying "hater" who needs to feth off and play the games that you seem to think are inferior in a corner out the way somewhere. If I see them doing something good I will praise it, if they release something that my desire to own is higher than the inevitable steep price tag, I will buy it. If they do something daft, I will criticise it, if they release something apparently pointless (like this rulebook) I will query it.

The pity is, there are posters who have a similar attitude to GW on this board that you appear to, and despite my efforts to try and explain where I stand, I have a feeling that for someone who is apparently a big fan, history tells me it will just too complex for you to compute from your perspective.

Well the i pad version is such a good deal. Hell all i need to do now is go spend £500 plus on an iPad and i can get gw books yippee

It seems like we had this discussion recently...

<rummages around with the search function, ah! there it is>

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/541656.page

A month ago, when we saw the list with August's releases, we were tantalized with "WH40K Gamers edition mini-rulebook" Ah! Gamer's Edition, those get bundled with extras, there is no way they would just sell the DV book at $50. Ah, the halcyon days of July, we were so young and naive then...

Snark aside, I think there still is a place for this book. While I would have preferred a lower price point with a softcover, there are some perks to this format. For books that see a lot of use (like the rules that get chucked into your bag every time you head out) hardcovers to wear longer then paperbacks. A gimmicky as it seems, I like the triple bookmarks. Sure, I could use scraps of paper to mark my place, but this way I can have one on the mission we are playing, one of the psychic powers page, and one more to float around. And not worry about them slipping out. One of the perks of a paper book over an e-book is the ease of flipping back and forth between sections. This is very nice when looking at the interaction of multiple rules in different locations, a frequent occasion in 40k.

Obviously it's not going to be for everyone. If you are willing to hit e-bay, the DV books is still going to be your low cost option for the rules. But if you are not, this is the next best thing (assuming you don't play DA/Chaos) I'm not going to buy one, I have the big book. But I'm glad they made it. Some people will get a lot of use out of it.

If the current trend goes on, Codex Sororitas will be mail order only, English only as well.
Because GW's target customer is the 13 year old with double income, no kids ... and perfect knowledge of the English language

 Kroothawk wrote:
If the current trend goes on, Codex Sororitas will be mail order only, English only as well.
Because GW's target customer is the 13 year old with double income, no kids ... and perfect knowledge of the English language

You forgot strictly limited to 12 copies worldwide and £275!

 Deadshot wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why do people need a portable version of the rules anyway? Once you learn the rules you only need a crib sheet of tables and basic reminders, which I assume they still supply.

You own codex, I can see the point in keeping that with you, but the main rules can be left behind.

And what happens if you have a rules debate or play at a GW? Or are you one of these guys who "doesn't need a rulebook because I know the rules make me rolfstomp you?"

better what happens when you just don't learn all the rules because you have a life, job, kids, other games, school, or just things to do... and don't play every weekend, every month...

While I know the rules, sometimes i forget something, or somethign i don't use (for whatever reason because of my army) comes up and i want to know how it works...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Motograter wrote:
Well the i pad version is such a good deal. Hell all i need to do now is go spend £500 plus on an iPad and i can get gw books yippee

good news, in the next MAC OS update you'll be able to read ibooks as well, so now you have options! (or you can get the epub version for whatever else you want to see it on (and the mini is 246 and the ipad 399)

And this, to me, says allot about what people want and why GW ignore them. The book seems a reasonable price to me for what it is. A high quality hard back book in trade hard back size. A similar size novel on low quality paper is £20-£25. This is on high quality gloss paper with high quality print. £30 seems like the correct price for what it is.

Wether it is the correct format is another matter. For me it is. I like hard back books, but then I can see why people were wanting soft back.

 Steve steveson wrote:
And this, to me, says allot about what people want and why GW ignore them. The book seems a reasonable price to me for what it is. A high quality hard back book in trade hard back size. A similar size novel on low quality paper is £20-£25. This is on high quality gloss paper with high quality print. £30 seems like the correct price for what it is.

Wether it is the correct format is another matter. For me it is. I like hard back books, but then I can see why people were wanting soft back.

But the problem is, it's only £10 more for a book of the exact same quality, and almost double the pages.

Well I must admit i did not for one minute think that they would release a small cheap version of the rulebook available on its own.
It looks small enough to throw in your bag and its much more hard wearing that the DV one, Its not for me as I dont play much but I know a couple of people with torn DV rulebooks that will be interested in it I bet. Its cheaper than buying DV or the BRB so I dont really see a problem.

 Rayvon wrote:
Well I must admit i did not for one minute think that they would release a small cheap version of the rulebook available on its own.
It looks small enough to throw in your bag and its much more hard wearing that the DV one, Its not for me as I dont play much but I know a couple of people with torn DV rulebooks that will be interested in it I bet. Its cheaper than buying DV or the BRB so I dont really see a problem.

Well, you can buy the Dark Vengeance rule book from eBay for (generally) under £15. This is double that price. It's also only £10 under the BRB which has double the pages and is of the same standard and quality.

 Steve steveson wrote:
And this, to me, says allot about what people want and why GW ignore them. The book seems a reasonable price to me for what it is. A high quality hard back book in trade hard back size. A similar size novel on low quality paper is £20-£25. This is on high quality gloss paper with high quality print. £30 seems like the correct price for what it is.

Wether it is the correct format is another matter. For me it is. I like hard back books, but then I can see why people were wanting soft back.

Find me a regular 168 page hardback novel on sale for £20-25.

I always have to smile at the "but I have to spend $500 on an iPad to use it" comments. This is apparently a big secret, but the iPad (or any other tablet for that matter) can do a lot more than simply display ebooks.

Honestly, I rarely use our home PC anymore. When I'm home, I use one of our tablets almost exclusively for we browsing, gaming, etc.